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Randall

Shut up M Irvin

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By By Greg Bedard

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

 

Friday, September 16, 2005

 

The way Michael Irvin sees it, every NFL fan in America should be talking about Brett Favre.

 

Not because of his hurricane-relief efforts in his native Mississippi.

 

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Because, Irvin contends, Favre stuck his nose where it didn't belong — and Packers receiver Javon Walker will pay a hefty price for it.

 

"Now, this is a story here," said Irvin, the former star receiver for the University of Miami and Dallas Cowboys. "This boy (Walker) came back into camp because of Brett Favre. The great Brett Favre. This is not some rookie quarterback calling him out when he was asking for his money. (Sorry Irvin it isn't his money)This is the great Brett Favre."

 

To recap, Walker, on the advice of his Miami-based agent, Drew Rosenhaus, threatened to hold out of training camp because the former Florida State receiver thought the $515,000 he was due to make this season wasn't worth the injury risk. Not after a Pro Bowl season that included 89 catches for 1,382 yards and 12 TDs.

 

"When you're dealing with a profession where you can be paralyzed or injured at any given time . . . you have to do what's best for you," Walker, 26, said in May on Wisconsin radio station WTLX.

 

Favre, who discussed retirement before the season, criticized Walker, saying he was "going about this the wrong way."

 

"Just because you had one good year doesn't give you the right to hold out and put the team in that situation," Favre said.

 

In the end, Walker reported to camp on time. The teammaes made up. But against the Lions on Sunday, Walker sustained the type of injury he feared — a torn ligament in his right knee that means he will lose the next six to 10 months — and any negotiating leverage.

 

That, Irvin said, is why Favre was wrong to pressure Walker.

 

"I love Brett, I appreciate Brett. But Brett should know business is business," said Irvin, who was at Dolphins camp on Thursday for a ESPN feature. "You don't mess with another man's business.

 

"Now, what do you do, Brett? If I'm Brett, how you can walk in the room when you just did surgery to say, 'Hey, man, I'm sorry this has happened?' How could you do it? How could you look that man in his eyes?"

 

When asked Wednesday if he regretted his previous comments, Favre said no.

 

"I feel terrible about what happened because it doesn't help our team any," said Favre, who makes upward of $10 million a year. "But he's young. It's hard for him to believe it right now, but I promise you, he'll come back better. His contract situation will take care of itself. I still think he'll make a lot of money."

 

Irvin said Favre should have done more to help Walker negotiate — that the quarterback should have been worrying about his teammates and not his bosses.

 

"Brett called out Javon Walker. I say, 'Why didn't Brett call out Ted Thompson, the GM over at Green Bay?' " Irvin said.

 

"If he comes out on the air and says, 'Hey, Ted and Javon, you guys get your butts together, man, because we need Javon in here,' then I say, 'Man, that man cares about the football team.' But when you just call out Javon, I say, 'Well, maybe it's the organization you care about.' "

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I don't agree with Irvin on much, but in this case he is right on the money. :D

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I do NOT like Irvin, but I do not have a problem with what he is saying for the most part. His hold out was business and Farve should not say anything about it. He should have kept his mouth shut. Walker was not running around to the media like TO. He was fairly quite.

Edited by Grimm74

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I don't think this is the outcry Randall was looking for...but Irvin is right.

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I don't think this is the outcry Randall was looking for...but Irvin is right.

 

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Chalk up another anti-Favre -- and, I guess, anti-Randall :D -- opinion here. I think Irvin, as much as I typically hate hearing several words come out of his mouth and try to form into sentences, was right on this one.

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I don't think this is the outcry Randall was looking for...but Irvin is right.

 

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That isn't what I minded. When he said "his money" showed ghetto talk as it's worst.

 

Let me add when Favre said that Javon wasn't hurt and probably feels worse than anyone right now. Irvin doesn't consider that of course. He says business is business as though you can do whatever you like to get yourself more money.

 

He doesn't speak like a team player.

Edited by Randall

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If you all think that it was ok for Javon to hold out because he was only protecting his best interests, then you shouldn't criticize Favre for trying to protect his best interests either----which was getting his Pro Bowl reciever into camp and making sure he could contribute to the TEAM.

 

Ironically, I usually agree with and enjoy M. Irvin's commentary. But I think he's way off on this one.

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The NFL is a business. Not only a business, but a highly profitable one at that. I think Walker is a great young talent who deserved to be paid more than he was making. I heard alot of stories on this matter and the one I heard more than anything is that players stay out of other players' business when it comes to contracts. It's easy for Brett (who I admire and respect) to say, "get into camp to help us win" while he makes a boat-load of money.

