billay Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 (edited) I must say, reading bushwacked's PAC 10 thread, the ACC is getting no love in the top 25 this year. Admittedly, the ACC took a tumble as far as outside perception in the last few years, but I don't think the league is getting any respect this year. I think it's great that people want to pay attention to some of these mid-major teams, but let's not get carried away. "The Experts" were in such desperation to find the next George Mason that Wichta St. sat in the top 25 until they dropped 4 in a row. Meanwhile, they were taking a spot away from a legitimate top 25 team. Don't get me wrong, I know the top 25 isn't the end-all-be-all, but it would be nice it were a little more representative of the best 25 in the country. Notable ACC teams not in the top 25 (but just as well could be) FSU(12-3): Probably the most worthy of the bunch. They have 3 losses, but all to top 25 teams: Wisconsin, Pitt, (both top 10 teams) and Clemson. They have a quality win over Florida. Compare them to LSU(10-3), ranked #14 in the country. No quality Wins, none Losses @ Washington, @wichita St, @ Texas. Those are some decent teams, but they are not great and they are still losses. Explain to me why LSU is #14 in the country? Maryland is also worthy of consideration. They are 14-2. No wins that jump out at you, but they did beat Mich St. Their losses are to ND and @BC. Hard to argue a difference here between #14 in the country and unranked. Georgia Tech(11-3): Wins:@ Memphis, Georgia Losses: Vandy, @Miami, UCLA. Still, better quality wins than LSU. UVA (9-3): The most schitzophrenic of the bunch. They have bad losses with App. State, @Utah, @ purdue, but they have good wins over Arizona and Gonzaga. Other teams perhaps not worthy of top 25 status: Memphis(10-3): Wins: Kentucky, Oklahoma Losses: @ Washington, @ Tenn, @ Ariz. This certainly is no better than what FSU has to offer. Lastly:Washington. I realize that they will probably drop out of the top 25 this week, so it may be irrelevant, but they had 3 losses before losing to Arizona. Wins: Beat LSU (in light of this analysis however, what is that worth?) Losses: Gonzaga, USC, UCLA and now Ariz. Even Clemson, who is undefeated and with a quality win over FSU, has just cracked the top 25 @ #23. Anyone have any insight? FWIW, Gary Parrish of CBSSportsline does have Maryland @ 18, Clemson @ 24 and FSU @ 25. Edited January 5, 2007 by billay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Yeah, I think the difference from, say 15-35, is slim. I think it just stems from teams getting pre-season pub being higher than they should be while teams that started under the radar are now winning. The top 25 will be much clearer in the next 1-2 weeks after league play is under way. There are definitely teams that are overrated, starting with the Dukies, Wash, LSU to name a few I must say it is kind of funny to hear an ACC guy complaining about getting no love in the top 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Compare them to LSU(10-3), ranked #14 in the country. No quality Wins, none Losses @ Washington, @wichita St, @ Texas. Those are some decent teams, but they are not great and they are still losses. Explain to me why LSU is #14 in the country? Anyone have any insight? FWIW, Gary Parrish of CBSSportsline does have Maryland @ 18, Clemson @ 24 and FSU @ 25. No. 14 Men's Basketball Falls At LSU, 66-49 BATON ROUGE, La. (January 6, 2007) - All-American Glen Davis scored 16 points and added eight rebounds to lead Louisiana State University to a 66-49 men’s basketball win over the University of Connecticut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted January 7, 2007 Author Share Posted January 7, 2007 No. 14 Men's Basketball Falls At LSU, 66-49 BATON ROUGE, La. (January 6, 2007) - All-American Glen Davis scored 16 points and added eight rebounds to lead Louisiana State University to a 66-49 men’s basketball win over the University of Connecticut. I'm not all that impressed by UCONN either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I'm not all that impressed by UCONN either. LSU has a way of making teams look unimpressive...How about A&M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 (edited) Notable ACC teams not in the top 25 (but just as well could be) FSU(12-3): Probably the most worthy of the bunch. They have 3 losses, but all to top 25 teams: Wisconsin, Pitt, (both top 10 teams) and Clemson. They have a quality win over Florida. Just playin' good ole devil's advocate here, but while I agree with you that FSU's losses are to solid teams, and their win against Florida is huge... who are their other 11 wins against? I typed this query before looking up their schedule/scores... McNeese State, Illinois State, SMU, New Orleans, Stetson, Georgia St., SE Louisiana, High Point , Coastal Carolina, St. Peters and Providence. Hmm, there's your answer. Edited to add graemlin. Edited January 7, 2007 by darin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted January 7, 2007 Author Share Posted January 7, 2007 Just playin' good ole devil's advocate here, but while I agree with you that FSU's losses are to solid teams, and their win against Florida is huge... who are their other 11 wins against? I typed this query before looking up their schedule/scores... McNeese State, Illinois State, SMU, New Orleans, Stetson, Georgia St., SE Louisiana, High Point , Coastal Carolina, St. Peters and Providence. Hmm, there's your answer. Edited to add graemlin. OK, I'm game. What about these wins? Northern Ariz., Towson, Tennessee St., Ball St., Dartmouth, Southern Cal, Toledo, Win-Sal, Boston College, Detroit, Rhode Island This team also beat FLA, but had losses