Boonja Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Bit of a conflict in my league right now on the standings tiebreaker. There are two teams in the same division. 1 team with a record of 6-6 and the other team with a record of 5-5-2. Yes, this team actually tied twice this year. The first time it's ever happened. The team with the two ties has played the other team twice so far and has won both times. So the 5-5-2 team owns the 6-6 team. They have the same Winning Percentage and the first Standings Tiebreaker on the CBS Sportsline website is set to Winning Percentage. The second tiebreaker is set to Head-To-Head. The 6-6 team is the commissioner of the league and his argument is that wins are better than ties, so he is ahead of the 5-5-2 team. Is this right? Do two ties equal a win? Which team is in 1st? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalEmpire.com Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 (edited) Follow the rules... 5-5-2 guy is ahead right now. Is the season over, though? Assuming there is at least another week of games, you should be able to figure out a winning % champ with another week or more of games. Unless BOTH tie this weekend, then there will be a decided "winning percentage" leader after this weekend. Personally I think points (whether aggregate or average) scored should be the first tiebreaker... can't believe it's not the top 2 Edited November 29, 2006 by CardinalEmpire.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 The 6-6 team is the commissioner of the league and his argument is that wins are better than ties, so he is ahead of the 5-5-2 team. Is this right? Do two ties equal a win? Which team is in 1st? Sure, but ties are better than loses. I would say that if they've played the same number of games and winning percentage is the same, you go to head to head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 A tie is 1/2 win and 1/2 loss, so the 2 ties constitute a win and a loss. With that, the 6-6 team was the equvalent record of the 5-5-2 team and have the same winning percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFanMike Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 "Wins are better than ties"??? Yeah, but ties are better than losses. A tie counts (in most places, including the NFL) as half a win and half a loss. So one team has 6 wins and 6 losses, the other team has (5 + 1/2 + 1/2) wins and (5 + 1/2 + 1/2) losses, so he's also 6-6. You asked if 2 ties equals a win -- actually, two ties equals a win and a loss. Both have the same percentage, and they go to the head-to-head tiebreaker. If both do the same thing this week, the 5-5-2 team will win. CardinalEmpire seemed to think that unless there's a tie, the winning percentages will differ. That's not true -- if would be if you IGNORED ties, but they count as half of each. There was something on this board earlier this year about the same subject, and the answer was the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boonja Posted November 29, 2006 Author Share Posted November 29, 2006 No, we have one game left in our regular season so this may be a mute point. Unless both teams win next week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABearWithFurniture Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 The 5-5-2 team is ahead due to the 2nd tie-breaker of H2H...your rules specifically state that the first tie-breaker is winning percentage which is even. This is what happens when you have ties... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 No, we have one game left in our regular season so this may be a mute point. Unless both teams win next week! In which case the 6-2-2 team should be the winner over the 7-6 team....but as most sportsline leagues they usually go by points and not head to head.....so whoever has scored the most points would be the winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalEmpire.com Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 CardinalEmpire seemed to think that unless there's a tie, the winning percentages will differ. That's not true -- if would be if you IGNORED ties, but they count as half of each. There was something on this board earlier this year about the same subject, and the answer was the same. Man, I sure didn't believe that about the NFL calculating ties, but a quick Google search says that's exactly what happens. http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/standings.nsf/Seasons/1997 Philly was credited with 6.5 wins out of 16. I learned something new today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickvick Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Follow the rules... 5-5-2 guy is ahead right now. Is the season over, though? Assuming there is at least another week of games, you should be able to figure out a winning % champ with another week or more of games. Unless BOTH tie this weekend, then there will be a decided "winning percentage" leader after this weekend. Personally I think points (whether aggregate or average) scored should be the first tiebreaker... can't believe it's not the top 2 I agree with this.Points should be the ultimate tiebreaker.My league does this even though it is a head to head league.We all felt that points should account for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Pimp Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 No, we have one game left in our regular season so this may be a mute point. Unless both teams win next week! It's a moot point right now regardless of what happens this week. If they both win this week or both lose they will still finish with the same record as far as percentage goes. 5-5-2 wins in the H2H department so he is the #1 seed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 The 6-6 team is the commissioner of the league and his argument is that wins are better than ties, so he is ahead of the 5-5-2 team. Is this right? No--your commish is a splashy-splash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Bit of a conflict in my league right now on the standings tiebreaker. There are two teams in the same division. 