 

Does anyone actually think the Packers are gonna give him a new contract next year when he returns? Hell no. He is gonna have to go out once again and start at the bottom to prove he's back (if he even can) to form and then wait a whole other year before any renegotiation can take place.

 

As much as it pains me to say it, Irving is dead on. Brett should of shut-up.

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Does anyone actually think the Packers are gonna give him a new contract next year when he returns? Hell no. He is gonna have to go out once again and start at the bottom to prove he's back (if he even can) to form and then wait a whole other year before any renegotiation can take place.

 

 

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Because of this whole mess, I think the Packers will negotiate in good faith with Walker. If he shows good progress with the knee by spring, I think they will redo his contract and he will make more money. If they don't, I can see every single player on the Packers squad holding out next year.

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Because of this whole mess, I think the Packers will negotiate in good faith with Walker.  If he shows good progress with the knee by spring, I think they will redo his contract and he will make more money.  If they don't, I can see every single player on the Packers squad holding out next year.

 

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agreed

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Because of this whole mess, I think the Packers will negotiate in good faith with Walker.  If he shows good progress with the knee by spring, I think they will redo his contract and he will make more money.  If they don't, I can see every single player on the Packers squad holding out next year.

 

994194[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

 

What color is the sky in your dreamworld?

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agreed

 

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Local media certainly doesn't think so. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel listed a number of contract options yesterday and that wasn't one of them.

 

My guess is that Walker plays in 2006 and then opts for FA.

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Because of this whole mess, I think the Packers will negotiate in good faith with Walker.  If he shows good progress with the knee by spring, I think they will redo his contract and he will make more money.  If they don't, I can see every single player on the Packers squad holding out next year.

 

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I wouldn't bet on that. It's a nice sentiment (every single player..holding out next year), but we're talking the HUGH business of the NFL. And if Irving is right, you can count on it not happening. He's the one saying don't mess with another man's business.

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For all of you posters that agree with Irvin you are saying it is okay to hold out for more money when you have one good season? Or are you saying Favre shouldn't have called him out?

 

Like Skilly said I see the packers work out a new deal with Walker and show good faith.

 

Favre came out and said what he did because he knew the team needed Walker to have any shot at the playoffs. This could be Favre's last year and he needed his best weapon to be successful.

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For all of you posters that agree with Irvin you are saying it is okay to hold out for more money when you have one good season? Or are you saying Favre shouldn't have called him out?

 

Like Skilly said I see the packers work out a new deal with Walker and show good faith.

 

Favre came out and said what he did because he knew the team needed Walker to have any shot at the playoffs. This could be Favre's last year and he needed his best weapon to be successful.

 

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Do you let the people you work with negotiate your wages in a public forum?

 

The owners do what they think is best for them. The players do whatever their agent tells them is best for them.

 

I think if the NFL ownership would show a little more good faith after spectacular performances, the situation would work out best for all. But that is in a perfect world.

 

I agree with -gulp- Irvin on this one. But there is no need to harp on it. What's done is done and I'm sure Favre absolutely feels worse about it than anybody.

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That, Irvin said, is why Favre was wrong to pressure Walker.

 

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Irvin sucks and you guys might want to think a bit before jumping on the bandwagon. Favre just wants to win and that's why he called out Javon, period. Javon got injured trying to make a great catch for his QB, again just trying to win period. No hard feelings.

 

The "business" part of it doesn't apply anywhere, before or after. But Irvin seems to think he knows all and that the selfish attitudes players have is part of the "business" end of the game. It makes me sick enough that our kids pick up on the entitlement label and think they do not have to work to win success, fame, and fortune. But to have somebody on air tell you that even the game's best have shrunk to that level is a complete lie and a publicity stunt to further his own selfish pride. And to have armchair quarterbacks like us simply agree with him before thinking about it means we are failing as parents, coaches, and mentors to our future fantasy studs.

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For all of you posters that agree with Irvin you are saying it is okay to hold out for more money when you have one good season? Or are you saying Favre shouldn't have called him out?

 

Like Skilly said I see the packers work out a new deal with Walker and show good faith.

 

Favre came out and said what he did because he knew the team needed Walker to have any shot at the playoffs. This could be Favre's last year and he needed his best weapon to be successful.

 

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A. I don't think players should hold out after one good season. They signed a contract, they should honor it.

 

B. Obviously, Walker and his agent don't agree with me since he wanted to hold out for more guaranteed money.

 

C. Favre should have stayed out of it.

 

D. I don't see Walker getting a good deal until he proves he's 100% and can get it done. IF the Packers show him some "sign of good faith" (which I doubt they will), I guarantee you it will either be a back-end loaded or incentive-driven contract with far less guaranteed (signing bonus) money than he would have otherwise gotten.

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Irvin sucks...

 

... we are failing as parents, coaches, and mentors to our future fantasy studs.

