Bushey Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 if rutgers played every team in the big ten, they'd be at best .500............NC thoughts answered..........no offense to both louisville and WVU but they have no defense............. Besides your intimate feel for games that have not been played on a field, what other proof do you have that Rutgers would go .500 in the Big 10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalEmpire.com Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Your right with the blueprint on what teams from the "Big East" need to do to gain national recognition. That's exactly how Bobby Bowdin's Florida State & the Miami Hurricanes did it back in the 70's. They backed up their talk of "Any Time Any Place" by hitting the roads playing against the nations best without requiring a reciprocal home game. The problem with that today, at least in the SEC, is the conference now schedules 8 conference games vs say 6. Not too many teams want to add quality non conference opponents between conference games especially when ironically SOS is less important to the BCS standings. That's a stretch at best and plain wrong at worst. I'm not going to go out and say that Florida State and Miami NEVER took 2-for-1 deals or played road-only contracts, but the Seminoles and Canes were able to get home-and-home deals back in the 70's and 80's before the advent of the BCS monster. If you look over FSU's schedules in the 80's, most of their slate was made up of a few eventual Big East teams (Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Miami), some of their future ACC foes (Clemson, UNC), and a budding local rivalry with Florida. But the real kicker is getting games with existing big conference teams like LSU and South Carolina and an at-the-time relavent Southern Miss. I don't see evidence that Florida State had to go on the road without a return visit. So what changed between the 1980's rising of the Seminoles and the attempts by teams like Louisville, Boise State, Fresno State, etc doing it today? Ah yes, the "cahmpionship brilliance" that is the BCS. Face it, the BCS has changed the way that the game is played... and sadly it is to the further decrement of most football teams. Breaking through in this day and age isn't just an accomplishment; it's a miracle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalEmpire.com Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 PS - And with just a quick glance at Miami's old schedules, it is certainly not true that they had to hit the barnstorming tour to get high-quality opponents. Some of the HOME highlights (pre-championship, even): Florida State Boston College Penn State Florida Notre Dame (!! - you mean these guys used to play good opponents ON THE ROAD) Oklahoma Auburn Alabama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggsy Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 sorry you guys - its just a fact that the BE and ACC are inferior to the other 4 BCS conferences for this year and the last few years. It may not have been true way back when or even in the near future, but it is reality right now. Deal with it or you risk being called crazy, using one of the genrally accepted definitions of the term... I find it funny that the Big 10 keeps getting included in this "big 4" that everyone keeps referring to. This is a conference that has been relying solely on the reputations of TWO SCHOOLS, OSU and UM. Sure, Wisconsin is having a nice season this year and Penn St. had a surprisingly good season last years after years of mediocrity, but when was a team from the Big 10 other than OSU or UM truely relevant in the final standings? Keep beating up on Illinois and Indiana and patting yourselves on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalEmpire.com Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 your problem is asking the SEC- they are notorious for cupcake non confernce schedules Fine, then let's add these teams to the list: Georgia Tech Boston College Texas Tech Those are just a few of the non-SEC schools that have not only refused to schedule us, but BACKED out of existing deals. The Big Ten has not been immune to "missing phone calls", either, as our AD has mentioned Ohio State by name and most certainly Indiana as a pair of programs who aren't interested in drawing up a contract. Next explanation? PS - Doing a little re-reading, I should revise my statement about the SEC slightly. LSU has TENTATIVELY come to an agreement to play Louisville starting about 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWPFFL BrianW Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 I find it funny that the Big 10 keeps getting included in this "big 4" that everyone keeps referring to. This is a conference that has been relying solely on the reputations of TWO SCHOOLS, OSU and UM. Sure, Wisconsin is having a nice season this year and Penn St. had a surprisingly good season last years after years of mediocrity, but when was a team from the Big 10 other than OSU or UM truely relevant in the final standings? Keep beating up on Illinois and Indiana and patting yourselves on the back. Yeah Rutgers biggest non