1 team with a record of 6-6 and the other team with a record of 5-5-2. Yes, this team actually tied twice this year. The first time it's ever happened. The team with the two ties has played the other team twice so far and has won both times. So the 5-5-2 team owns the 6-6 team. They have the same Winning Percentage and the first Standings Tiebreaker on the CBS Sportsline website is set to Winning Percentage. The second tiebreaker is set to Head-To-Head. The 6-6 team is the commissioner of the league and his argument is that wins are better than ties, so he is ahead of the 5-5-2 team. Is this right? Do two ties equal a win? Which team is in 1st? 1. Ties are half wins, half losses ... so 6-6 is exactly the same as 5-2-2 2. Your rules are clear that 1st tie-breaker is winning percentage and winning percentage is the same. 3. Your rules are clear that H2H is the 2nd tie-breaker. This is so not up for intrepretation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoil Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 You have rules in place that are crystal clear. You follow them and if he's still sulky about it in the offseason, have a league wide discussion on tie-breakers. Now isn't the time for someone to get hissy about his 6-6 being somehow better than someone else's 5-5-2. Especially if 2 of his 6 loses came against said 5-5-2 club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo-J Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Yep - Head to Head. If everything else is equal and it's 1. overall winning % and 2. Head to Head, as created at the start of the season, then you have to go with that. I'm a commish and that may come to bite me in the end, pending results of the next two weeks, but I'm fully prepared to swallow that bitter pill if it means I don't make it. Anything else, changing the rules, i.e, is unethical. You could have the guys duke it out in the parking lot - last man standing goes to the playoffs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 1. Ties are half wins, half losses ... so 6-6 is exactly the same as 5-2-2 2. Your rules are clear that 1st tie-breaker is winning percentage and winning percentage is the same. 3. Your rules are clear that H2H is the 2nd tie-breaker. This is so not up for intrepretation Agreed. Wait to see how this coming week shakes out, but if both teams win or both teams lose again this week, then you need to make sure you call out the Commish on his erroneous position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 1. Ties are half wins, half losses ... so 6-6 is exactly the same as 5-2-2 2. Your rules are clear that 1st tie-breaker is winning percentage and winning percentage is the same. 3. Your rules are clear that H2H is the 2nd tie-breaker. This is so not up for intrepretation exactly. your commish is completely FOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 (edited) actually if there's one more game, and both teams win or both teams lose, this thing will indeed shake itself out and not even need to go to a tie-breaker. 5-6-2 = .455 winning percentage < 6-7-0 = .462 winning percentage 6-5-2 = .545 winning percentage > 7-6-0 = .539 winning percentage Edited November 29, 2006 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 actually if there's one more game, and both teams win or both teams lose, this thing will indeed shake itself out and not even need to go to a tie-breaker. 5-6-2 = .455 winning percentage < 6-7-0 = .462 winning percentage 6-5-2 = .545 winning percentage > 7-6-0 = .539 winning percentage Excellent point! That's the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 actually if there's one more game, and both teams win or both teams lose, this thing will indeed shake itself out and not even need to go to a tie-breaker. 5-6-2 = .455 winning percentage < 6-7-0 = .462 winning percentage 6-5-2 = .545 winning percentage > 7-6-0 = .539 winning percentage Since a tie is 1/2 win and 1/2 loss, the winning percentages would be the same for a 5-6-2 and a 6-7 team at .462; and for 6-5-2 and 7-6 at .539. Ties are not dismissed from the winning percentage formula as you did here. (5-6 is .455 and 6-5 is .545 ) That was the NFL rule prior to 1972, but is now a tie is 1/2 win and 1/2 loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Since a tie is 1/2 win and 1/2 loss, the winning percentages would be the same for a 5-6-2 and a 6-7 team at .462; and for 6-5-2 and 7-6 at .539. Ties are not dismissed from the winning percentage formula as you did here. (5-6 is .455 and 6-5 is .545 ) That was the NFL rule prior to 1972, but is now a tie is 1/2 win and 1/2 loss. well, it really depends how the league software handles it. just because the NFL decided a tie is half a win and half a loss doesnt mean that particular fantasy league does. that's really a pretty counter-intuitive result, a tie is not half a win and half a loss, it is a tie. you can see why the NFL changed it for their own tiebreakers, but that doesn't unilaterally change the definition of a tie once and for all. it probably SHOULD be considered a tie, sending it to the next tiebreaker...that seems most fair. but it may or may not be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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