It's not that I don't think marijuana is harmful. I was looking for a support of your statement "weed is like smoking cigs only worse...."

Somehting like a double blind medical study put out by doctors, not a rehab center that has a financial interest in painting worse case scenarios for drug use.

Health_Concerns: WHAT ARE THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE?

I must preface these statements with the remark that there is still a great deal of research to be done concerning the effects of marijuana on the health of humans due to the fact that widespread marijuana use has only become prevalent in this country within the last three decades, so the effects of long-term use are just beginning to become apparent. I should also add that in making these observations, I have concentrated on the risks of smoking natural marijuana, since it is the most effective method of ingesting its active cannabinoids.

Marijuana has often been touted as one of the safest recreational substances available. This is perhaps true; many reputable scientific studies support the conclusion that cocaine, heroine, alcohol, and even cigarettes are more dangerous to the user’s health than marijuana. In addition, the celebrated pharmacological properties of cannabis have led thirty-six states to permit its use as a therapeutic drug for, among others, those suffering from AIDS; various painful, incurable and debilitating illnesses; the harmful side effects of cancer chemotherapy, and glaucoma. Additional research is being conducted concerning the use of marijuana on the treatment of anxiety and mental disorders.

Nonetheless, it would be fallacious to conclude that because the chemicals in marijuana have been found to present fewer dangers than some very harmful substances, the medical or recreational use of marijuana is perfectly safe. In a recreational context, marijuana has been shown to affect health, brain function, and memory. And in a medical context, marijuana is like any other powerful prescription drug: it has potentially dangerous side effects, and the decision to use it to treat patients must involve the same balancing test as the one required for chemotherapy or AZT: do the therapeutic effects of the drug outweigh its harmful effects? Though there are many more studies to be done on this issue, current data shows that the answer to this question may not always be "yes."



EFFECTS OF HABITUAL MARIJUANA USE ON THE IMMUNE SYSTEM

The most potent argument against the use of marijuana to treat medical disorders is that marijuana may cause the acceleration or aggravation of the very disorders it is being used to treat.

Smoking marijuana regularly (a joint a day) can damage the cells in the bronchial passages which protect the body against inhaled microorganisms and decrease the ability of the immune cells in the lungs to fight off fungi, bacteria, and tumor cells. For patients with already weakened immune systems, this means an increase in the possibility of dangerous pulmonary infections, including pneumonia, which often proves fatal in AIDS patients.

Studies further suggest that marijuana is a general "immunosuppressant" whose degenerative influence extends beyond the respiratory system. Regular smoking has been shown to materially affect the overall ability of the smoker’s body to defend itself against infection by weakening various natural immune mechanisms, including macrophages (a.k.a. "killer cells") and the all-important T-cells. Obviously, this suggests the conclusion, which is well-supported by scientific studies, that the use of marijuana as a medical therapy can and does have a very serious negative effect on patients with pre-existing immune deficits resulting from AIDS, organ transplantation, or cancer chemotherapy, the very conditions for which marijuana has most often been touted and suggested as a treatment. It has also been shown that marijuana use can accelerate the progression of HIV to full-blown AIDS and increase the occurrence of infections and Kaposi’s sarcoma. In addition, patients with weak immune systems will be even less able to defend themselves against the various respiratory cancers and conditions to which consistent marijuana use has been linked, and which are discussed briefly under "Respiratory Illnesses."

In conclusion, it seems that the potential dangers presented by the medical use of marijuana may actually contribute to the dangers of the diseases which it would be used to combat. Therefore, I suggest that marijuana should not be permitted as a therapy, at least until a good deal more conclusive research has been completed concerning its debilitating effect on the immune system.

For more on this topic, please see Donald P. Tashkin, M.D., "Effects of Marijuana on the Lung and Its Immune Defenses," Secretary's Youth Substance Abuse Prevention Intiative: Resource Papers, March 1997, Center for Substance Abuse Prevention. Pages 33-51 of this address can be found at the website of the Indiana Prevention Resource Center at Indiana University, located at http://www.drugs.indiana.edu/druginfo/tashkin- marijuana.html.