conference win was vs Illinois. Go figure. Admittedly this is a down year for the Big Ten with Iowa underachieving, Purdue basically down and out, and Penn State slumping offensively due to having a new QB, but Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Wisconsin would run away with the Big East crown this year. They all play whats called defense, you know, those 11 guys who keep other offenses out of the end zone. Hell your 4th best team Pittsburgh got smoked by Michigan State at home, who has a Big East style defense (ie None). Now, all that being said, I don't think the Big East is that bad. But there is no week to week grind like there is in those Big 4 conferences. Louisville is beating there chest about beating Miami. I don't know if anyone noticed, but this is the worst Miami team in almost a decade, Duke almost beat them for christs sake! Rutgers big non conference win, as I said before, was vs Illinois, the worst team in the Big Ten. And West Virginia is still trying to hang there hat on last years Sugar Bowl where they beat Georgia by THREE points and only outgained them by 1 yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 (edited) That's a stretch at best and plain wrong at worst. I'm not going to go out and say that Florida State and Miami NEVER took 2-for-1 deals or played road-only contracts, but the Seminoles and Canes were able to get home-and-home deals back in the 70's and 80's before the advent of the BCS monster. . LSU vs. Florida State played 5 straight years in Baton Rouge starting in 1979. Wasn't until 1990 that LSU finally played at Florida State and that was agreed to only after Florida St agreed to play in BR in 1989 & 1991. Sep. 10 1983 L 35-40 Baton Rouge Nov. 20 1982 W 55-21 Baton Rouge Oct. 24 1981 L 14-38 Baton Rouge Sep. 6 1980 L 0-16 Baton Rouge Oct. 27 1979 L 19-24 Baton Rouge LSU played Texas A&M in Baton Rouge 16 straight years 1960 thru 1975. After A&M beat LSU the last two times in 1974 & 75 the Tigers agreed to do some home and away series. LSU vs. Oregon St. Overall Record Against Oregon St.: 4-0-0 Date Season W/L Score Location Notes Sep. 4 2004 W 22-21(OT) Baton Rouge Sep. 18 1982 W 45-7 Baton Rouge Sep. 19 1981 W 27-24 Baton Rouge Sep. 18 1976 W 28-11 Baton Rouge There are many more teams that LSU has played in BR and seldom if ever played on the road. I'm surprised LSU would agree to play a home/away series with Louisville? Edited November 11, 2006 by Rockerbraves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 (edited) I find it funny that the Big 10 keeps getting included in this "big 4" that everyone keeps referring to. This is a conference that has been relying solely on the reputations of TWO SCHOOLS, OSU and UM. Sure, Wisconsin is having a nice season this year and Penn St. had a surprisingly good season last years after years of mediocrity, but when was a team from the Big 10 other than OSU or UM truely relevant in the final standings? Keep beating up on Illinois and Indiana and patting yourselves on the back. The most uninformed statement I heard in awhile. To even suggest the Big 10 as not a top 4 conference shows your stupidity. The Pac 10 has USC and Cal The Big 10 has Mich and OSU The Big 12 has Texas and Okla This has been the case for all these conferences for the majority of time for several years. The ONLY conferece to boast more balance at the top is the SEC. So YES in fact these are the Big 4. Who else is there Edited November 11, 2006 by theeohiostate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Yeah Rutgers biggest non conference win was vs Illinois. Go figure. Admittedly this is a down year for the Big Ten with Iowa underachieving, Purdue basically down and out, and Penn State slumping offensively due to having a new QB, but Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Wisconsin would run away with the Big East crown this year. They all play whats called defense, you know, those 11 guys who keep other offenses out of the end zone. Hell your 4th best team Pittsburgh got smoked by Michigan State at home, who has a Big East style defense (ie None). Now, all that being said, I don't think the Big East is that bad. But there is no week to week grind like there is in those Big 4 conferences. Louisville is beating there chest about beating Miami. I don't know if anyone noticed, but this is the worst Miami team in almost a decade, Duke almost beat them for christs sake! Rutgers big non conference win, as I said before, was vs Illinois, the worst team in the Big Ten. And West Virginia is still trying to hang there hat on last years Sugar Bowl where they beat Georgia by THREE points and only outgained them by 1 yard. And to add to your comment, the Big East out of conference opponents this season are roughly 35-80. That alone is why they don't get any respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 (edited) The most uninformed statement I heard in awhile. To even suggest the Big 10 as not a top 4 conference shows your stupidity. The Pac 10 has USC and Cal The Big 10 has Mich and OSU The Big 12 has Texas and Okla This has been the case for all these conferences for the majority of time for several years. The ONLY conferece to boast more balance at the top is the SEC. So YES in fact these are the Big 4. Who else is there Agreed - to me the real strength of a conference is the strength in the mid to backend of the league. The SEC, PAC 10, BIG 10, to lesser extent the Big12 - you better bring it on the road or you will get beat at many houses. Granted every league will have their share of bad teams in a given year- but a league like the Big 10....