NSab Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Now you are just being a dingus...and there's no need for it. I will take as much time to answer any questions as I have available to me. Today I had very little. Gimmie a break. 1258713[/snapback] Dude no need to get cocky, I didn't but you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSab Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I asked you an honest question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Nick in the future, just say no decision has been made yet, we are still discussing at this point. It would save all of us alot of headaches. 1258714[/snapback] That's fine. Then why don't the league members leave it alone as well until we have had a chance to come to a decision. The season just ended! We are just talking about next season now, and have 8 months to go. Why are you and everyone else pushing the heck out of us for an answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSab Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) That's fine. Then why don't the league members leave it alone as well until we have had a chance to come to a decision. The season just ended! We are just talking about next season now, and have 8 months to go. Why are you and everyone else pushing the heck out of us for an answer? 1258721[/snapback] Because you posted that it was a done deal already, thus my question to you, you spoke out of turn, then cool, no problem, mistakes happen. Edited January 10, 2006 by NSab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I'll say it for all the Commissioners.... No decision is final until it is posted in each individual forum. No matter what is said here on the MB or in other places.... NO DECISION IS FINAL UNTIL POSTED IN EACH INDIVIDUAL FORUM. Until then.... discussions are going on... votes are going on.... people are being listened too.... and finalization of things are occurring..... Nick was our spokesman... we asked him to say his piece..... don't just jump on Nick.... Please. 1258712[/snapback] I understand that. I expect you are playing semantics games ... in this case the deicision looks to have been fairly finalized but not yet formally announced to the masses in the dedicated forums. So Nick was just laying out what he understood to be the final decision based on discussions in main HAG forum. It was a timing issue, i.e. he was in front of the formal announcement. I don't see how it could be otherwise reading his long post. But based on the stir created the topic is being re-hashed (a good thing IMO). This statement As far as what would happen when a person left their age bracket goes, this was one of the first things we discussed. We have hashed and rehashed in detail the pros and cons of what to do with people getting too old for their groups. In the end, we decided that the leagues were 4 different leagues, and only tied together by a common rule set and a season ending competition across the age groups to age supremacy. For this issue of where people get to go on the waiting list, it was determined that people in a league had no more right to another league than people not in a league. There was debate over participation, etc., but when moving up you are joining a new league. Someone that has been waiting to play for a long time should have a chance to, and as good of a chance as anyone else that qualifies to play in the league. The concession we decided to make to people that no longer qualified to be in the league they were previously participating in was to allow a time period when the waiting lists for the league they now qualified for to be open only for them, if they were old enough to join. is hard to intrepret any other way than that the final decision had been made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSab Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I understand that. I expect you are playing semantics games ... in this case the deicision looks to have been fairly finalized but not yet formally announced to the masses in the dedicated forums. So Nick was just laying out what he understood to be the final decision based on discussions in main HAG forum. It was a timing issue, i.e. he was in front of the formal announcement. I don't see how it could be otherwise reading his long post. But based on the stir created the topic is being re-hashed (a good thing IMO). This statement As far as what would happen when a person left their age bracket goes, this was one of the first things we discussed. We have hashed and rehashed in detail the pros and cons of what to do with people getting too old for their groups. In the end, we decided that the leagues were 4 different leagues, and only tied together by a common rule set and a season ending competition across the age groups to age supremacy. For this issue of where people get to go on the waiting list, it was determined that people in a league had no more right to another league than people not in a league. There was debate over participation, etc., but when moving up you are joining a new league. Someone that has been waiting to play for a long time should have a chance to, and as good of a chance as anyone else that qualifies to play in the league. The concession we decided to make to people that no longer qualified to be in the league they were previously participating in was to allow a time period when the waiting lists for the league they now qualified for to be open only for them, if they were old enough to join. is hard to intrepret any other way than that the final decision had been made. 1258729[/snapback] When you are right , you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Dear god, leave it already! We'll post when we've sorted it all out, y'all can b1tch about it again, we'll all quit and youse can run the bugger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 One last comment and then I am done with this thread and on to the forums where all this should have been. Rather than have all the Commissioners of HAG post about the results of ongoing discussions and debate, we had Nick do it for us. I thought he did a great job of saying what we wanted to say. At the time, even though there had been a decision made on 'one part' of what needed to be finalized, there was still more to discuss. Trying to please people, we had a summary put out by Nick. I admit, that was a major mistake.... trying to please people with only half the problem taken care of. In the future my advice will be to keep people in the dark until we come to a finalization and are ready to post in the forums. That way no one will get in a huff.... quit.... or call people out. At the very least they will hold off until they see the finalized rules in their individual forum. Again.... thank you all for your patience and I expect everyone to remember one thing.... I don't play games. Never have here, never will.... semantics or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Dear god, leave it already! We'll post when we've sorted it all out, y'all can b1tch about it again, we'll all quit and youse can run the bugger. 