WSOP Update

[muck]

I was wrong about Cunningham and Gold sitting by letting the others battle it out for the final table...

 

Cunningham just took about $3.5 million from Gold. Then, about 10 minutes later, Gold takes $350k of it back.

[muck]

Full update on all 12 players:

 

1Jamie Gold29,000,000

2Allen Cunningham16,200,000

3Paul Wasicka8,000,000

4Erik Friberg6,700,000

5Richard Lee5,390,000

6Rhett Butler5,200,000

7Dan Nassif4,300,000

7Doug Kim4,300,000

9Fred Goldberg3,750,000

10Michael Binger3,500,000

11John Magill2,600,000

12Leif Force2,300,000

[muck]

I just had a thought about PokerStars and the other sites that really want to sign a marketing deal w/ the Main Event winner ...

 

What happens if the winner is a guy with a MAJOR accent ... pretty much unintelligible? LoL! Not sure we have anyone like that left, but you know we probably had some participants who were in late in the play who were fluent in Chinese, but knew very little English...

 

Can you imagine those ad agency trying to do something with that? LMAO!

Edited August 9, 2006 by muck

[muck]

John Magill just busted out in 12th place.

 

He's cashing for $1,154,527.

[wildcat2334]

Interesting read on Jamie Gold, among other things playing for the competition, but does not want to be famous... understandable. Also mentions possibly wanting to finish 2nd instead of 1st- not sure why he would say that, maybe some psych going on. A little strange though b/c if he did laydown in the ME- he would be even more famous, and he is getting there by the hour as it is. Interesting guy though for sure.

 

Also, below a cool read on Leif Force- who is looking at 11th at worst. Guy made it thru the first 2 days by playing 4 hands. Talk about tight- worked though as he is now a millionaire at 23. Laid down KK,QQ, etc in spots he thought he may be the dog. WOW. Gonna go play a few hands I think......

 

Jamie Gold & The Force

[muck]

Lief Force just busted in 11th.

 

1Jamie Gold26,700,000

2Allen Cunningham17,700,000

3Richard Lee7,800,000

4Dan Nassif7,400,000

5Doug Kim6,540,000

6Paul Wasicka5,600,000

7Erik Friberg5,060,000

8Fred Goldberg3,900,000

9Rhett Butler3,820,000

10Michael Binger3,800,000

[muck]

Final Table Seating and Chips

 

Players are back from break and here is the final table seating and chips:

 

Seat 1 - Richard Lee $8,465,000

Seat 2 - Erik Friberg $5,905,000

Seat 3 - Paul Wasicka $4,750,000

Seat 4 - Dan Nassif $5,865,000

Seat 5 - Allen Cunningham $18,000,000

Seat 6 - Michael Binger $3,640,000

Seat 7 - Doug Kim $6,190,000

Seat 8 - Fred Goldberg $4,265,000

Seat 9 - Jamie Gold $27,330,000

Seat 10 - Rhett Butler $5,165,000

[muck]

BTW, tomorrow is an off-day for the players...gives them a day of rest before final action on Thursday.

[muck]

I'm heading to bed:

 

1Jamie Gold27,600,000

2Allen Cunningham18,600,000

3Erik Friberg7,700,000

4Richard Lee7,465,000

5Doug Kim6,600,000

6Dan Nassif5,865,000

7Rhett Butler5,165,000

8Paul Wasicka4,750,000

9Fred Goldberg4,265,000

10Michael Binger3,640,000

[muck]

Of the final 10 players, here are their career poker winnings (according to CardPlayer.com):

 

Of the final 16 players (Jeffrey Lisandro just busted out, fyi), the "lifetime winnings" (as defined at CardPlayer.com) are:

 

Jamie Gold $92,758

Allen Cunningham $4,277,901

Dan Nassif $0

Rhett Butler $0

Michael Binger $106,935 ($101,750 of that came in an earlier event at this years WSOP)

Doug Kim $0

Paul Wasicka $237,961 (including about $65k of cash from two earlier events this year)

Richard Lee $5,600

Erik Friberg $0

Fred Goldberg $23,128 (including $7,418 from a small cash at an earlier WSOP even this year)

[Easy n Dirty]

Interesting blog comment from Richard "Quiet Lion" Brodie, original writer of the MS Word program, now retired with his millions and playing alot of poker tournaments:

 

"The total chip count reported in PokerWire for the final 27 players in the 2006 WSOP main event is 88,246,000. That is 516,000 more than the total starting chips for 8773 entrants. It is impossible that so many chips were added simply due to rounding up in chip races.

 

If the PokerWire chip count is accurate, where did the extra chips come from? That is some serious cheating."

 

By "chip races", I think he means small amounts of extra chips that can be added at the end of each day when players "color up".

[Easy n Dirty]

Final table and chip counts:

 

Seat 1 - Richard Lee - 11,820,000

Seat 2 - Erik Friberg - 9,605,000

Seat 3 - Paul Wasicka - 7,970,000

Seat 4 - Dan Nassif- 2,600,000

Seat 5 - Allen Cunningham - 17,770,000

Seat 6 - Michael Binger - 3,140,000

Seat 7 - Doug Kim - 6,770,000

Seat 8 - Jamie Gold - 25,650,000

Seat 9 - Rhett Butler - 4,815,000

 

 

Total chips in play has now grown to 90,140,000. The event had 8,773 entrants at 10k chips each, or 87,730,000 chips total. So there are now another 2,410,000 chips in play? And 1,894,000 of those were added while norrowing the field from 27 to 9.

