wiegie Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Anybody want to try to convince me that it is possible for a person to have an IQ above 90 and still think that Andrew Jones should win the NL MVP over Albert Pujols or Derrick Lee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Pujols is clearly the best player on the best team. I can see the argument for Jones - he's the stud on an Atlanta team filled with rookies, but I'd personally vote for Pujols. Derek Lee lost his chance with the Cubs fade (we all now what "Cubs" stands for - Completely Useless By September) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted October 2, 2005 Author Share Posted October 2, 2005 Oh, yes, I see that the title says "American" when it should say either "is America that dumb" or "are Americans that dumb". I guess this proves that it is possible for some people with IQs under 90 to still be smart enough to know that Andrew Jones should not be the MVP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegFuJohnson Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Why do you need to be convinced? Do you have a vote? I'd vote for Pujols, Jones second, but Derrek Lee is a distant third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 (edited) Oh, yes, I see that the title says "American" when it should say either "is America that dumb" or "are Americans that dumb". 1037661[/snapback] Since you mentioned it, it's also "Andruw Jones" not "Andrew Jones." I agree with Chavez. I can see how a case can be made for Jones, but I agree completely that he should NOT win the award. Even though people like to argue that the MVP is whoever is most valuable to their team, and that the Braves would be screwed without Jones, realistically the MVP usually goes to the guy with the best statistics in the league. If that guy happens to be on a really bad team, then that that hurts his chances, but Andre Dawson won an MVP back in '87 I think playing for the last place Cubbies, so I think that shows that it's more statistical than anything. And if that's true, then Jones' extra 10 HRs and 11 RBIs over Pujols doesn't offset Pujols' extra 34 runs, 11 SBs and 68 point advantage in batting average. AND the Cards were the best team in the NL. It should be Pujols hands down. I also think that since Pujols has been so amazing for the last few years yet has never won the MVP due to Bonds' presence, I think the writers will take that into account even though it's supposed to be an award based solely on this season. I think Pujols will get what he deserves this year. And while we're at it, ARod should be the AL MVP, but I'm not as certain he will win as I am of Pujols. Edited October 2, 2005 by Skrappy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I agree with Chavez. 1037780[/snapback] You are a wise, wise man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 i learned that american is that dumb that year when jeff kent won the MVP over barry bonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Jones had a fine year but with a 262 batting average and a 347 OBP I cannot see how anyone could vote him MVP.I mean ,I know he means much more in the field than Pujols and that makes up for some things but it does not make up enough for him to be MVP over Pujols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 Jones and Papi should win the award. Take Arod off the Yanks and they still contend same with Pujols and the Cards. Remove Jones or Papi from the braves and Sox and neither team goes to the postseason. This best player on the best team is a complete joke imo. The MVP, is the most valuable player, not the best player. There are awards for the best player, but the MVP should certainly not be that award. Otherwise rename the award, best player award. BTW, Arod shouldnt have won it a couple of yrs back in Texas, and Im a Ranger fan. He had amazing stats, but he didnt help his team win games. hell they have won more each yr since than when he was the cancer of this clubhouse. 1039569[/snapback] I read somewhere that Barry Bonds should win the MVP again this year because the Giants' poor performance without him proved how valuable he was. As for Andruw Jones, I love this: In all fairness, Jones said, hitting .300 hasn't ever been something high on his career agenda. "They've been consistent with the averages," he said of Pujols and Lee. "I never care about average. My thing is driving the runs consistently with people on base." Remember, the guy who said this batted .209 with runners in scoring position. It just doesn't add up that this guy is the most valuable in the league. I don't buy the "without Pujols the Cardinals still contend" argument. The Cardinals might still contend, but they don't win anywhere near 100 games this season and they are not a lock to make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 The Braves MVP was the coach. to win the division without being excellent at any 1 thing is amazing. reminds me of the Twins and how they made the playoffs 3 years ago BEFORE Santana and Nathan became studs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) Jones and Papi should win the award. Take Arod off the Yanks and they still contend same with Pujols and the Cards. Remove Jones or Papi from the braves and Sox and neither team goes to the postseason. This best player on the best team is a complete joke imo. The MVP, is the most valuable player, not the best player. There are awards for the best player, but the MVP should certainly not be that award. Otherwise rename the award, best player award. 1039569[/snapback] that's just stupid. what you're basically saying is that the best player in the league CAN'T win it if he's on the best team. he has to be the best player on a marginal team so you can say look how crappy they'd be without him. that's weetodded. what's especially stupid is that you say the yankees, who made the playoffs by what, 1 game, would still contend without a guy who hit 48 HRs and drove in 130. there's not much to chose from between papi and arod, i guess i'd give the edge to arod because he's a better all-around player. andruw had a great year, but he's not the NL mvp. period. Edited October 3, 2005 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 come to think of it, how could you not give the AL mvp to manny ortez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I would think Jones' offensive presence on the Braves, with all of the injuries and having to start 17 rookies through the course of the season and playing lights out when needed, is what is upper most in people's minds. Pujols definitely has a better supporting cast around him, etc. But, I do think Pujols is the better player. And I'm a Braves fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cherni Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Oh, yes, I see that the title says "American" when it should say either "is America that dumb" or "are Americans that dumb". I guess this proves that it is possible for some people with IQs under 90 to still be smart enough to know that Andrew