- cmon- most years you are in for a fight vs. Purdue, PSU, Wisky, Iowa, and MSU and UM, NW are tough outS. The BE just is not there and to suggest that it is ridiculous. The PAC 10 this year- unusually strong 1-9, I mean, WSU, UW, OSU, UCLA, ASU, UA all are solid clubs. There is just not the weekly grind in the Big East- Edited November 11, 2006 by wildcat2334 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Jenkins Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Fine, then let's add these teams to the list: Georgia Tech Boston College Texas Tech Those are just a few of the non-SEC schools that have not only refused to schedule us, but BACKED out of existing deals. The Big Ten has not been immune to "missing phone calls", either, as our AD has mentioned Ohio State by name and most certainly Indiana as a pair of programs who aren't interested in drawing up a contract. If I'm not mistaken, Georgia Tech opened this year against a then #2 Notre Dame. I don't think they're ducking you because they fear a tough game... Boston College consistantly plays ND (though not this year) and is back on ND's schedule coming up. Sometimes it's just about the money - a nationally televised game against an ND or USC will get the nod by an AD over Rutgers or Louisville for a non-conference game. If I'm not mistaken, Rutgers did play ND recently (in the last couple of years) and all ND got was ridiculed for scheduling a patsy. These things happen years in advance for the most part. by the time you get the schedule you want, even if the wheels go in motion this year, Rutgers will be back to sucking ass and everyone will be bitching at the teams that are playing them for scheduling such a pushover... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushey Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 The system is flawed. It has been said numerous times. That being said, it should not be up to the schools as to who they play. Schedules should be made by an independant entity. That way all those "Strong" teams from big conferences would need to prove their mettle week to week and not play patty cake non conference schedules. An excellent example of this is certainly ND and USC. I have the utmost respect for these teams. That being said, a playoff system is needed. That way, big time teams can still schedule patty cake university and not drop in the rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 (edited) The system is flawed. It has been said numerous times. That being said, it should not be up to the schools as to who they play. Schedules should be made by an independant entity. That way all those "Strong" teams from big conferences would need to prove their mettle week to week and not play patty cake non conference schedules. An excellent example of this is certainly ND and USC. I have the utmost respect for these teams. That being said, a playoff system is needed. That way, big time teams can still schedule patty cake university and not drop in the rankings. After digging a little deeper into SOS rankings- pretty interesting. These obviously reflect the non-conference shced. as well as the conf. games- SOS Rank BE- UL - 24, WVU-55, RU- 69 Big 12- OU- 28 - rest of the league awful Big 10 - Min - 5, PSU - 6, UM- 26, OSU - 35 SEC- UT- 15, Fla- 16, MSU- 27, LSU- 29 PAC 10 - Stan -1, UW-2, Cal- 3, USC-4, WSU-7, UCLA-8, UA-9, OSU-11 OU has the LOWEST-17 this year I believe is a rarity, as most years I don't think the PAC 10 is as strong as the SEC, Big 10 from top to bottom.... this year?? I think it is. USC, CAL, OU can match up with any three from any conference- and the rest of the league is stronger without question. Sorry East Coasters- , UL, WVU, RU are finishing with 3-4 L in the Pac 10 - that is reality. Edited November 11, 2006 by wildcat2334 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushey Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Sometimes it's just about the money Bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalEmpire.com Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 If I'm not mistaken, Georgia Tech opened this year against a then #2 Notre Dame. I don't think they're ducking you because they fear a tough game... I never said that opponents FEARED the Big East upper-tier; I just stated the fact that they ARE avoiding playing the top teams, even if it means backing out of existing deals. Georgia Tech and Boston College most certainly did this. So did NC State and Texas Tech. Teams from the so-called "Big 4" continue (more times than not) to water down their schedules and then rely on the reputations of their leagues that as time wears on are made more by outdated opinions by geriatric talking heads than the results on the