 

I suspect the answer may be as simple as pokerwire's chip counts are off. It is kind of intriguing though.

[spain]

When do they start and where can you order it live ppv?

[TDFFFreak]

When do they start and where can you order it live ppv?

 

Look on DirectTV pay per view. It should be there. Thursday.

Edited August 9, 2006 by TDFFFreak

[Big Country]

By "chip races", I think he means small amounts of extra chips that can be added at the end of each day when players "color up".

 

 

Yup, chip races are done when a denomination of chip will no longer be used in the tourney. After coloring up all the ships that each player can, they then race off the others for chips.

 

For example, when coloring up from 25 to 100 value chips, all left overs stay wit hthe players. The dealer then deals out cards to each player (if you had 3 25 chips left you get 3 cards, 1 card left, you get 1 card). Say there were 14 25 chips left over.... the players receiving the 4 highest cards each get a 100 chip (a player can only get one chip, so even if they have 3 25 chips and get 3 aces, they only get one chip) You can see this added 50 in chip values to the tourney.

 

Multiply that by a couple hundred tables at that time, and figure out what happens when racing off the 1000 to 5000 or 5000 to 10000 or 25000 to 100000 and you see why a lot of chips can be getting added by the end of the tourney.

[Easy n Dirty]

Yup, chip races are done when a denomination of chip will no longer be used in the tourney. After coloring up all the ships that each player can, they then race off the others for chips.

 

For example, when coloring up from 25 to 100 value chips, all left overs stay wit hthe players. The dealer then deals out cards to each player (if you had 3 25 chips left you get 3 cards, 1 card left, you get 1 card). Say there were 14 25 chips left over.... the players receiving the 4 highest cards each get a 100 chip (a player can only get one chip, so even if they have 3 25 chips and get 3 aces, they only get one chip) You can see this added 50 in chip values to the tourney.

 

Multiply that by a couple hundred tables at that time, and figure out what happens when racing off the 1000 to 5000 or 5000 to 10000 or 25000 to 100000 and you see why a lot of chips can be getting added by the end of the tourney.

 

 

Understood, but this can in no way account for the number of extra chips which have appeared in play in the main event, in fact it's not even that close (again, assuming pokerwire's chip counts are correct - FWIW, cardplayer's final table chip counts are the same as pokerwire). If you're interested in the math, Brodie goes through it in his blog, here's what he says (this was written when they were down to 27 players, and there were 516k extra chips in play from the starting amount:

 

 

Chip Races

Why is it impossible that chip races added 514,000 in chip value to the WSOP main event?

 

The 25 chips were raced off during the split day 2, which began with fewer than 3500 players. If all 350 tables were still there and every one of them added the maximum 50 in chip value, that would add 17,500 to the event. Probably more than 1/4 of those tables had already broken and probably only 1/4 of the maximum 50 was added per table.

 

The 100 chips were raced off at the end of day 3, with 481 players remaining. If all 54 tables added the maximum 200 in chip value that would add 5400 to the event, but the expected add is zero.

 

The 500 chips were raced off with 288 players remaining. If all 32 tables added 500 that would add 16,000 to the event. The expected add is half that.

 

The 1000 chips were raced off with 49 players remaining. If all six tables added 2000 that would add 12,000 to the event. The expected add is zero.

 

So the very maximum possible in added chip value is 50,900.

 

Now it's still possible the listed chip count at the end of yesterday was inaccurate. But if not...where did the half million come from?

[skylive5]

So this Brodie guy is saying that there is some serious cheating going on in the Main Event. That players are adding to their chip totals with chips out of their pockets.

 

My question is.... with all the floor people, the cameras, and the attention the ME receives.... how are they adding 500grand in chips out of their pockets?

 

========================

Blinds are 1000/5000 Ante 1000.

 

(Everyone folds to this guy.)

 

I'm all in.

 

How much ya got?

 

417,000.

 

Hmmm... nah too rich for me.

 

(Next hand...)

 

(Everyone folds to this guy.)

 

(Same guy) I'm all in.

 

How much ya got?

 

635,000.

 

Hmmm... nah too rich for me.

========================

 

 

How do you not get caught cheating?

[Big Country]

I wasn't trying to say that the chips came from the races, just thought it appeared you were asking what exactly a chip race was and was confirming that what you thought was correct, then added a detailed explanation for the viewers at home that didn't know what we were talking about.

 

THat said, I say most likely an error from the main event staff on reporting the chip counts, that or they understated the number of starting players by 50 players or so, another potentially reasonable explanation

[skylive5]

That said, I say most likely an error from the main event staff on reporting the chip counts, that or they understated the number of starting players by 50 players or so, another potentially reasonable explanation.

 

 

 

You would have thought that Brodie would have researched and asked a few questions before he just comes out and baldly says there is cheating going on. Wouldn't you?