1258756[/snapback] I think part of the problem is my frustration at not being a part of the rules process. This is the only league in which I don't have a say. In all my other leagues rules are voted on by the general membership. Here rules are handed down as mandates and being a type A person (I'm sure that's a surprise to many) that just doesn't set well with me, especially if I don't agree with the mandate. Don't get me wrong, I understand why the process works the way it does ... and maybe it's best that way (although I'm not sure why rules can't be voted on (yes/no) by the 48 owner membership) ... that doesn't mean I have to like everything that comes down the pike. Letting it rest now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSab Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Ageed Sky, that is all that is needed, now we will wait to see what you guys come up with. Some clarification is good. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) Again.... thank you all for your patience and I expect everyone to remember one thing.... I don't play games. Never have here, never will.... semantics or otherwise. 1258761[/snapback] Sky ... I wasn't calling you out. But I saw one commissioner giving us a final ruling and then another commissioner saying nothing was finalized. I like the idea of a united front by the commissioners and it's probably a good idea to wait until things are finalized until an announcement is made ... unless you are looking for input (which I suspect most league members want to have). Okay, okay ... really letting it rest now. Edited January 11, 2006 by Grits and Shins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 (edited) I think part of the problem is my frustration at not being a part of the rules process. This is the only league in which I don't have a say. In all my other leagues rules are voted on by the general membership. Here rules are handed down as mandates and being a type A person (I'm sure that's a surprise to many) that just doesn't set well with me, especially if I don't agree with the mandate. Don't get me wrong, I understand why the process works the way it does ... and maybe it's best that way (although I'm not sure why rules can't be voted on (yes/no) by the 48 owner membership) ... that doesn't mean I have to like everything that comes down the pike. Letting it rest now. 1258769[/snapback] You have a say. Say it in your league forum to your commishes. Ursa and DGF are extremely diligent about bringing up your concerns in the commish forum. Trust them a little. Edit: Without counting, I can tell you that there have been far more "Grits has another question' posts throughout the process than there have been from any other league combined... Edited January 11, 2006 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 You have a say. Say it in your league forum to your commishes. Ursa and DGF are extremely diligent about bringing up your concerns in the commish forum. Trust them a little. 1258796[/snapback] Please point me to any of the league forums where the membership has been asked for input on the rule changes under discussion right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSab Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Guys something you should realise is that most of the Huddlers in HAG aren't sheep to led around. All we want are straight answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Please point me to any of the league forums where the membership has been asked for input on the rule changes under discussion right now. 1258799[/snapback] Since when do you need to be invited to have an opinion or give input? You do it all the time. And they hear you. And we talk about it. We aren't in the habit of polling for every issue because quite frankly none of us really have the time for that. But all suggestions have been and will continue to be discussed. You should know that, since you have asked the most questions and received the most answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Edit: Without counting, I can tell you that there have been far more "Grits has another question' posts throughout the process than there have been from any other league combined... 1258796[/snapback] Probably from when the rules were being formed at the beginning ... and from the discussion round playoffs and playoff tie-breakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Since when do you need to be invited to have an opinion or give input? You do it all the time. And they hear you. And we talk about it. We aren't in the habit of polling for every issue because quite frankly none of us really have the time for that. But all suggestions have been and will continue to be discussed. You should know that, since you have asked the most questions and received the most answers. 1258808[/snapback] How exactly am I to know what rules are under discussion ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Probably from when the rules were being formed at the beginning ... and from the discussion round playoffs and playoff tie-breakers. 1258809[/snapback] Those places, sure. You had questions or suggestions. Several people did. And we took them and used them in our decision making process. Several of the things we decided came as direct suggestions from members. Why would you think you or anyone in the leagues couldn't do that now with any suggestions you had? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 (edited) How exactly am I to know what rules are under discussion ... 1258810[/snapback] For the most part, the things we are discussing have to do with concerns brought up by league members, like what to do when someone goes over the age requirement. We aren't discussing format, draft, rosters, trades, WW, scoring, etc., at this time. If someone brings up a concern, we will put it up for discussion. That's what we have tried to do all along. Edited January 11, 2006 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 How exactly am I to know what rules are under discussion ... 