sarge5121976 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 And you are? 1482982[/snapback] No one, I guess Seriously dude, I do a lot more reading on this site than I do giving my opinion. You say you hate Rasheed , probably because he is too cocky for you, but I see no differance between him and you. You sound cocky too, just by reading some of your posts. (Are you a legend in your own mind?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 (edited) Darin Let me know when you are on Yahoo IM tonight watching the game so I can give you a big fat DEEEEETROIT BASKETBALL. I want to hear the shoe through the tube crash. Edited May 23, 2006 by chiefjay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 No one, I guess Seriously dude, I do a lot more reading on this site than I do giving my opinion. You say you hate Rasheed , probably because he is too cocky for you, but I see no differance between him and you. You sound cocky too, just by reading some of your posts. (Are you a legend in your own mind?) 1483091[/snapback] It is not hard to see why others hate Rasheed, he gets lots of technicals, he shoots dumb 3's at times which keeps him away from the rim which gives the other team a much better shot at the rebound(Thank goodness for Ben Wallace). I know when he was on portland, I was not his biggest fan. but, his teammmates everywhere he has played has loved him, his interior defense is awesome. and he plays smart team ball and was willing to tone down his shots/stats for the good of the team when he came here. I love Sheed now , but I do wish he would calm his temper down on the court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Point taken on Rasheed. I happen to Love the bad boys and the Mason / Oakley knicks. I think its a west coast east coast thing. You probably prefer a fast break type of Basketball..I think the state of basketball is in the crapper based on the Starberry mentality..Its pretty evident by our team USA performances that are all about showboating and no one plays D. A lot of the europeans are bringing back some of the fundamentals IMO other then that I welcome Detroit type of hoops. By no means am I a major hoops fan and I cant go toe to toe with an avid Basketball fan but from a laymans POV Pistons basketball is beautiful.. 1483070[/snapback] whomp - while I totally respect your opinion, I have to wholeheartedly disagree in context; basketball is meant to be an OPEN type of sport... fast-paced, high-energy... YES, defense is important... but in theory, tough defense was revered because it allowed teams to stop their opponents and quickly move the ball down the court for a score (see: Los Angeles Lakers, circa 1985... the Lakers' D was STIFLING, but they still ran). The Pistons/Knicks, while good defenders in theory, were also DIRTY... Mahorn, Laimbeer, Oakley, the list goes on. These teams CHANGED the landscape of the NBA. It was no longer JUST solid defense. It was solid defense with dirty play as a fall-back. It's not west coast vs. east coast. The Celtics of the 80's (and even before) played an "open" style. The Knicks during the 70's... good, solid defense.. but an impressive offense. There are plenty of other examples. But, yeah... believe me, I am totally anti-Starbury and me-first in terms of how the NBA operates now. The problems with "USA Basketball" (Olympics, etc.) is certainly the "team concept" problem... I think "west coast" teams like the Mavs and Spurs are now getting it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 No one, I guess Seriously dude, I do a lot more reading on this site than I do giving my opinion. You say you hate Rasheed , probably because he is too cocky for you, but I see no differance between him and you. You sound cocky too, just by reading some of your posts. (Are you a legend in your own mind?) 1483091[/snapback] Nah, I only said that 'cuz you seemed to have me pegged as a Laker fan. Sure, I was rooting for the Lakers a few years ago against the Peestons, but that's about where my loyalty stops. They lost me when Showtime ended. Didn't mean to sound cocky. But yes, I do know my hoops. I hate Rasheed 'cuz he can't control his temper. Oh, and because he oozes talent, but his temper AND cockiness, to a degree, get in the way. He epitomizes all which is wrong with the NBA right now. Dude, even the geeky TNT announcers agree with me; Rasheed is THE weak link in the Piston armor, team-wise. Look, you have a guy like Billups, who was discarded by how many teams? Tayshaun Prince, totally underrated. Ben Wallace, a 6'8" guy playing All-Star level center. Rip Hamilton, totally fundamentally sound... a nice bench with McDyess, etc.... and Rasheed. You must see my point here. In fact, just see Doc's post, below... Darin Let me know when you are on Yahoo IM tonight watching the game so I can give you a big fat DEEEEETROIT BASKETBALL. I want to hear the shoe through the tube crash. 1483141[/snapback] It is not hard to see why others hate Rasheed, he gets lots of technicals, he shoots dumb 3's at times which keeps him away from the rim which gives the other team a much better shot at the rebound(Thank goodness for Ben Wallace). I know when he was on portland, I was not his biggest fan. but, his teammmates everywhere he has played has loved him, his interior defense is awesome. and he plays smart team ball and was willing to tone down his shots/stats for the good of the team when he came here. I love Sheed now , but I do wish he would calm his temper down on the court. 