 

He's probably just PO'd cuz he didn't think of it.

[TimC]

Interesting read on Jamie Gold, among other things playing for the competition, but does not want to be famous... understandable. Also mentions possibly wanting to finish 2nd instead of 1st- not sure why he would say that, maybe some psych going on. A little strange though b/c if he did laydown in the ME- he would be even more famous, and he is getting there by the hour as it is. Interesting guy though for sure.

 

Also, below a cool read on Leif Force- who is looking at 11th at worst. Guy made it thru the first 2 days by playing 4 hands. Talk about tight- worked though as he is now a millionaire at 23. Laid down KK,QQ, etc in spots he thought he may be the dog. WOW. Gonna go play a few hands I think......

 

Jamie Gold & The Force

 

 

Interesting article. I could see where someone may tank it to 2nd place -- after all, $6,000,000 is enough coin to retire on -- if he were that private of a person. Didn't Moneymaker get divorced because of his poker fame? I think I read his wife didn't want to be married to a full-time traveling poker player. I'd win and then go into seclusion though.

[Easy n Dirty]

Interesting article. I could see where someone may tank it to 2nd place -- after all, $6,000,000 is enough coin to retire on -- if he were that private of a person. Didn't Moneymaker get divorced because of his poker fame? I think I read his wife didn't want to be married to a full-time traveling poker player. I'd win and then go into seclusion though.

 

 

 

I couldn't see tanking it at all, the difference between first and second is about $6m I think. $6m is plenty, but $12m is a whole lot better methinks.

 

I do remember however reading last year where Dannenman (sp?) was somewhat relived to finish second to Hachem in the main event, he may have even said something to that effect to Hachem afterwards. Apparently he felt a little awkward at potentially winning the whole thing as a decidedly amateur player against top professionals, especially since he had to get some lucky suck-outs to make it that far. An admirable sentiment, although I think the reality is that whoever makes it to the final table or further must have sucked out a couple times along the way.

 

I thought Dannanman came across as a bit of a clown on the final table telecast, but I've read some pretty positive stuff about the guy, including comments from a number of the pros stating that he has improved his game by leaps and bounds since that run in last year's main event (as opposed to Moneymaker, who is not highly regarded by other pros from what little I have seen).

[Easy n Dirty]

You would have thought that Brodie would have researched and asked a few questions before he just comes out and baldly says there is cheating going on. Wouldn't you?

 

He's probably just PO'd cuz he didn't think of it.

 

 

 

Ummmm...actually, in both excerpts that are posted from Brodie, he acknowledges that the explanation may be inaccurate chip counts. And as far as a discrepancy in the number of starting players, you would hope that they got that right since that pretty much determines the payouts.

 

I think Brodie raises a pretty valid point that is probably worthy of some sort of due diligence by Harrahs. I also know that they do have poker chips with magnetic chips in them which could be used to prevent any sort of cheating, if that is in fact what is going on here (I'm still fairly skeptical that some player or players got away with inserting additional chips into the tournament, but like Brodie asks, where did those extra half a million chips come from?). Seems like there's enough money at stake here, and certainly Harrahs makes enough money from this event, that they could invest in the magnetically identifiable chips for the main event at a minimum.

[TimC]

I guarantee you there is a ton of cheating going on there. From players passing chips back and forth to simply adding chips to marking cards. The prize is way too high to not have some type of collusion. Hopefully those guys suck at poker though.

 

They should really consider increasing the Main Event entry fee to $25k to cut the players down some.

[Easy n Dirty]

Missed wildcat's post earlier, very interesting articles on Gold and on Force. Good find, thanks.

[skylive5]

Ummmm...actually, in both excerpts that are posted from Brodie, he acknowledges that the explanation may be inaccurate chip counts. And as far as a discrepancy in the number of starting players, you would hope that they got that right since that pretty much determines the payouts.

 

I think Brodie raises a pretty valid point that is probably worthy of some sort of due diligence by Harrahs. I also know that they do have poker chips with magnetic chips in them which could be used to prevent any sort of cheating, if that is in fact what is going on here (I'm still fairly skeptical that some player or players got away with inserting additional chips into the tournament, but like Brodie asks, where did those extra half a million chips come from?). Seems like there's enough money at stake here, and certainly Harrahs makes enough money from this event, that they could invest in the magnetically identifiable chips for the main event at a minimum.

 

 

 

I guess my question is this then..... Did he address this with the WSOP people prior to blasting it over the airwaves? Did he address it with anyone before coming out with his blog? How do they get the chip counts to begin with.... do the players just say how much they have at the end of each session?

 

I would say that they got the starting amount of players correct. Can't seem them screwing up the total by 50 players.

 

So maybe Brodie should go back over each session end and check the chip counts versus what was supposed to be there and he could then tell when the extra chips were added. Because I too am skeptical of players adding that amount of chips.... that's a lot of cheating players.

 

Surely there are checks and balances in something as hugh as this event is.

 

Ah well.... they have all day today to come up with an explaination since today is a day off. Probably need to copy and past the counts shown now and check them against the starting totals tomm.