Squeegiebo Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Yo, Mr. History! Texas was part of the CSA! 1399301[/snapback] He came from the pre-pc time when all schools taught was math and science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 This oughtta be good. 5 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users) 4 Members: tbimm, Chavez, I think I love you, but what am I so afraid of?, DMD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 SB - you're entirely missing the point of this thread. 1399283[/snapback] You're typing to fast..Dont forget hes a southerner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 DMD> :duck!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 The guy wearing the flag as a cape amuses me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 He came from the pre-pc time when all schools taught was math and science. 1399305[/snapback] Nah, I just don't bother to learn much about second-rate loser countries that only existed for 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 The "confederate" flag is a much maligned and misunderstood symbol that through the years has come to mean wildly different things to different people. Those unaware, unfamiliar or ignorant of the south naturally assume that the "confederate" flag is a symbol of racism and slavery. The flag which was pointed out was not the flag of the confederate states. The flag popularly known as the confederate flag was merely a battle flag used in some instances. It was only used in battle while many states adopted new flags as a part of the confederacy and actually carried those into battle, not the familiar "southern cross" flag. The 1861 flag of the confederacy was the "stars and bars" as seen here. Here is a short article about the different flags of the confederacy. The first true flag of the south/confederacy was the "Bonnie Blue" as seen here. that was replaced in 1861 by the "stars and bars". The Bonnie Blue even had a song as seen here. Notice that neither that song, nor the song "Dixie" makes any mention of slavery or "white" people. The battle flag - which was not an "official" flag of anything other than which side you were on during a battle - has retained it's place in society because there has been no confederacy since 1865. I went to Robert E. Lee High School (there are many in the south) and we banned "rebel" flags around 1975 or so because it became a polarizing symbol in the era of civil rights. Prior to that, it was our school flag and "rebels" were our mascot. That was changed to "Red Raiders" because we started to have race riots and such. They still have a civil war cannon that is shot everytime we scored a touchdown. To me, there are three schools of thought surrounding the "southern cross": 1. It is viewed by non-southerners as a negative symbol which they perceive to represent people who are racists and bigots. People who they believe are rednecks (said in a negative way) and that are backwards thinking. 2. It is viewed by some people (regardless of where they live) as s symbol of "white power" and racist views. These are people who consider the color of their skin that they received genetically at birth as the greatest accomplishment in the life and want to pretend that something so basic and meaningless infuses meaning into their otherwise inconsequential and meaningless lives. They have no strengths to speak of so they take the lowest possible common denominator and pretend this makes them special which is both amazing and sad. 3. It is viewed by some and probably most southerners as a symbol of heritage and identification with an area of the country that has particular manners, culture, dialect, cuisine and geography. It is a symbol of self-reliance and individualism and standing up against oppression. It actually has nothing to do with racism or slavery just as it did not for the majority of southerners who fought for it. I grew up in the south and I live in the south. Northeast Texas is probably more "southern" than it is "Texan". And the southern cross was a popular symbol where I grew up as an identifier of being in the south (and personally going to a high school that was related to it). But I would not fly that flag or even display it anymore because of all the people that fall into #1 and #2 above and who would make an incorrect and misguided assumption about me. It is a shame that it has been co-opted as a symbol of something quite different than it meant to those who fought below it but there are as many southerners as northerners to blame for that. As an American I am sensitive to that and have to respect it as silly as it has all become. People tend to prefer to use stereotypes and appropriate icons so they do not have to think or look below the surface of things. Just the way it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 SB - you're entirely missing the point of this thread. 1399283[/snapback] Are you surprised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Are you surprised? 1399349[/snapback] I'm surprised that DMD did too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 I'm surprised that DMD did too. 1399357[/snapback] I realize the original point - just a hot button with me after living in California for 20 years and finally giving up trying to explain or educate people who did not actually understand things, they just made incorrect assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 To be serious, I can understand why a non-racist southerner would want to proudly show his heritage by displaying a popular symbol. It's to some extent unfortunate that the flag (which is a thoroughly fantastic design aesthectically - Madison Ave admen probably wish they could come up with a design that striking) has been STRONGLY appropriated by the white supremacist/KKK type movements. But as it stands, by flying the flag, a person appears to at best be blissfully ignorant of the current implications or at worst a screamin' bigot. Not exactly a continuum I'd feel comfortable being placed on but others' mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Or to make the point using an equally powerful symbol, THIS was used to symbolize "to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck." for roughly 3000 years. But something tells me DMD and WW would be a tad upset if a cabal of prominent posters appropriated it as a group avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 I realize the original point - just a hot button with me after living in California for 20 years and finally giving up trying to explain or educate people who did not actually understand things, they just made incorrect assumptions. 