1483170[/snapback] Again, oodles of talent, but dumb mistakes, arrogance and temper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 Darin - Now that I've got to watch Rasheed up close for a couple of years, I've completely changed my tune on him. I do not think he epitomizes what is wrong with the NBA at all. Dude doesn't get in trouble at all off the court. He's very emotional on the court and when things go against him, he can't reign in his idiotic responses. But at the same time, he usually looks like he's having a great time playing, smiles a lot, etc. He is not the weak link on this team. He was the missing link that brought the Pistons the championship two years ago and within a minute of another last year (of course he personally screwed up at the end of game 7 last year). He is a great teammate from everything I read and hear. They always go to bat for him. Larry Brown gets a ton of credit for the two years the Pistons had in '04 and '05. I think Rasheed deserves as much or more than Brown. Having said all that, he f'n pisses me off when he gets those technical fouls. A lot of times, they are at the worse times of a game. And I wish he would play more with his back to the basket. But those are his biggest negatives, which I will take given the interior defense he provides. I was worried as hell when he arrived from Portland. That team had a bunch of 'bad seeds' and Rasheed seemed to be the biggest of them all. Hasn't turned out that way at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 He is not the weak link on this team. He was the missing link that brought the Pistons the championship two years ago and within a minute of another last year (of course he personally screwed up at the end of game 7 last year). He is a great teammate from everything I read and hear. They always go to bat for him. Larry Brown gets a ton of credit for the two years the Pistons had in '04 and '05. I think Rasheed deserves as much or more than Brown. 1483294[/snapback] Exactly..and as far as Brown goes..I give that credit to carlisle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Darin - Now that I've got to watch Rasheed up close for a couple of years, I've completely changed my tune on him. I do not think he epitomizes what is wrong with the NBA at all. Dude doesn't get in trouble at all off the court. He's very emotional on the court and when things go against him, he can't reign in his idiotic responses. But at the same time, he usually looks like he's having a great time playing, smiles a lot, etc. He is not the weak link on this team. He was the missing link that brought the Pistons the championship two years ago and within a minute of another last year (of course he personally screwed up at the end of game 7 last year). He is a great teammate from everything I read and hear. They always go to bat for him. Larry Brown gets a ton of credit for the two years the Pistons had in '04 and '05. I think Rasheed deserves as much or more than Brown. Having said all that, he f'n pisses me off when he gets those technical fouls. A lot of times, they are at the worse times of a game. And I wish he would play more with his back to the basket. But those are his biggest negatives, which I will take given the interior defense he provides. I was worried as hell when he arrived from Portland. That team had a bunch of 'bad seeds' and Rasheed seemed to be the biggest of them all. Hasn't turned out that way at all. 1483294[/snapback] OK I'll agree with a good bulk of what you're saying here. You surely had the right to be worried when he came over from Portland. Sure, his teammates are gonna go to bat for him... why wouldn't they? The Pistons DO epitomize the team concept; this is something I will completely agree with. So of course they're gonna treat their fellow teammates with the utmost of respect. The TNT commentators had it pegged, though: Rasheed is the odd man out, when you take a step back and look at the sum of the parts. I'm not saying he's a bad player. I'm not saying he doesn't fit with the team. He's just different than any of the other Pistons. He has the pedigree (UNC) and talent. Look at the other guys on the team. Yeah, Prince has the pedigree, but has been totally underrated. Ben Wallace is ... well ... Ben Wallace. Chauncey Billups, cast off by many a team (cough, Pitino). Rip Hamilton is always forgotten when you talk about the cream of the crop in the NBA. Maybe it's just me, but I would like the Pistons 3819059137508613956135013691357 times more if Rasheed Wallace, with his "ME? NO WAY! I NEVER FOUL ANYONE!" face were not there. I dig Billups and Rip. Ben Wallace is a freak. So yeah, ditch that whiney bassturd. Oh, and tell that stupid-ass announcer to shut the fruck up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 The TNT commentators had it pegged, though: Rasheed is the odd man out, when you take a step back and look at the sum of the parts. I'm not saying he's a bad player. I'm not saying he doesn't fit with the team. He's just different than any of the other Pistons. He has the pedigree (UNC) and talent. Look