Big Country Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 You are still getting way too much for the 4 spot drop. A standard trade would be to swap the firsts, then you give your 3rd for his 2nd and them another move later on, like your 6th for his 5th. To gain an extra 2nd and 4th rounder and only give up a 6th is still a steal for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 (edited) I commend you on your willingness to try and do the right thing and you are moving in the right direction. Certainly the deal you have offered is better than the last one. But I bet 999 owners out of 1000 would drop from 1.01 to 1.05 and give their 6th rounder to get an extra 2nd and 4th rounder (with the one owner being the one you are trading with). You get 1.05, 2.08, 2.12, 4.08, 4.12, 5.08, 7.08 he gets 1.01, 3.01, 5.01, 6.08, 6.12, 7.01 Not only does he lose a pick in the first 5 rounds he only gets 3 picks out of the first 49. Bottom line ... he shouldn't have to LOSE any picks in the first 6 rounds. Edited August 9, 2005 by Grits and Shins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 He is giving picks 5, 20 and 44 valued at 3339 For picks 1 and 72 valued at 2273 http://www.footballguys.com/pickvalue.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weasel Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 so he gave up a 2nd and 3rd round pick for your first. Wow, if I were in your league, i would also complain. You have got to serioulsy ask yourself that as commish, would you have vetoed this trade, if you were not involved. The fact that these are "only" picks, does not mean that it is a free for all. Anytime there is a player/commis, there should be a system that checks trades made by the commish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 The trade (as is) is being voted on and there are 7 votes so far 4 yes and 3 no. I did talk to some owners and told them about the other deal with the 2nd and 4th round and they said that deal is a lot better then the 2nd and 3rd round picks. If this one gets voted down then I will try the 2nd and 4th round. I really want to thank all you guys that took the time to post on this subject . Lots of good insight and help. Thanks again and I will keep you guys posted as to what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsbennett Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 (edited) OK here's the deal. I had the overall #1 pick in a 12 man redraft league basic scroing (QB does get 6 pts for a TD pass) serpentine style draft. The guy with the 5th pick wanted the #1 pick to get Manning. So, I traded him the 1st pick and he gave me his 2nd and 3rd round picks for my 4th and 5th round picks. That gives me 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. Now some of the guys in the league are saying it's an unfair trade and want to vote it down. Im the commish and I am going to let the trade go on. It's draft picks not players. I think each guy should be able to will and deal draft picks as he sees fit. I did offer the 1st pick up for a trade and no one else wanted to do it. What's your take on this trade? 915920[/snapback] I just experienced a much uglier trade than this deal in a league (twice!...by the same team) Now the whole league is screwed before training camp gets going for a week. The trade you describe isn't nearly as unfair, imo....although I'd love to put together 5 picks in 3 rds...I've seen far worse, but then I only join leagues with active owners or commish veto power...In my personal leagues, I keep veto power if there is any question about league ownership. Edited August 9, 2005 by marsbennett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 The first trade was vetoed by a vote of 7-5. I have now put up the new trade where I give up the 1st overall pick and get the 2nd and 4th round pick from the other guy. He gets my 6th and 8th round picks. I think this trade is much better then the first one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 The first trade was vetoed by a vote of 7-5. I have now put up the new trade where I give up the 1st overall pick and get the 2nd and 4th round pick from the other guy. He gets my 6th and 8th round picks. I think this trade is much better then the first one. 918654[/snapback] Better yes. Close to fair.. No. You move up 4 entire rounds TWICE to only take a 4 spot drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Better yes. Close to fair.. No. You move up 4 entire rounds TWICE to only take a 4 spot drop. 918995[/snapback] :nods head: Yup has this guy bent over the table and is going to give it to him one way or another and then justify it to us saying he really wanted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 The more I think about it, the more I would NOT do this trade. Educate this coach. FF should be more about fun than money, and I just wouldn't be having fun if it were THAT easy to rip people off in my league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 :nods head: Yup has this guy bent over the table and is going to give it to him one way or another and then justify it to us saying he really wanted it. 919062[/snapback] Dude, you've already set the tone of trying to make a one-sided trade to win an unfair advantage. Let it go, and hope it goes away. The more you push this, the more people will complain... in this case, rightfully so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGameTime Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Well I'm a fellow Commish as well! But I also think the other owner is an idiot! but ole well! Sorry for him and sorry for them! The only reason you should even think about changing thinks is if your concerned that other owners would feel like your cheating! If you don't feel that would happen cool! I have folks in line to play in my league but I the same time I'm lucky we have trades but know one ids that stupid! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sac_intimidators Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 great letter and i think you laid it down on a good note and explained it plain and simple. Just cause you and chris have the balls to make this trade ; they will think twice if they should of made a trade with you. What i suggest is that next season (if you dont already have them) make a pamphlet explaining not just the rules of scoring but trading as well. This same issue came up with my league at the end of last year. Most of my main players were injured by week three ; so i gave up which i should not have but i did and traded J.lewis and my 4th and 8th pick for this year for this guy in my leagues worst player and his 1 and 3 for this year . Turns out that the trade really paid off for me cause i came in last and now have the #1 overall pick but the guy i trade with came in 2nd to last behind me and that means i get his picks for this year. Now i have #1 and #2 overall picks and this is not a serpentine draft it is your standard nfl like draft with a 12 man league. i will be in the same boat as you. i will have picks by the 3rd round and he will only have one. Because of this trade my commish has changed the rules that there is to be no trading of picks until after our 2nd redraft which is after the 8th week. Only trading of players. Good luck don't over analyze with all those draft picks . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Update. The first trade was voted down as I said before. The new trade was voted on by the league and passed with 83% of the league voting yes. I give up the 1st overall pick and drop to 5th in the draft. I get his 2nd and 4th round picks and he gets my 6th and 8th round picks. The league didnt have a problem with this trade. I took a full day and sent all the owners a rulebook. THey get to make changes to the rules and then we vote on them as a league. I covered everything from trades to tie breakers. I left no stone unturned. I like the rulebook and I think it will help our league a lot. Thanks for all the posts you guys made on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 It will be interesting to see if your league survives you raping this other owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Update. The first trade was voted down as I said before. The new trade was voted on by the league and passed with 83% of the league voting yes. The league didnt have a problem with this trade. 920995[/snapback] Seems to me 17% of the league had a problem with it. Your role as commish has been compromised IMO, and if you do win I doubt you'll look back and remember it as a fun year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardrocker Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 (edited) It will be interesting to see if your league survives you raping this other owner. 921021[/snapback] The votes are in and your deal has passed. Congratulations. As Commissioner you have a duty to see beyond your good fortune as an owner. In the league I run our constitution says that the Commisioners job is not to prevent your stupidity but to view what is best for the league. This deal is lets say the equivalent to the Cowboys Vikings deal where they traded Herschel Walker...or say the Ditka trade of his entire draft for Ricky Williams. The NFL did not overturn either of these moves...so you can say that there is precident as commisioner to let this go. What I think Grits is trying to politely tell you is that YOU cannot do this deal. The NFL did not overturn either of the above trades, but they did NOT directly participate either. In my league if two teams did this I would strongly advise the parties to rework it, but if both teams said they believed in what they were doing, I would allow it to go through. I could NOT look my fellow owners in the eye, if I were involved in this deal. The Commish just cant do this to the league. Especially a young league. In my league, in 5 yrs there have been two trades that were nixed. BOTH were mine, and both were deals where there was simply too much inequity in the EYES of the league. That is a price you pay as Commish. I commend your efforts here to seek other opinions. I also can see why you want to cash the lottery ticket you are being given as an owner. Grits is giving you VERY VERY good advice. If you care about your league...follow it. Good Luck. Edited August 11, 2005 by Hardrocker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Itals Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Seems to me 17% of the league had a problem with it. Your role as commish has been compromised IMO, and if you do win I doubt you'll look back and remember it as a fun year. 921031[/snapback] Hey, I've had a number of problems with decisions made by a commisioner in the past. As long as that decision was made on the up and up, and wasn't personal, you've got to respect the commish's power and move on. I don't know to many leagues where 100% agreement is reached on every/any issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 SO, I should not take this deal because Im the commish? It would be ok to take it if I were not the commish? This was put up for a vote and it passed. I DIDNT VOTE for my own trade. The league decided to let this pass. The majority of the votes were to allow it to pass. What else can I do? What 2 players that I would get in the 2nd and 4th round that would equal the points Manning will get? I did all I could be to make this fair with giving up Manning with the 1st pick. The league voted on it and it passed. I didnt get any negative feed back on this deal like I did with the first deal. I agree the first deal was bad and it was voted down by the league. I have a team like eveyone else and I'm just trying to improve my chances to win like everyone else. Because Im the commish I should not take certain deals or trades even after the league voted to pass them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Hey, I've had a number of problems with decisions made by a commisioner in the past. As long as that decision was made on the up and up, and wasn't personal, you've got to respect the commish's power and move on. I don't know to many leagues where 100% agreement is reached on every/any issue. 