1399360[/snapback] So Wiegie's the one around here who know how to push DMD's hot buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 I am completely disgusted that there are people here in our country who would fly another country’s flag in obvious attempt at disrespecting America and what it stands for. Yes, I realize that your heritage is important to you, but this is America, so respect America. Yes, I realize that if a war had gone differently more than a hundred years ago that perhaps your flag would be the official one for the area you live in, but guess what, you lost! Get over it and learn to love America or get the hell out! A perfect example of what I am talking about. It’s sickening. 1399211[/snapback] i saw that coming before i even opened the thread. so tell me...am i supposed to be equally tolerant of both groups or equally disdainful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 so tell me...am i supposed to be equally tolerant of both groups or equally disdainful? 1399367[/snapback] I thought you were equally disdainful of all people who are not you, you soul ripper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Or to make the point using an equally powerful symbol, THIS was used to symbolize "to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck." for roughly 3000 years. But something tells me DMD and WW would be a tad upset if a cabal of prominent posters appropriated it as a group avatar. 1399362[/snapback] Yes, the swastika is a definite "outside the lines" symbol. My son was very interested in WWII growing up and one day he was outside with his friends (maybe 4 or 5 years old) and they were using sidewalk chalk. Our neighbor across the street called us later than afternoon to ask us if we were aware there were stars (american) and swastikas (german) all over our sidewalk in front of our house. Thank goodness a hose can get rid of that stuff quickly... :doah: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Yes, the swastika is a definite "outside the lines" symbol. 1399369[/snapback] That's because so many ignorant people do not understand its other meanings, and just make incorrect assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBalla Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 (edited) The guy wearing the flag as a cape amuses me. 1399325[/snapback] Me too. Are you surprised? 1399349[/snapback] I'm surprised that DMD did too. 1399357[/snapback] So what was the point I missed then? I doubt we missed the point. To be serious, I can understand why a non-racist southerner would want to proudly show his heritage by displaying a popular symbol. It's to some extent unfortunate that the flag (which is a thoroughly fantastic design aesthectically - Madison Ave admen probably wish they could come up with a design that striking) has been STRONGLY appropriated by the white supremacist/KKK type movements. But as it stands, by flying the flag, a person appears to at best be blissfully ignorant of the current implications or at worst a screamin' bigot. Not exactly a continuum I'd feel comfortable being placed on but others' mileage may vary. 1399361[/snapback] My father in law taght at Robert E. Lee High...is he a racist or blissfully ignorant? The confederacy and its baggage is a part of our life... Edited April 2, 2006 by SuperBalla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 I realize the original point - just a hot button with me after living in California for 20 years and finally giving up trying to explain or educate people who did not actually understand things, they just made incorrect assumptions. 1399360[/snapback] Now you are bashing California? That's what I'd expect from a confederate flag lover anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Yes, the swastika is a definite "outside the lines" symbol. 1399369[/snapback] But a symbol that has a similar set of negative connotations is allowed and even defended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 My father in law taght at Robert E. Lee High...is he a racist or blissfully ignorant? The confederacy and its baggage is a part of our life... 1399371[/snapback] How would you feel about German children being educated at "Irwin Rommel Middle School"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 This is heading for a big old This is exactly the problem. When anything is incendiary to some, it cannot be allowed here regardless of what it means to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Whatever; count Texas then. It's turning into a suburb of Mexico these days anyway. 1399302[/snapback] Plus, dont forget our reparations!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 This is heading for a big old This is exactly the problem. When anything is incendiary to some, it cannot be allowed here regardless of what it means to others. 1399382[/snapback] So no confederate flag or Cowboys star avatars anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 This is heading for a big old This is exactly the problem. When anything is incendiary to some, it cannot be allowed here regardless of what it means to others. 1399382[/snapback] Ok. sorry dude. We can leave Texas out of it. Is that better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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