field. There are exclusions to this rule, yes, but there are also a lot of guilty teams playing Florida International, Louisiana-Monroe, and Ball State by CHOICE to both pad their home ticket sales (read: $$$$) and their poll votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 There are exclusions to this rule, yes, but there are also a lot of guilty teams playing Florida International, Louisiana-Monroe, and Ball State by CHOICE to both pad their home ticket sales (read: $$$$) and their poll votes. Making $$$$ while padding poll votes, what's wrong with that combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Exactly, which is why Rutgers does not deserve the NC game, and won't even sniff it. The Big East, while much improved, and a BCS conference, is not a strong conference. Previous to this game, I think the Big East had 2 wins vs. top 30, and 1 win vs. Top 10, which was UL over WVU, not good at all- until these JV schools start playing someone out of conference they will not be a top tier league- period. It takes time to beef the schedules up.When BC,Miami,and VT left,that removed three pretty good football teams (at the time) from the BE schedule.Schedules are made years in advance,and you can't just replace them with quality opponents overnight. An example is WVU.Being from a poor state,they do not have nearly as much money as an OSU for example.That's why you see them playing on Thursday nights so much.They HAVE to have home games,and can't afford to be a fill-in for a quality opponent without a return home game. Those wanting to kick the Big East out of the BCS are hilarious.If anything,the ACC deserves that honor right now.But that won't happen either.Then the have nots would out number the haves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 It takes time to beef the schedules up.When BC,Miami,and VT left,that removed three pretty good football teams (at the time) from the BE schedule.Schedules are made years in advance,and you can't just replace them with quality opponents overnight. An example is WVU.Being from a poor state,they do not have nearly as much money as an OSU for example.That's why you see them playing on Thursday nights so much.They HAVE to have home games,and can't afford to be a fill-in for a quality opponent without a return home game. Those wanting to kick the Big East out of the BCS are hilarious.If anything,the ACC deserves that honor right now.But that won't happen either.Then the have nots would out number the haves. The only reason why the Big East looks decent is because those 3 teams left the conference taking away parity in the top part of that conference. Imagine if Ohip State , Michigan and Penn State left the Big Ten. Many might be proclaiming Minnesota, Purdue and Wisconsin as the nations best based off of the near perfect record in a conference minus those 3 Big Ten teams. I said it before and I will say it again, when BC, Miami and Virginia Tech left the Big East that the Big East conference should be banned from the BCS until they can get a chance to rebuild their conference and make it more competitive on a national basis. Granted they are getting close but lets don't throw them a bone quite yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 The only reason why the Big East looks decent is because those 3 teams left the conference taking away parity in the top part of that conference. Imagine if Ohip State , Michigan and Penn State left the Big Ten. Many might be proclaiming Minnesota, Purdue and Wisconsin as the nations best based off of the near perfect record in a conference minus those 3 Big Ten teams. I said it before and I will say it again, when BC, Miami and Virginia Tech left the Big East that the Big East conference should be banned from the BCS until they can get a chance to rebuild their conference and make it more competitive on a national basis. Granted they are getting close but lets don't throw them a bone quite yet. Of course,that WVU and Louisville have vastly improved their programs is impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 (edited) Of course,that WVU and Louisville have vastly improved their programs is impossible. Not impossible just not likely. Rutgers is the only team left in the Big East that should even be mentioned when it comes to BCS bowls. If they do run the table the rest of the way they do deserve a shot at a BCS bowl considering the Big East is part of the BCS. But if that did happen then any one loss or two loss team from the Big East should not complain since they got their BCS representative (Rutgers) . Edited November 12, 2006 by Rockerbraves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalEmpire.com Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 If West Virginia and Louisville are not as good as their records suggest, then how do you explain: WVU running all over SEC CHAMPION Georgia last season in the Sugar Bowl? Big East runner-up Louisville, MINUS Brian Brohm, along with a hobbled Elvis Dumervil (which SHOULD HAVE booted Marcus VIck from the game) taking ACC CHAMPION (don't let the Florida State upset fool you) Virginia Tech to the absolute limit? Those results hardly suggest