Jones should not be the MVP. 1037661[/snapback] Haha, nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cherni Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Anybody want to try to convince me that it is possible for a person to have an IQ above 90 and still think that Andrew Jones should win the NL MVP over Albert Pujols or Derrick Lee? 1037552[/snapback] That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read. No, I'm serious. First of all, no player should ever get MVP if their team isn't in the playoffs. Derek Lee had a sick year, but what did he do for the Cubs? They haven't played a meaningful game in over a month. Albert Pujols is a stud. However he didn't carry the team like Jones did. When Chipper went down, Andruw stepped up like crazy. Without Andruw the Braves never make the playoffs. I'm a Mets fan, I HATE the Braves, however there is no denying that Jones did the most for his team. It's a no brainer. That is to take nothing away from Pujols, he's an absolute freak of nature. Jevon Kearse should relinquish his title, as Pujols is the real freak. However he didn't do as much as Andruw did for his team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 I don't see how people can think that Jones carried Atlanta. The Brave' overall batting average is actually higher if you remove Jones' stats. In terms of the slugging percentage of the players around Jones and Pujols. The braves slugging % sans Jones was .418, while the Cardinals slugging % sans Pujols was .401. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read. No, I'm serious. First of all, no player should ever get MVP if their team isn't in the playoffs. Derek Lee had a sick year, but what did he do for the Cubs? They haven't played a meaningful game in over a month. Albert Pujols is a stud. However he didn't carry the team like Jones did. When Chipper went down, Andruw stepped up like crazy. Without Andruw the Braves never make the playoffs. I'm a Mets fan, I HATE the Braves, however there is no denying that Jones did the most for his team. It's a no brainer. That is to take nothing away from Pujols, he's an absolute freak of nature. Jevon Kearse should relinquish his title, as Pujols is the real freak. However he didn't do as much as Andruw did for his team. 1060657[/snapback] Sometimes homers get blinded by the light. I am a very big Andruw Jones fan. but to say he deserved the MVP over Pujols just is not right.and the fact that MLB nominated him MVP is just plain pathetic. reminds me of the year Kirk Gibson was named N.L. MVP . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I don't see how people can think that Jones carried Atlanta. The Brave' overall batting average is actually higher if you remove Jones' stats. In terms of the slugging percentage of the players around Jones and Pujols. The braves slugging % sans Jones was .418, while the Cardinals slugging % sans Pujols was .401. 1061038[/snapback] newbie tool, you been served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 newbie tool, you been served. 1061109[/snapback] yep--I was even holding back my comment about how Jones came to the plate with runners in scoring position 40+ times more than Pujols did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cherni Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Sometimes homers get blinded by the light. I am a very big Andruw Jones fan. but to say he deserved the MVP over Pujols just is not right.and the fact that MLB nominated him MVP is just plain pathetic. reminds me of the year Kirk Gibson was named N.L. MVP . 1061075[/snapback] He carried the club when Chipper went down. It was him and a bunch of kids out there (sans Julio Franco). He led that team in the batters box and in the field. There's just no denying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 He carried the club when Chipper went down. It was him and a bunch of kids out there (sans Julio Franco). He led that team in the batters box and in the field. There's just no denying it. 1061731[/snapback] sure. he also can't carry pujols' jock in terms of value to his team, no matter how you try and add it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miner Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 It was him and a bunch of kids out there1061731[/snapback] not just any kids.....rookie of the year Francoeur who was on fire. Meanwhile, Pujols was without the protection of Rolen, Sanders and Larry Walker who were all out with injuries. There were even games that Molina and Taguchi batted behind Pujols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Andruw Jones was easily an MVP candidate. Andruw carried a lineup of no-names into the playoffs and had a career year at the plate. Pujols was better statistically, but he had better players around him (Edmonds, Walker, etc.). I could've seen it going either way, but I think that Jones was the better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 Andruw Jones was easily an MVP candidate. Andruw carried a lineup of no-names into the playoffs and had a career year at the plate. Pujols was better statistically, but he had better players around him (Edmonds, Walker, etc.). I could've seen it going either way, but I think that Jones was the better choice. 1061857[/snapback] Larry Walker played less than Chipper Jones did this year and Jim Edmonds batted a whopping .263. The number I cited earlier (such as overall team batting average and team slugging percent) tell the true story of the relative talent that surrounded Jones vs. Pujols. As for Jones having a career year at the plate, if batting .263 (including less than .210 with runners in scoring position) is a career year at the plate--then he sure hasn't had much of a career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Larry Walker played less than Chipper Jones did this year and Jim Edmonds batted a whopping .263. The number I cited earlier (such as overall team batting average and team slugging percent) tell the true story of the relative talent that surrounded Jones vs. Pujols. As for Jones having a career year at the plate, if batting .263 (including less than .210 with runners in scoring position) is a career year at the plate--then he sure hasn't had much of a career. 1062035[/snapback] Outside of Hudson and Smoltz, the Braves don't have crap for pitching, so that puts a lot more pressure on people like Jones to drive in runs. On the other hand, the Cards don't need 40+ homers out of Pujols to win their division. They can sit back and rely on the best rotation in the majors (Carpenter, Mulder, Morris, Suppan, and Marquis), their set-up men who all have a ERAs under 3.50 (King, Tavarez, Reyes, and Flores) and their established closer with 39 saves and a microscopic 2.14 ERA. I agree that Pujuols' numbers are better than Jones'. But when one considers how much more the Braves had to lean on Jones to win their division, I don't think that it's "dumb" to give Jones the NL MVP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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