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Chavez

"I don't trust nobody who don't love Jesus"

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What you have described with the baby's instincts and cooperative DNA is the exact opposite of free choice.

 

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Determinism. No one here will be able to disprove you.

 

Free Will is a theorem. Why the human psyche requires the perception of free will is still unknown.

 

:D

Edited by jetsfan

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And my question is--what if it were possible for a monkey to get the bananas without he himself getting hit with the hose AND for him to know that none of the other monkeys will ever figure out that the reason they got the hose was because the first monkey got the bananas.

 

What would stop the monkey from going after the bananas?

 

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wiegie, I know you're a constructivist at heart, but is there any point in this discussion that you intend to provide insight into your particular view? We're dealing with nothing more than thoughts loosely based in fact here, I can't believe that amongst this rabble we'll stumble upon absolute truth. Go ahead and speak your mind.

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wiegie, I know you're a constructivist at heart, but is there any point in this discussion that you intend to provide insight into your particular view? We're dealing with nothing more than thoughts loosely based in fact here, I can't believe that amongst this rabble we'll stumble upon absolute truth. Go ahead and speak your mind.

 

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I have no insight--I don't know why people would constrain their behavior and act ethically in situations in which they do not think they will be caught (either by other people, or by a supreme being, or by karma).

 

This type of voluntary self-imposed constraint violates one of the basic fundamental assumptions of economics--and I'm trying to reconcile the two.

 

Someday I seriously might write a book on the topic.

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I can't believe that amongst this rabble we'll stumble upon absolute truth.

 

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Heretic! Is this not the Huddle, the definition of absolute truth? :D

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I have no insight--I don't know why people would constrain their behavior and act ethically in situations in which they do not think they will be caught (either by other people, or by a supreme being, or by karma).

 

This type of voluntary self-imposed constraint violates one of the basic fundamental assumptions of economics--and I'm trying to reconcile the two.

 

Someday I seriously might write a book on the topic.

 

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Perhaps you and your :D brethren have built your house of cards on a pretty shaky foundation.

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I can't believe that amongst this rabble we'll stumble upon absolute truth.

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oh ye of little faith..

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Perhaps you and your :D brethren have built your house of cards on a pretty shaky foundation.

 

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maybe--although the economic idea of rational, self-interested behavior does give more accurate predictions for human behavior than any other assumption does.

 

(Also, the rationality assumption can't be falsifiable--no matter what behavior we see someone engage in, it is impossible to prove that they didn't behave in a way that they thought would make themselves better off. (NOTE: this in no way means that the assumption is correct.))

 

As it is right now, if you want to model human behavior, the best way to do so is to use the assumption of self-interested behavior. There are economists who are currently working on building other models based upon other motivations for behavior, but as yet, their models don't work as well.

 

(Do you have a better assumption for why people behave the way that they do?)

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Someday I seriously might write a book on the topic.

 

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Don't you kind of have to have a point when you write a book? Sure, bringing something but you have to have an educated opinion on the subject matter.

 

:D

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Don't you kind of have to have a point when you write a book?  Sure, bringing something but you have to have an educated opinion on the subject matter.

 

:D

 

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are you honestly having problems discerning wiegie's point?

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maybe--although the economic idea of rational, self-interested behavior does give more accurate predictions for human behavior than any other assumption does.

 

(Also, the rationality assumption can't be falsifiable--no matter what behavior we see someone engage in, it is impossible to prove that they didn't behave in a way that they thought would make themselves better off.  (NOTE: this in no way means that the assumption is correct.))

 

As it is right now, if you want to model human behavior, the best way to do so is to use the assumption of self-interested behavior.  There are economists who are currently working on building other models based upon other motivations for behavior, but as yet, their models don't work as well.

 

(Do you have a better assumption for why people behave the way that they do?)

 

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The problem I have is not necessarily the assumption that people will behave in a self-interested fashion, it is that the sel-interest is necessarily economic, as opposed to emotional.

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The problem I have is not necessarily the assumption that people will behave in a self-interested fashion, it is that the sel-interest is necessarily economic, as opposed to emotional.

 

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economic self-interests can easily incorporate emotional preferences

 

(economists do not define "economic interests" at all the same as a lawyer would)

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are you honestly having problems discerning wiegie's point?

 

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I am a pretty intelligent guy, but why are you trying to mind fok me over the internets? :D

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economic self-interests can easily incorporate emotional preferences

 

(economists do not define "economic interests" at all the same as a lawyer would)

 

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Fine. Substitute "financial" for "economic" in my post.

 

I hear you saying that self-interest does not necessarily equal money/property, but in you examples and your questions, you imply that the two are equal.

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This type of voluntary self-imposed constraint violates one of the basic fundamental assumptions of economics--and I'm trying to reconcile the two.

 

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And hence one of my beefs with economics. The assumption is too simplistic to account for the observed phenomena.

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And my question is--what if it were possible for a monkey to get the bananas without he himself getting hit with the hose AND for him to know that none of the other monkeys will ever figure out that the reason they got the hose was because the first monkey got the bananas.

 

What would stop the monkey from going after the bananas?

 

1391953[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

So now athiests are monkeys?

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So now athiests are monkeys?

 

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Aren't we all?

 

Oh wait, some people don't believe in science.

 

:D

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hmm... 3 people in a row who refuse to answer my monkey question

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hmm... 3 people in a row who refuse to answer my monkey question

 

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You should change your name to Scopes.

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hmm... 3 people in a row who refuse to answer my monkey question

 

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Before I answer it, please tell me if the monkey has a conscience.

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Before I answer it, please tell me if the monkey has a conscience.

 

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I also would like to know if the monkey was raised in a religious household.

Edited by cre8tiff

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hmm... 3 people in a row who refuse to answer my monkey question

 

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Seriously - unless you are saying that monkeys and human beings are the same intellectually/emotionally/ethically, who cares about the answer to yout f-ing monkey question?

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amazing, you guys all loved the monkey example and how it could help us to understand human behavior when it was first posted, but now for some reason you don't think it is valid anymore. :D

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amazing, you guys all loved the monkey example and how it could help us to understand human behavior when it was first posted, but now for some reason you don't think it is valid anymore.  :D

 

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I refuse to acknowlege that I "loved the monkey".

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amazing, you guys all loved the monkey example and how it could help us to understand human behavior when it was first posted, but now for some reason you don't think it is valid anymore.  :D

 

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:D i, for one, welcome our simian overlords

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

wait, has that joke been used yet? :D

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