at the other guys on the team. Yeah, Prince has the pedigree, but has been totally underrated. Ben Wallace is ... well ... Ben Wallace. Chauncey Billups, cast off by many a team (cough, Pitino). Rip Hamilton is always forgotten when you talk about the cream of the crop in the NBA. 1483338[/snapback] If I was gonna pick 1 starter to leave the team it would be Billups. Not that I do not like Billups, he is a fine player..I just think we would miss him the least. he is the guy who makes the most defensve errors and as long as we got 3 guys like Wallace,Wallace and Prince who can take over games defensively and Hamilton ,who is 1 of the top 5 pure shooters in the league..we can make/trade/draft another good PG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 If I was gonna pick 1 starter to leave the team it would be Billups. Not that I do not like Billups, he is a fine player..I just think we would miss him the least. he is the guy who makes the most defensve errors and as long as we got 3 guys like Wallace,Wallace and Prince who can take over games defensively and Hamilton ,who is 1 of the top 5 pure shooters in the league..we can make/trade/draft another good PG. 1483374[/snapback] Sorry Doc, can't agree with you here. Billups was the main reason we won 64 games this year. I think (with all due respect to Ben Wallace) that he is the undisputed leader on the team. He's the guy not afraid to take the big shot at any point of the game. They all have their role, and I'd hate to see any of them leave. But Chauncey's the glue of the team (although he played his worst in the Cavs series). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Sorry Doc, can't agree with you here. Billups was the main reason we won 64 games this year. I think (with all due respect to Ben Wallace) that he is the undisputed leader on the team. He's the guy not afraid to take the big shot at any point of the game. They all have their role, and I'd hate to see any of them leave. But Chauncey's the glue of the team (although he played his worst in the Cavs series). 1483443[/snapback] IMO he was lucky to land on a defensive minded team that did not want a true PG but a SG to play PG. All that being said, he has transformed himself into a fine PG...but when we won are championship with this current team, our actual PG was Prince..he was the guy who brought the ball up the court while Billups ran around looking for shots like a SG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) I still don't know how they manage to win without Carlos Whatshisname. 1480622[/snapback] Alright, smartass... Did a little digging. According to Basketball-Reference.com, which is THE source for any and all hoops stats past and present (in fact, their sister sites Football-Reference.com and Baseball-Reference.com are equally as good), Carlos "Whatshisname" was the 87TH RANKED PLAYER in terms of "Player Efficiency Rating" (minimum 1,000 minutes played). Since I'm guessing you have no idea what that is, it's a way of rating players based on minutes played. John Hollinger, who is regarded as a statistical genius in and around the industry, came up with the concept in the late 80's. NBA teams use this model in analyzing trades; I know this for a fact. So it's not some goofy fantasy dork statistical model. Click here for details... Arroyo checks in with a 15.62 PER. While this number is not incredible by any means, it ranks up there with guys like Josh Smith, Kirk Hinrich, Ricky Davis and Earl Boykins. Lindsey Hunter didn't even crack the top-100. Not sure if this link will work... but if it does, there's your top 100 for 2006. Anything else? Edited May 25, 2006 by darin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Maybe it's just me, but I would like the Pistons 3819059137508613956135013691357 times more if Rasheed Wallace, with his "ME? NO WAY! I NEVER FOUL ANYONE!" face were not there. 1483338[/snapback] You must really hate Tim Duncan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 You must really hate Tim Duncan. 1489549[/snapback] Actually, before I blocked Pvt. Goofball, I told him that I was starting to hate the Spurs as much as I hate the Peestons. I'm actually taking a liking to the Mavs. Love Avery Johnson - loved him as a player, really love him as a coach. Love my German countryman Nowitzki. Howard is a stud... etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 If I was gonna pick 1 starter to leave the team it would be Billups. Not that I do not like Billups, he is a fine player..I just think we would miss him the least. he is the guy who makes the most defensve errors and as long as we got 3 guys like Wallace,Wallace and Prince who can take over games defensively and Hamilton ,who is 1 of the top 5 pure shooters in the league..we can make/trade/draft another good PG. 1483374[/snapback] Just reading this.....WOW- is this a joke? former finals MVP- a solid MVP candidate this year- what in the world are you talking about?? You feel Det. could use him least of the starting 5? No way- this is Scottie Pippen crazy talk. This league is ruled by quality guard play- Billups is a stud, and makes your squad go. You have it 100% backwards- they need him the MOST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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