1258810[/snapback] From page one of this thread A good question and one that is still being ironed out. From the beginning I felt you should not be in a league if you are not of that age group. One of the league commissioners believes that there should be at least a three year leeway.... which completely negates the idea of the leagues and just makes them another BOTH league. I am sure they will have things settled by superbowl time. 1249971[/snapback] Was obvious to most that this rule was being looked at. (Drat... said I was done.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSab Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 (edited) Nobody ever consulted the members on anything, I think Fraz and Urs are great guys and handled things for us all year, good job. This whole thing is a result of your misinformation, you as a commish should know better than to post something that was false, according to Sky's post, which I believe he is trying to cover for your mistake.We will await the outcome of the mystery meetings and see what comes of this. Edited January 11, 2006 by NSab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Sorry Bro, but you let this cat out of the bag, read your post. And no ever consulted me about any thing when the league started, some people said before others that they would commish and so it went. I like this league and for the life of me can't see why , if the members want this to be this way, anyone would oppose it. This is a small glitch in a pretty good league, it can be fixed if you guys want to do it. It's easy or not either way, no problem. Some of us feel it's ludicrous to invest time and money into a league I am definately going to get out put out at age 51. 1258675[/snapback] Actually I let the cat out of the bag, Nick was just defending our HAG commishes) position/philosphy. I spoke too soon (as the rule(s) have NOT been finalized) just to give a Huddler some answers to his questions. I was probably wrong in doing so, but I can't unring the bell. I apologize for that, but maybe this airing is a good thing, timing and all, but I take responsibility for starting this mess. I thank Nick for trying to clean up my mess! This sounded like a final resolution to me ... it didn't sound like it was still being discussed in the HAG main forum. 1258701[/snapback] It was not a final resolution. Until you see it posted in the respective forums, it is tentative. It was discussed, at great lengths. Many of us were on the fence, but felt the (like nick's first statement) original intent of the league took precedent. Maybe we were wrong. I think you'll see we ALL want to preserve this special league! One last comment and then I am done with this thread and on to the forums where all this should have been. Rather than have all the Commissioners of HAG post about the results of ongoing discussions and debate, we had Nick do it for us. I thought he did a great job of saying what we wanted to say. At the time, even though there had been a decision made on 'one part' of what needed to be finalized, there was still more to discuss. Trying to please people, we had a summary put out by Nick. I admit, that was a major mistake.... trying to please people with only half the problem taken care of. In the future my advice will be to keep people in the dark until we come to a finalization and are ready to post in the forums. That way no one will get in a huff.... quit.... or call people out. At the very least they will hold off until they see the finalized rules in their individual forum. Again.... thank you all for your patience and I expect everyone to remember one thing.... I don't play games. Never have here, never will.... semantics or otherwise. 1258761[/snapback] Agreed and well stated. As I stated in other posts, I love this league. I have put a lot of time in as a commish and am willing to continue, if that is the will of HOT. I want to see it flourish, not fail. 2 years of hard work by a lot of people should guarantee this league turns into a legacy, NOT a failure! TY, SKY!!!! We, the commishes, have a lot of work to do to put a little polish/rule tightening on what is already a great league. But I do hope all of you in HAG don't expect to vote on every issue that needs to be discussed. That would be unwieldly and almost impossible to accomplish. Voted in our not, please respect the commitment of your commishes. It is NOT our intent to commandeer and mandate decisions that are not going to be popular. We are players also. I will be sending a HOT league wide email to ask for suggestions for rule tweaks/changes. I am pretty sure the other commishes will do the same. Peace. RR26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauders11 Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Guys something you should realise is that most of the Huddlers in HAG aren't sheep to led around. All we want are straight answers. 1258805[/snapback] hey Dingus Boy Pipe Down will ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauders11 Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 and for the record from my past experiences with other leagues- there is nothing that will get people in an uproar quicker than telling them that they are in a "Replublic" of a league rather than a democracy- especially since they are all grown men and they are all bucking up an equal amount of cash as the rule makers-and when the rule makers weren't necessarily voted into office but volunteered themselves. everyone should have a say at the very least so the commishes that took on that responsibility have to expect to deal with some of the shait too- it ain't always roses... I am eagerly awaiting the "final" result of all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I have waded through this entire thread. I am not currently affected by this whole issue of waiting lists and ages. I do not expect a response to this post. I don't think we have to vote on every issue that comes up, but input like this should always be welcome. The commissioners need input to keep the HAG fair. I look at all the HAG leagues as ultimately ONE league with one overall champion. Therefore, I would vote (if I could) to give CURRENT HAG members preference in filling open slots as owners age and move to the next age level. Another good idea was HAGII (if there are enough Huddlers on waiting lists to do this). I feel 12 teams is the maximum that should be allowed in each HAG league. The details of how to resolve the issue of who to pick when more than one HAG member moves to the next age bracket can be worked out by the commissioners. Some of the ideas that have been put forth in this thread are very good. And, lastly, I want to thank the commissioners for all their time and hard work putting HAG together and Sky for coming up with the HAG concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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