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Chavez

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You left wing ass clowns have turned a human rights issue, that of the unborn human, into a woman's rights issue, that of the sinner who now doesnt want to own up to her responsibilites. Typical liberal tripe. Screw over one group of people so some other people can sit on their ass and not be inconvenienced by personal responsibility. Typical Democrat baby murdering fools...

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You may have addressed this but I take it you do not allow for exceptions for rape, incest, health of the mother?

 

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i would be open to allowing these exceptions, each to be evaluated individually.

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:D  it's an endless loop!

science continues to confirm that there are life activities that start at conception.  not long after that you have a beating heart and a body forming.  this is at the core of the abortion debate and we won't resolve that debate here.

 

this bent towards individual liberty, however, doesn't really make sense.  by protecting a little window during which it is ok to terminate an underdeveloped human being, are you really serving the cause of individual liberty?  you acknowledge that later in the process, the government can then "grab control."  again, to be on the pure side of individual liberty, you would have to side with the individual liberty of that developing, innocent person who deserves to live.  sure, it is an inconvenience to the mother to carry for 9 months, but she did get pregnant and should have to deal with her decision responsibly.  she can give up the child for adoption and her everyone's individual liberties are protected.

 

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you know what. keep your arguments about beating hearts and human potential and the need to protect life at all costs and they make sense. they're compelling arguments. but don't pretend that the government seizing control over any moral decision is an exercise in expanding individual liberty, because it simply is NOT. just be honest, that's all i'm asking. argue that the government needs to reach into a woman's womb to protect the unborn because life is precious and must be protected. i almost agree with you. but PLEASE, for the sake of intelligent discussion, do not try and argue that reaching into the woman's womb is an act of governmental restraint. it is the opposite. that act of intervention may be morally necessary -- as i get older i think that way more and more, and wouldn't be surprised if someday my urgings in that direction become stronger than my libertarian urgings on this issue. but it's still clearly an act of government intervention (the opposite of restraint), and if my position ever DOES change i sure as hell won't be trying to argue that it isn't.

Edited by Azazello1313

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i would be open to allowing these exceptions, each to be evaluated individually.

 

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Why is the fetus of a rape less innocent?

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Life activities?

 

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heart beating, blood flowing, brain forming ... that life stuff.

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You haven't read the whole thread yet.  We've already turned Doc into an illegal Holliday on that one.

 

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:D

 

Now what happened?..you guys boot me out of the country? :D

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Playing Devil's Advocate here...if the Gubbamint did protect the Fetus...who would be responsible for the children that were delivered yet abandoned by the mother who didn't want the child to begin with? For instance...could we evolve into pursuing criminal charges against women that intentionally smoke or drink while bearing? I know it is off...but I am trying to think of this intrusion the Gov't could potentially have gained?

 

 

Shoo. The grownups are talking. We all know you dont believe individual liberty and freedoms. No need to keep reminding us.

 

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What ever you fektard eunuch. Shouldn't you be scratching yer ear with yer hind leg for fleas?

Edited by SuperBalla

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Why is the fetus of a rape less innocent?

 

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it isn't.

 

these are tough, tough choices. i'm not an absolute pro-lifer (despite my arguments - i just like to present the other side and get az all worked up). i don't know if it is right in the entire scheme of things, but i do see a difference between a rape and carelessness. deformation/retardation is another special case.

 

abortions should happen in the rarest of cases with each case to be evaluated (including the parents if a minor is involved). i would like to always see the push toward adoption as the solution and the ability to get an abortion after having consenting sex removed as an option (probably not possible).

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What ever you fektard eunuch. Shouldn't you be scratching yer ear with yer hind leg for fleas?

 

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you're confusing hyenas with dogs. hyenas like skins scratch with their mock-peeenis.

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fektard eunuch

 

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this is my new name for skins. pure genius. bringing those two words together is better than joining peanut butter and chocolate.

 

:D

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I know it is off...but I am trying to think of this intrusion the Gov't could potentially have gained?

 

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Not sure what you're asking but letting the religious right and wacknut Republicans control my wife's reproductive system is more than enough intrusion for me.