 

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Wow - aren't you a model citizen.

 

I hope that was a joke. :D

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Wow - aren't you a model citizen.

 

I hope that was a joke.  :D

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not really and flame away if you like, but the sad truth in this country is that sports salaries are a main reason why many kids feel entitled and don't take school, jobs, etc. seriously enough. Sure, Favre should have kept his nose out, but I think he was on firm ground, the kind of ground Irvin doesn't understand. Walker's holdout was a bad choice, but he went down playing hard --- how the hell does Favre get the blame? Guys like Irvin and Moss and TO have nothing to offer our kids when they open their fat mouths because they do not understand the kind of responsibility that goes along with their success - Favre does.

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Guys like Irvin and Moss and TO have nothing to offer our kids when they open their fat mouths because they do not understand the kind of responsibility that goes along with their success - Favre does.

 

994511[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

:D:D:D

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I think Irvin should shut up on this subject as well. Yes, Javon Walker got injured. However, Brett Favre didn't plan or intend that when it happened. Brett is the team leader in Green Bay--everyone knows this. Does that mean that maybe Brett gets in people's faces a little too much from time-to-time? Probably yes.

 

However, thats what works for him. Tell me, who would you rather have as your QB if you were hoping for a playoff run? Brett Favre, or some guy who has good QB skills, but has no reputation for being a leader--like Aaron Brooks or Matt Hasselbeck. What I am saying is that you cannot "turn off" Brett Favre on some of these issues--right or wrong (and he is usually right) Brett is going to sound off on this stuff, because that's what someone with his gung-ho leadership style does.

 

Javon knew that he was going to hear from Brett Favre when he started talking about a contract. Heck, everything I heard about this in the media was "I wonder what Brett Favre is going to say about this". Javon could have said "I appreciate Brett's feelings, but this is about my future" He could have even told Brett to go to Hades. However, Javon Walker made his own decision, based in part on what his team leader and pro-bowl QB was telling him, and it just didn't work out as anyone (including a pile of Javon Walker fantasy owners) planned.

 

Besides, what is the alternative to what happened? Let's say that Brett Favre did keep his mouth shut. And that Walker had got either a new contract or was holding out right now. The end result would be that either way Walker would not be playing right now, because he would still be either injured or holding out. The only difference would be that the Packers might be saddled with a long-term contract for a player who is not going to be on the field this year.

 

I don't necessarily see that as a big improvement for anyone other than Javon Walker. The team still takes a hit. The Packer's organization takes a hit. The fans take a psychological hit, and have to pay just that little bit more each weekend to pay off Javon's new contract.

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I think the point was that Rosenhaus was right. 512k is not worth the injury risk when he could likely secure 8 million plus in signing bonus for a multiyear deal.

 

Football is all about the guaranteed money, and BRett should keep his nose out of it. Shame on Javon and Drew for listening to him though.

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not really and flame away if you like, but the sad truth in this country is that sports salaries are a main reason why many kids feel entitled and don't take school, jobs, etc. seriously enough.  Sure, Favre should have kept his nose out, but I think he was on firm ground, the kind of ground Irvin doesn't understand.  Walker's holdout was a bad choice, but he went down playing hard --- how the hell does Favre get the blame?  Guys like Irvin and Moss and TO have nothing to offer our kids when they open their fat mouths because they do not understand the kind of responsibility that goes along with their success - Favre does.

 

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Wow, it's easy to be self-serving when your money is already made. It's easy to pontificate when your resources aren't affected. Farve's contract is already set in stone, if you want to help the team and truly show your leadership from wire to wire, Farve Esq., give up some of your salary to keep the talent around you that you say you need to win a la Brady or the GOAT Michael Jordan. Other than that shut up, take the snap and hand the ball off or throw it down the d@mn field.

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A.  I don't think players should hold out after one good season.  They signed a contract, they should honor it.

 

B.  Obviously, Walker and his agent don't agree with me since he wanted to hold out for more guaranteed money.

 

C.  Favre should have stayed out of it.

 

D.  I don't see Walker getting a good deal until he proves he's 100% and can get it done.  IF the Packers show him some "sign of good faith" (which I doubt they will), I guarantee you it will either be a back-end loaded or incentive-driven contract with far less guaranteed (signing bonus) money than he would have otherwise gotten.

 

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Agreed.

 

Walker would have reported with or without the "pressure" (Irvin claims) that Favre put on him. Players rarely end up sticking to their guns, because they can't. If they don't play, they dont get paid. And if they don't show up by week 8 (not sure?) they dont get credited for a year of playing time toward retirement.

 

I think RosenKate Middleton is ruining his own credibility as an agent when his players keep threatening holdout and end up going back without a new deal.

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