BrainySmurf Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 (edited) I think it's useful to define God as "whatever we don't understand and can't be explained through Science". That is effectively what he is, a placeholder in the public consciousness to explain the unexplained. We can't explain every step of evolution, so God must have had a hand in it. We don't know what happened before the Big Bang, therefore God made it happen. There are many possible explanations for why we are here. It's possible that our universe and everything in it was created by some superior species who themselves live in an outer universe, perhaps completely different than our own. If so, whoever set up our universe is essentially our God. If we were able to meet that being, we would likely find they are nothing like a God, but that is effectively the being that we have been calling God. (Of course, if they introduced themselves to us, the religious would not admit they were wrong about who created us, they would simply say God created the being who created us.) Since it seems that science will never know what happened before the Big Bang, it seems clear to me we will never know who created us or even if there was a who. Therefore it seems pointless to spend time thinking about it, much less arguing about it or arranging our whole lives around it. When I think of the many possible explanations for why we are here, I would be far too embarassed to actually attend a church to bow down and worship some nebulous concept. I think that if there was a creator of this universe, we are so insignificant to them that they could probably care less whether we believe in them or not. They would probably be uninterested or perhaps amused by the idea that we were "worshipping" them. None of this is to say that I think we can act any way we want. We are moral beings (most of us) who can understand the difference between right and wrong. Whether we were created or evolved, I believe we have a moral compass for a reason, and we should respect that and listen to that. I'm not talking about just obeying laws, I'm talking about emulating some of the great moral leaders of our past, like Gandhi, Buddha, and yes, Jesus Christ. Edited January 11, 2006 by BrainySmurf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I'm not talking about just obeying laws, I'm talking about emulating some of the great moral leaders of our past, like Gandhi, Buddha, and yes, Jesus Christ. 1260438[/snapback] how do you know that jesus was a great moral leader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Face Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 (edited) I think it's useful to define God as "whatever we don't understand and can't be explained through Science". That is effectively what he is, a placeholder in the public consciousness to explain the unexplained.1260438[/snapback] sure, that's fine. but most people who "believe in god" actually believe there's an invisible man that controls everything and has magical powers. Your definition is far too deep. P.S. I'm all for saying "I don't know", instead of "God did it". Edited January 11, 2006 by Meat Face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 well, it looks like some parents don't even want ID in a philosophy class ... FRESNO, Calif. - A rural high school teaching a religion-based alternative to evolution was sued Tuesday by a group of parents who said the class should be stopped because it violates the U.S. Constitution. Frazier Mountain High in Lebec violated the separation of church and state while attempting to legitimize the theory of "intelligent design" by introducing it as a philosophy class, according to the federal lawsuit filed by parents of 13 students. The teacher is also a minister's wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 How many more nails does it need? The lid's been glued down, taped down, nailed down and welded down thoroughly - all that remains is the burial. 1258661[/snapback] Explain the origin of matter and you'll have the coffin closed. Fail to explain it, and all you're left with if the conscious decision to discount it. "Proven" is the operative word, as the origin of matter can't be proven by either side. If the argument is what's to be taught in scools, that's different than the argument by itself. Have we had this discussion before....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Face Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Explain the origin of matter and you'll have the coffin closed. Fail to explain it, and all you're left with if the conscious decision to discount it. "Proven" is the operative word, as the origin of matter can't be proven by either side. If the argument is what's to be taught in scools, that's different than the argument by itself. Have we had this discussion before....? 1260667[/snapback] yes. Go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sores Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 If God is so great and stuff, why does some company from Canada have His domain name registered...and why is it not a secure site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Al Gore 1 up'd God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainySmurf Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) how do you know that jesus was a great moral leader? 1260459[/snapback] Actually, due to the selective editing done by the early church, we'll never really know what he was, or even what he said. The church lost any claim to moral superiority early on when they played fast and loose with history to twist things to fit their particular world view. However, I think you can look at the gist of the writings about him and conclude that he espoused beliefs that were unique in the world at that time. Whether he came up with them or whether they were teachings of the sect he belonged to is a subject of scholarly debate. Edited January 12, 2006 by BrainySmurf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 You're right. And why stop at creationism when we could list at least one million things that MIGHT be the true explanation even though there's no evidence for it! For example, it's possible, and unproven that it's not true, that the earth may have been created when Frank and Dweezel Zappa simultaneously sharted in each others mouths in a parallel universe 10 billion years ago. I think we should propose this as an explanation, in addition to Creationism/ID. And we should definitely propose it in public high school science class, because the Zappa explanation is a possible alternative to evolution. 1259314[/snapback] Why yes, yes it should. This is certainly one of the most widely believed/discussed theories around. (Ooops, the crack pipe is empty now) :doah: This is positively one of the most interesting threads I've read so far! Being a person of faith, (and a high school/jr high history teacher), I realize that much of what poses as "curriculum" mandated by boards of education and the individual states is in reality those things that society values and believes are necessary for a person to know to be a productive member of our society. Hopefully one of those values is the ability to THINK for yourself. I do have a problem with ID posing itself in science in anyway other than a topic for discussion, not part of the curriculum. Try teaching history without talking about religion. It cannot be done. EVERYTHING about the human condition is linked in some way to every field of learning. I can no more explain to a nonbeliever "why" I have faith scientifically than a scientist can explain "love". But I know it exists. Still, what a great discussion. Thanks Huddlers, even the crack-smokin', church-goin', sheep-humpin' ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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