that the Big East teams are a result of their conference schedules. I doubt this year's bowl results will be any different from WVU, Louisville, or Rutgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWPFFL BrianW Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 (edited) If West Virginia and Louisville are not as good as their records suggest, then how do you explain: WVU running all over SEC CHAMPION Georgia last season in the Sugar Bowl? Big East runner-up Louisville, MINUS Brian Brohm, along with a hobbled Elvis Dumervil (which SHOULD HAVE booted Marcus VIck from the game) taking ACC CHAMPION (don't let the Florida State upset fool you) Virginia Tech to the absolute limit? Those results hardly suggest that the Big East teams are a result of their conference schedules. I doubt this year's bowl results will be any different from WVU, Louisville, or Rutgers. We'll see. Louisville, and Rutgers LOST those games last year. and WVU had the benefit of playing a team that wasn't taking them seriously at all. UGA gets down 28-0 and realizes, that they were playing a game. What happened after that? WVU survived by the skin of there a$$ and win 38-35, only outgaining Georgia by 1 yard, and GIVING UP OVER 500 yards. Looks like WVU was very fortunate that UGA spotted them 28. I think a better indication of the Big East strength post-Miami would be 2 years ago in the Fiesta Bowl, where they had the dubious honor of sending there CHAMPION, to get throttled by a mid-major Utah. Was Utah good? Yeah they were good, but Pittsburgh was the ONLY BCS team they woulda beat, and they wouldn't have beat most any other team playing on New Years day that year either (well probably not West Virginia, the Gator Bowl participant from the Big East). Edited November 12, 2006 by GWPFFL BrianW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalEmpire.com Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Are you kidding me? You'd rather use the results of a league that was WITHOUT its former trailblazers AND its current ones? Yeah, that seems like a fair way to judge a league... catch them in the ONE season where they had neither Miami, Virginia Tech, or Louisville and sent Pittsburgh as the best of a basically 5-team league. How do you suppose the Big Ten or Pac-10 would fair in the BCS bowls in any given season if we took away the top 3 teams and forced them to send their leftovers to face the nation's best? Would you put money on Purdue beating Boise State this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWPFFL BrianW Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 (edited) My point is... the mid-majors have won ONE BCS bowl... and it was vs a Big East team, and one of the better Big East teams at that. (yeah pitt is down now, but they sure had a lot of preseason hype last year). Add Louisville that year, you think the result is any different? Absolutely not. Regardless, it's no more crazy too look at that, as it is to look at Louisville losing to Virginia Tech in last years Gator Bowl. Theres no such thing as a quality loss (unless you're notre dame). And lets look at the season in question... Louisville beats tthere chest about beating the worst Miami team in almost a decade at home. WVU beats there chest about beating Georgia LAST SEASON, and Rutgers best out of conference win was vs ILLINOIS, the worst big ten team there is. They have the worst out of conference record as a conference, and yet, we're supposed to take them seriously? Why? Because the BCS includes them? The Big East is nothing but a glorified mid-major (which I think is better than the ACC at the very least this year). Everyone says that if the BCS is serious about itself, then a Big East Champion who goes undefeated should be in. I totally disagree with that. I don't doubt that teams have backed out of playing the Big East teams. While you can't help but play the schedule in front of you, you shouldn't be immune from the consequences of it's sh|ttyness either. I think Big East fans should just be happy that they have teams in the discussion of national championship possibilities. Edit to Add: The Big Ten consistantly sends lower tier teams to face teams from the upper tier from other conferences. The most notable examples are Purdue over Kansas State in 1998, and 8th place Wisconsin over Big 12 North Champion Colorado in 2002. So to answer your question, I'd give Purdue a pretty good chance of beating Boise State, and Purdue isn't even gonna go to a bowl. Actually that game would be pretty fun. Lots of offense. Edited November 12, 2006 by GWPFFL BrianW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 Being undefeated in simply a factor to consider in the BCS process, the polls, the computers still represent who plays. To think that if any D-I program goes undeated and will play in the NC game is very naive. Many programs like Boise St. and possibly this year's Rutgers go undefeated and still don't deserve a shot. Really do you want to see Rutgers-OSU or USC-OSU? so how do you feel about those computers ranking OSU #3 one spot after RU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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