RESPIRATORY ILLNESSES

The main respiratory consequences of smoking marijuana regularly (one joint a day) are pulmonary infections and respiratory cancer, whose connection to marijuana use has been strongly suggested but not conclusively proven. The effects also include chronic bronchitis, impairment in the function of the smaller air passages, inflammation of the lung, the development of potentially pre-cancerous abnormalities in the bronchial lining and lungs, and, as discussed, a reduction in the capabilities of many defensive mechanisms within the lungs.

Marijuana smoke and cigarette smoke contain many of the same toxins, including one which has been identified as a key factor in the promotion of lung cancer. This toxin is found in the tar phase of both, and it should be noted that one joint has four times more tar than a cigarette, which means that the lungs are exposed four-fold to this toxin and others in the tar. It has been concretely established that smoking cigarettes promotes lung cancer (which causes more than 125,000 deaths in the US every year), chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (chronic bronchitis and emphysema) and increased incidence of respiratory tract infections. This implies, but does not establish, that smoking marijuana may lead to some of the same results as smoking cigarettes. It is notable that several reports indicate an unexpectedly large proportion ofmarijuana users among cases of lung cancer and cancers of the oral cavity,pharynx, and larynx. Thus, it appears that the use of marijuana as a medicine has the potential to further harm an already ill patient in the same way that taking up regular cigarette smoking would, particularly in light of the fact that those patients for whom marijuana is recommended are already poorly equipped to fight off these infections and diseases.

For more information, please see the Tashkin website mentioned at the end of the section on immune disorders. See also:

www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/mrr/ 21.96.10.html, for information on the link between chemicals contained in marijuana and lung cancer.
http://www.marijuananews.com/latest_resear..._that_heavy.htm, for an article concerning the link between marijuana and cancer, with commentary


MENTAL HEALTH, BRAIN FUNCTION, AND MEMORY

It has been suggested that marijuana is at the root of many mental disorders, including acute toxic psychosis, panic attacks (one of the very conditions it is being used experimentally to treat), flashbacks, delusions, depersonalization, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, and uncontrollable aggressiveness. Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia. This connection with mental illness should make health care providers for terminally ill patients and the patients themselves, who may already be suffering from some form of clinical depression, weigh very carefully the pros and cons of adopting a therapeutic course of marijuana.

In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.

In addition, marijuana use has many indirect effects on health. Its effect on coordination, perception, and judgment means that it causes a number of accidents, vehicular and otherwise.

For further information, you may find the following sites helpful:

www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/reality/updatejl.html, for information on links between marijuana use and mental health risks.
www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/mrr/21.96.10.html, for more information on the indirect effects of marijuana on health
http://www.adf.org.au/drughit, the Australian Drug Foundation’s website
http://marijuananews.com/a_safe_ high_.htm, a reprint of New Science magazine’s "Marijuana Special Report: A Safe High?" with commentary
http://marijuananews.com/claim_four.htm, an article about the similarity of long-term marijuana use’s effect on the brain to that of "hard" drugs, with commentary
www.drugs.indiana.edu/publications/iprc/misc/smokescreen.html, for general information on the health risks of marijuana.
http://www.health.org, the homepage of the National Clearinghouse on Alcohol and Drug Information, for general information on marijuana.


http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/ma...a/Health_1.html

Trust the chemist. He knows of what he speaks.

Nicotine itself doesn't do anything except act as a stimualnt in your body-- no lung damage. But, if you burn anything and inhale it, you get sick lungs. Commercial cigarrettes have various chemicals in them that make them perfect nicotine delivery vehicles, so yes, they are "worse" than plain-ole-weed, but if you think ganja's harmless because it's natural, you're fooling yourself.

shut up


and you are correct dir

its impossible to get most of those affects because you can't smoke weed fast enough.

My feelings on this subject are best expressed here.

i've never heard of any one saying damm i got this bad cough from smoking weed

damm i ruined my lungs and got cancer from smoking weed

jerry garcia, bob marley come to mind.