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Not sure what you're asking but letting the religious right and wacknut Republicans control my wife's reproductive system is more than enough intrusion for me.

 

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Letting liberal judges allow some citizens murder other citizens without repurcussion is worse....

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As a very conservative individual I am actually against anti-abortion laws. What business is a woman's hoo-ha hole to the government? What business is a woman's hoo-ha hole to you (arbitrarily speaking)? I feel like the decision should be made by the individual so they can personally weigh the pros and cons of the abortion. I don't want the gummerment to have its say in a highly personal matter such as this one.

 

BTW... my family has some stake in the subject. I would have had an older sibling but there was a risk my mom wouldn't have made it. She had recently been diagnosed with diabetes and needed to get her body adjusted to whatever medication they had 20+ years ago. Luckily my parents were able to make a dreadfully hard decision without some government official saying they don't have a choice.

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As a very conservative individual I am actually against anti-abortion laws. What business is a woman's hoo-ha hole to the government? What business is a woman's hoo-ha hole to you (arbitrarily speaking)? I feel like the decision should be made by the individual so they can personally weigh the pros and cons of the abortion. I don't want the gummerment to have its say in a highly personal matter such as this one.

 

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:sigh:

 

again, the debate should not be about the woman's organs. it is about whether the fetus represents a human life that should be protected, imo.

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:sigh:

 

again, the debate should not be about the woman's organs.  it is about whether the fetus represents a human life that should be protected, imo.

 

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I'm not going to argue whether my point of view is right or not... I'm not going to pursuade anyone anyways. I was just throwin in my 2 cents.

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Isn't it, at a minimum, intellectually dishonest, and at its worst, hypocritical, to be against abortion except in the case of rape/incest? If killing an unborn fetus is equivalent to the murder of a human life, how is it okay to commit this murder because the life was conceived through rape?

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again, the debate should not be about the woman's organs.  it is about whether the fetus represents a human life that should be protected, imo.

 

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No, the debate is whether the government has a right to dictate legalities over a voluntarily sought out medical procedure.

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Isn't it, at a minimum, intellectually dishonest, and at its worst, hypocritical, to be against abortion except in the case of rape/incest?  If killing an unborn fetus is equivalent to the murder of a human life, how is it okay to commit this murder because the life was conceived through rape?

 

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i don't know what "intellectually dishonest" means, but it probably is hypocritical, or inconsistent. in the absolute, it would always be about protecting life, regardless of how it is created. personally, i'm not in the camp of protecting life at all costs.

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No, the debate is whether the government has a right to dictate legalities over a voluntarily sought out medical procedure.

 

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medical procedure ... right.

 

::D

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Isn't it, at a minimum, intellectually dishonest, and at its worst, hypocritical, to be against abortion except in the case of rape/incest?  If killing an unborn fetus is equivalent to the murder of a human life, how is it okay to commit this murder because the life was conceived through rape?

 

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Dude, this should not have to be explained to anyone.

 

You think a mom should be reminded about how she was raped everytime she looks at her child?

 

Anyone who uses this as their "for" reason for abortion is not thinking it over whatsoever.

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Dude, this should not have to be explained to anyone.

 

You think a mom should be reminded about how she was raped everytime she looks at her child?

 

Anyone who uses this as their "for" reason for abortion is not thinking it over whatsoever.

 

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Dude, I'm not saying I'm for or against abortion. Pull up a thread where I have ever said I am for or against abortion.

 

Dude, what I am saying is that if someone is "pro-life" and equates abortion to murder, how is it acceptable to commit murder simply because the child was conceived through rape?

 

Could you answer that question, using really simple terms, so that I can understand, dude?

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Letting liberal judges allow some citizens murder other citizens without repurcussion is worse....

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Great point except abortion isn't murder or even against the law. And the liberal judge, isn't forcing anyone's beliefs onto my wife's reproductive system. Meh....at least you don't claim to be a libertarian anymore. :D

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Any political thread is good for 200 posts aren't they :D

 

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This isn't political! We are talking about a Marine defending himself... :D

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