to Oral Roberts and Depaul Meet #9 Kansas Or these guys.... Prairie View, Lamar, Louisiana Tech, St. Louis, Idaho St., AR-Little Rock, Pacific, Fordham, Jacksonville, Auburn, Grambling, Winthrop, Kansas St. A win over Kansas St vs. a win over Florida, you decide. Say hello to #11 Texas A&M I've already pointed out that LSU (win over UCONN not withstanding) and Washington didn't seem to have much business being ranked where they are. It's all a function of where you are ranked preseason. If FSU had started the season ranked #5, they'd still be in the top 25. When you lose also has a lot to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 OK, I'm game. What about these wins? This team also beat FLA, but had losses to Oral Roberts and Depaul Meet #9 Kansas Or these guys.... A win over Kansas St vs. a win over Florida, you decide. Say hello to #11 Texas A&M I've already pointed out that LSU (win over UCONN not withstanding) and Washington didn't seem to have much business being ranked where they are. It's all a function of where you are ranked preseason. If FSU had started the season ranked #5, they'd still be in the top 25. When you lose also has a lot to do with it. I'm not saying those teams deserve those rankings. But to say FSU is getting slighted is a bit much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I'm not saying those teams deserve those rankings. But to say FSU is getting slighted is a bit much. Does anybody have any better way other than to use preseason rankings. These rankings don't mean squat anyway since their is a playoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Does anybody have any better way other than to use preseason rankings. These rankings don't mean squat anyway since their is a playoff. I've read all sorts of articles on this subject. It's very true, it's hard to rank teams in the early-going. And you're right, the rankings really mean very little. Of course, it's nice to be a "ranked" team late in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I've read all sorts of articles on this subject. It's very true, it's hard to rank teams in the early-going. And you're right, the rankings really mean very little. Of course, it's nice to be a "ranked" team late in the season. Guess preseason and early national rankings are one of the rewards of consistently doing well in the March madness. Little doubt getting ranked is a building process. We've seen it all the time when teams like Kentucky, North Carolina, Louisiville, Indiana, Duke etc have had a string of great teams and thus get ranked high even though they may not be as good as some of the new and upcoming programs like a FSU type program. IMO until the newer teams prove it over a long period of time then they have nothing to complain about when it comes to rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Guess preseason and early national rankings are one of the rewards of consistently doing well in the March madness. Little doubt getting ranked is a building process. We've seen it all the time when teams like Kentucky, North Carolina, Louisiville, Indiana, Duke etc have had a string of great teams and thus get ranked high even though they may not be as good as some of the new and upcoming programs like a FSU type program. IMO until the newer teams prove it over a long period of time then they have nothing to complain about when it comes to rankings. Duke is not good this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Duke is not good this year. Not sure how you know that, but if true Duke will certainly fall out of the rankings once conference play is in full swing much like Kentucky last year. By the way, didn't Kentucky get left out of March Madness last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Not sure how you know that, but if true Duke will certainly fall out of the rankings once conference play is in full swing much like Kentucky last year. By the way, didn't Kentucky get left out of March Madness last year? They just don't have the athletes - especially along the perimeter - as they've had in years past. Therefore, they can't apply the normal "Coach K-type pressure", defensively. The announcers noted that in the VT/Duke game a few days ago and it's completely right-on. Not sure about the Cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 Looking forward to the Ohio St. / Wisconsin matchup tonight. This will be Ohio St's 3rd matchup with a top 3 opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driveby Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Looking forward to the Ohio St. / Wisconsin matchup tonight. Me too. Going to be a tough 24 hours for THE Ohio State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 Wisconsin looks very strong. They play together. OSU is still trying to learn to play with the big boy in the middle. I was thoroughly unimpressed with their play in the second half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Wisconsin looks very strong. They play together. OSU is still trying to learn to play with the big boy in the middle. I was thoroughly unimpressed with their play in the second half. I agree- Wisky looked good, they play team ball and they defend. OSU has a ways to go- it was all one on one and bad shot selection. They don't get Oden the ball in the right spots, and even when he did post up deep, he was not making strong moves. Disjointed team that takes poor shots. Starting to think Oden isn't going to end having that much of an impact bc he is a freshman, and the way that team plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I agree- Wisky looked good, they play team ball and they defend. OSU has a ways to go- it was all one on one and bad shot selection. They don't get