Now, I didn't see the autopsy report, and not to bust yer stones, Fraz, but I would guess that the heroin had more to do with Jerry's death than the weed.

And as for Marley, I imagine the couple of bullets fired at high velocity into his body had more to do with his demise than the ganja.

And as for Marley, I imagine the couple of bullets fired at high velocity into his body had more to do with his demise than the ganja.
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Actually, Bob Marley died of cancer, which started in his toe of all places...But you are right, he was shot, but did not die as a result of thise wounds...

Source: <-----Click here....

Huh. Coulda sworn he was killed in a weird shooting. Was that Jimmy Cliff then?

Well, at least I was saying that puff for puff weed is probably as bad as tobacco. Most stoners don't smoke 20 joints a day.

But that doesn't mean that a joint isn't worse than a cigarette, just that a joint isn't as bad as two dozen cigarettes.

Bob Marley died of cancer @ Cedars of Lebanon hospital in miami in '81 or '82. I used to work there, back in to early 80's.

Yes, Garcia did many drugs, but smoked more weed than the average joe. I believe his cause of death was cancer too... no ?

At any rate..... I'm just trying to support the forum that weed ain't good for 'ya either.

I had enough on this subject, good luck Frazia

Surely, it's not good for you, but I don't really think it is all that bad, unless you're blazing up like a Rastafarian. It's a question of Quantity. I'd much rather give up the Cowboy Killer Marlboro Reds that I smoke 20+ of per day, than the 2-5 bealers I blaze up, water-cooled and filtered, etc.

I am really not trying to be contentious about this at all. Seriously, I wish you all the best in trying to quit smokes/ganja/crappy diet, and all that. I really do understand how hard it can hit you as a wake-up call when something like this happens to a close friend. I hope you are able to capitalize on the fear/shock, and structure a new routine that becomes second-nature for you.

Me, personally, I am not sweating the weed, just because I suck in more chemicals driving than I do smoking dope, on average.

All good McN. Very much appreciate the input, dude. Personally, I see myself indulging the weed on & off for a while.

I'm just feel'in abit inadequate here tonight as I babysit the 3 & 9 year old kids of my buddy.

An FYI....... since I posted this mess this afternoon.... I haven't smoked a single grit. My teeth are grinding........ just chewed Mrs. Fraz's ass for nothing in particular and am ready to take someones head off @ the first opportunity.

hopefully tommorrow will be a better day.

Amen.

If you would like answers that make sense try some of the
information here heartcenteronline.com

Plus, attending Eagles games is alot more harmful to your health than any of the chemicals you mentioned above...

I don't doubt that smoking weed can have harmful effects on the body. But so do cigarettes, alcohol, and a number of other things that are legal. That's what I don't get. I guess it is because the pot lobbyists are not as powerful as the tobacco and alcohol lobbyists.

And for those who do not know - (1) I don't smoke weed and have no desire to do so, and (2) I think all of the abovementioned things shouls be legal.

Try the Nicorette, Frazia. I quit smoking about four years ago and the gum really helped. And drink lots of water. Don't know if it helps to flush the nicotine out or something, but for the first few days, when the cravings were killers, I'd drink a tall glass of cold water every time I wanted a smoke.
The gum will give you the nicotine when you HAVE to have it, but be careful - I had a buddy who had a hard time putting down the gum when he quit.

Not to mention the country could pay off the deficit with all the
money they could make legalizing, and controlling, marijuana.

What's it matter to you? You're living on borrowed time as it is.

Perhaps I should take my doctors advice and start taking cholesteral medication.

Obviously, alcohol and cigarettes cause much much much more harm to us than weed. We have made public policy decisions that some drugs should be legal while others are outlawed. Why pot never made the legal list, I dont know. But then again, I believe all drugs should be legal. Legality and health issues are not related apparently, because if that were true, alcohol and tobacco would be at the top of the illegal list.