921095[/snapback] I understand, but this is round two of one that was overturned. Sucks to be king sometimes, and as commish you have two roles as a player and a peacekeeper. It's always fun to chuck a newbie in the shark tank and see who gets the biggest advantage, but if that advantage is too great it puts a dark cloud over the season before it starts. The league won't last if the commish can't be trusted. I'm not saying this isn't all on the up and up, as it's been put to a vote, but if you were playing against that advantage, I can see your grapes turning sour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFFL Chump Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 SO, I should not take this deal because Im the commish? It would be ok to take it if I were not the commish? This was put up for a vote and it passed. I DIDNT VOTE for my own trade. The league decided to let this pass. The majority of the votes were to allow it to pass. What else can I do? What 2 players that I would get in the 2nd and 4th round that would equal the points Manning will get? I did all I could be to make this fair with giving up Manning with the 1st pick. The league voted on it and it passed. I didnt get any negative feed back on this deal like I did with the first deal. I agree the first deal was bad and it was voted down by the league. I have a team like eveyone else and I'm just trying to improve my chances to win like everyone else. Because Im the commish I should not take certain deals or trades even after the league voted to pass them? 921148[/snapback] All I can think is you might as well start looking for someone to replace the 17% that didn't like the trade........... If you win the league this year it will be more........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Furley Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 SO, I should not take this deal because Im the commish? It would be ok to take it if I were not the commish? This was put up for a vote and it passed. I DIDNT VOTE for my own trade. The league decided to let this pass. The majority of the votes were to allow it to pass. What else can I do? What 2 players that I would get in the 2nd and 4th round that would equal the points Manning will get? I did all I could be to make this fair with giving up Manning with the 1st pick. The league voted on it and it passed. I didnt get any negative feed back on this deal like I did with the first deal. I agree the first deal was bad and it was voted down by the league. I have a team like eveyone else and I'm just trying to improve my chances to win like everyone else. Because Im the commish I should not take certain deals or trades even after the league voted to pass them? 921148[/snapback] If you want your league to fully trust you, then you should do exactly what you said in your last sentence. I think it's clear what people have been saying. The commish should NEVER take certain deals that seem somewhat lopsided. It just makes things difficult for the league for the season and future seasons. The commish needs to "take one for the league" at times. Thats just how it is. Obviously you felt a little guilty about it, otherwise why would you have posted so many times about it? Trust me, if you feel a little guilty about a trade as a commish, you probably shouldn't proceed with the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardrocker Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 SO, I should not take this deal because Im the commish? 921148[/snapback] Yes. It sucks, but as you can see here, it is still a very uneven trade. You dont need to justify the deal. It seems to me you have bent over backwards (pun intended) to not take advantage of someone, who probably is not very experienced. I just think in the end, (snicker) you shouldnt do it. You can say its fair and be right. But if you win you will be replacing a bunch of people next year and I bet some of those that voted yes too. Its your league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 OK I will think about the posts and consider not taking this trade. On a side note the other guy Im trading with has been playing FF for 6 years. He has won this league 2 times already. He plays on 4 leagues every year. The other owners hate him becuase he always seems to be in the thick of things when playoff time rolls around. I dont think Im taking advantage of this guy at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 (edited) You give 1.01, 6.05 and 8.05 for 1.05, 2.12 and 4.12 Looking at the last Huddle mock for a 12 team performance league that equates to: 1.01 - Manning 6.05 - Bruce 8.05 - BUF for 1.05 - Holmes 2.12 - Holt 4.12 - Staley Now throw in your other 2nd round and 4th rounders and picks through 8 1.05 - Holmes 2.08 - CJohnson 2.12 - Holt 3.05 - Martin 4.08 - Burleson 4.12 - Staley 5.05 - Coles 7.05 - Hasslebeck Versus his picks through 8 rounds 1.01 - Manning 3.02 - Benson (3.01 was McNabb) 5.04 - Ward (5.02 was Bulger, 5.03 was TGreen) 6.05 - Bruce 6.12 - McMichael 7.01 - BUF 8.06 - Branch (8.06 was PIT) 8.12 - Duckett So after 8 rounds: Hasslebeck Holmes, Martin, Staley CJohnson, Holt, Burleson, Coles vs Manning Benson, Duckett Ward, Bruce, Branch McMichael BUF Oh yeah that worked out well for him Edited August 11, 2005 by Grits and Shins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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