Oden the ball in the right spots, and even when he did post up deep, he was not making strong moves. Disjointed team that takes poor shots. Starting to think Oden isn't going to end having that much of an impact bc he is a freshman, and the way that team plays. It's almost like the "other" OSU players know Oden is only a one-year fix and they are struggling to get any kind of rapport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Duke is not good this year. How sweet it is - I love seeing Duke struggle. It looks like Paulus could be a complete bust. I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the bench next year, and coach K getting a frosh stud that can actually play. He looks overmatched on a nightly basis and doesn't apper to have the athleticism, skills to be a top notch PG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprofessor Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I must say, reading bushwacked's PAC 10 thread, the ACC is getting no love in the top 25 this year. Admittedly, the ACC took a tumble as far as outside perception in the last few years, but I don't think the league is getting any respect this year. I think it's great that people want to pay attention to some of these mid-major teams, but let's not get carried away. "The Experts" were in such desperation to find the next George Mason that Wichta St. sat in the top 25 until they dropped 4 in a row. Meanwhile, they were taking a spot away from a legitimate top 25 team. Don't get me wrong, I know the top 25 isn't the end-all-be-all, but it would be nice it were a little more representative of the best 25 in the country. Notable ACC teams not in the top 25 (but just as well could be) FSU(12-3): Probably the most worthy of the bunch. They have 3 losses, but all to top 25 teams: Wisconsin, Pitt, (both top 10 teams) and Clemson. They have a quality win over Florida. Compare them to LSU(10-3), ranked #14 in the country. No quality Wins, none Losses @ Washington, @wichita St, @ Texas. Those are some decent teams, but they are not great and they are still losses. Explain to me why LSU is #14 in the country? Maryland is also worthy of consideration. They are 14-2. No wins that jump out at you, but they did beat Mich St. Their losses are to ND and @BC. Hard to argue a difference here between #14 in the country and unranked. Georgia Tech(11-3): Wins:@ Memphis, Georgia Losses: Vandy, @Miami, UCLA. Still, better quality wins than LSU. UVA (9-3): The most schitzophrenic of the bunch. They have bad losses with App. State, @Utah, @ purdue, but they have good wins over Arizona and Gonzaga. Other teams perhaps not worthy of top 25 status: Memphis(10-3): Wins: Kentucky, Oklahoma Losses: @ Washington, @ Tenn, @ Ariz. This certainly is no better than what FSU has to offer. Lastly:Washington. I realize that they will probably drop out of the top 25 this week, so it may be irrelevant, but they had 3 losses before losing to Arizona. Wins: Beat LSU (in light of this analysis however, what is that worth?) Losses: Gonzaga, USC, UCLA and now Ariz. Even Clemson, who is undefeated and with a quality win over FSU, has just cracked the top 25 @ #23. Anyone have any insight? FWIW, Gary Parrish of CBSSportsline does have Maryland @ 18, Clemson @ 24 and FSU @ 25. The Huskies will be back in the Top 25. They are very young and learning to play together. 13-4 record is not too bad with all their youth. Lorenzo needs to get them back playing "Dawg" Defense again and they will be back knocking off the best in the country. I was at the game against Arizona and have NEVER seen Arizona play or shoot better than they did that night. We still had a shot to win it. How about the season the Pac-10 is having. Talk about depth! All the experts are saying that the Pac-10 is the strongest conference ..... by far!! I wouldn't be surprised if 7 teams get invited to the Big Dance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 How about the season the Pac-10 is having. Talk about depth! All the experts are saying that the Pac-10 is the strongest conference ..... by far!! I wouldn't be surprised if 7 teams get invited to the Big Dance I wouldn't be surprised if two SEC teams make it to the final four again. Heck might even be LSU & Florida again, who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I wouldn't be surprised if two SEC teams make it to the final four again. Heck might even be LSU & Florida again, who knows? Naw, you better put the SEC kool aid down and hang your southern- fried hat on the Gators. They are, and will be the team to beat, I don't care who is ranked #1. FLa is favored over anyone - If they do somehow repeat- good lord, that would be some tri-fecta. And the greatest feat by any school in football/basketball and on par with Wooden's sh1t. LSU - ain't very good, Bama can be if they figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted January 12, 2007 Author Share Posted January 12, 2007 If they do somehow repeat- good lord, that would be some tri-fecta. And the greatest feat by any school in football/basketball and on par with Wooden's sh1t. 2 vs 10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Naw, you better put the SEC kool aid down and hang your southern- fried hat on the Gators. They are, and will be the team to beat, I don't care who is ranked #1. FLa is favored over anyone - If they do somehow repeat- good lord, that would be some tri-fecta. And the greatest feat by any school in football/basketball and on par with Wooden's sh1t. LSU - ain't very good, Bama can be if they figure it out. Gotta agree that feat would even rival LSU's baseball sh1t up in Omaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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