I never felt very good physically when I smoked weed. It made me feel unhealthy. That doesnt mean I was actually harming myself, but I sort of intuitively felt like I wasnt doing something good for my body. And my eating habits were abysmal after I smoked a big fatty. it would be nothing for me to eat a whole box of cereal or a 1/2 gallon of ice cream. The munchies are incredible..

True dat. And the second hand effects suck for other people around you.

That's WHY it matters! BTW...if you need it, get it now.

Do it. It's one of the few things I have done to get my ass to live longer. Lipitor and others similar to it are incredible drugs. The only drawback to them is possible liver damage. You get tested for that prior to getting a prescription..... and then are given the appropriate dose & type.

And you need follow-ups every 3-6 months. Mine went from 286 to 197 in 6 months. Always had a high HDL, which is good. DO IT Wiegie.

Speaking of health concerns, since I am over 40 I need to start getting the finger wave with my physical. I have never had the finger wave, ur, well, other for recreational purposes. Thankfully, my doc has never brought up the topic yet...

started that humbling procedure two years ago. Both prostate & colonoscopy.

hope for someone gentle

Gulp! My general practicer is a 6'2" dyke named Dr. Butch Payne...

And make sure that both of his hands are NOT on your shoulders during the exam.

Oops.

every liquid is potentially a solvent depending on what you're trying to solvate. Ethanol is partially hydrophobic (greasy), but it is also water soluble. Fat is totally hydrophobic (greasy) and, thus, totally insoluble in water. Ethanol can probably dissolve a little bit of fat, but it definitely won't be tremendously useful in dissolving your artery fat unless you drink tons of it, which of course yields its own problems.

Diet, exercise, die anyway.

True dat.

Unfortunately, I have not attended an Eagle's game in a while. And the last one I went to wasn't in Philly.

Of course, when I do go to Eagles' games, I wear my battery-proof parka, brass knuckles, Desert Eagle .45 and a back-up .380 in my sock. Once you have the necessities, it's easy to kick back and enjoy.

you forgot the part about her having knuckles like an elephant

Yeah, and no matter what she tells you,

"Gloves are NOT optional-- they are standard.
Oh, and one finger is the rule."

Don't they have non-invasive (no finger in the ass for those with lower IQ's) exams nowadays? I mean, unless y'all like getting a finger in the old bunghole.

all you young'ins obviously haven't had the pleasure yet. A colonoscopy is much more than a finger or even bloody knuckles........ It's a probe with a fiberoptic camera that examines for pollips deep, deep, deep inside. Then if they find 'em.......... they scrape.

It's truly one of the most uncomfortable procedures there is........ but necessary considering how many men (and women) die of colon cancer annually.

I'm not even gonna get into the prostate probing on the other end..... which is much more painful than uncomfortable.

They can do blood work to check for PSA (Prostate Specific Antigen?) which is a reliable marker for cancer growth.

But there are more things that can go wrong with that tricky little gland than just cancer. The finger check is still pretty standard, as far as I know. BPH (Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia) is really common, and can't be detected thru blood work. Apparently, it hurts like a mofo, too.

I am no expert on this, though, still only 34, and have yet to experience the pleasure (knock wood).

That is, without a doubt, my least favorite case to assist on. Everyone who comes in is drugged up real good with Versed, which keeps you from remembering what happened, but it also lowers the inhibitions, so people can howl like banshees when the scope goes in-- especially at the turn of the sigmoid colon!


The worst part is when someone comes in who has not adequately prepped for their procedure-- You have to go 24 without eating and do a flush with laxatives, and then a couple of enemas, to make sure that there's no, ummm, roadblocks. Well, when you do the procedure, you pump CO2 into the colon to inflate it to make room for the sheath and the scope.

I'll leave it to your imagination what happens when somebody has skimped on their prep and then comes in and gets their Intestines pumped full of CO2, let's just say, you'll never forget to wear goggles, or a gown, or a mask, or a hat, or protective booties, or gloves, or anything, once you've seen this happen.

...

:williesgraemlin:

where's polksalet, anyway?

Ecstacy, how old are you??

It will get easier i am now on 9 weeks smoke free, it eases up after a while.

spain is also 41 with 2 young children.