Vick Indicted

[Menudo]

Now comes the real stuff. Finally.

 

[broncosn05]

Who? Me or Vick?

Just thought you might find that hilarious.

[broncosn05]

You know I was thinking what this thread was missing.

 

So what are your thoughts so far?

 

edit- to make sure people no how I feel about you.

Edited July 18, 2007 by broncosn05

[budlitebrad]

He probably won't be convicted, so unless he admits guilt I doubt he'll get suspended as a first time offender. Either way, it's gonna be a sh!tstorm from a media standpoint for Vick and the team.

[broncosn05]

Official ATL Falcons Statement

 

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/News/Article...indictment.aspx

[Menudo]

Schaub was notorious for not being Michael Vick. I'd rather have Harrington than Schaub. Too early to say.

Eh there's definetely some holes, IMO. I'm just looking at it and asking some serious questions and bringing up some questionable facts. Vick's defense is that he had no idea what the hell was happening. And all the things that "place" him there are pretty questionable.

 

Seriously, what is it going to take for you to stop defending this piece of garbage ?

[Beaumont]

I don't know, but ESPN has reported that the conspiracy charge carries a max of 5 years plus 1 if he's found guilty in the fighting itself. I don't know if that's old law or new...the wikipedia article seemed to say that the new law was 3 years max for each individual count.

 

Old law. 5 years on the gambling/conspiracy charge. One on the fighting/conspiracy charge.

[broncosn05]

Seriously, what is it going to take for you to stop defending this piece of garbage ?

Defending him? Where have I defended him wrongly in this entire thread?

 

Scratch that I'm not even defending him. I'm just criticizing the indictment and its contents.

Edited July 18, 2007 by broncosn05

[Menudo]

I've been a long time Vick defender regarding his play at QB. Never thought his play was anywhere near as bad as some liked to make out.

 

On his personal less than stellar life, I excused the Ron Mexico thing as that broad being a gold digger.

 

The finger was excused as poor self control. Those fans were three sheets to the wind & were heckling the wrong guy anyway. Personally I would've pulled a Jose Canseco on 'em, but I'm not a star athlete & role model whereas Vick is.

 

The infamous Water Bottle episode? Nothing there after testing.

 

But this?

 

Nope. Can't excuse this.

 

I hope Goodell is proactive about this & goes ahead & gives him at least 4 games warming the bench right now...with the understanding that the suspension will be extended to a minimum year ban, if not life time, if convicted of any dog fighting related charges.

 

Man, I hope Joey H earns the nickname "Renaissance Man" this year.

 

[Def.]

Honestly I don't think some people are going to be convinced by anything but a confession.

 

Theres such questionable areas for both sides of the arguement, but based off of information so far it is hard not to believe he was in some way involved. The thing that convinces me most is not seized findings, or the indictment, or other things like nobody at the residence held a job. Its Vick himself. He has shown that he does not care about living things, his team, or the NFL as a whole. Vick cares about Vick. Now is that wrong, no. But when you're getting sued for STD transmission, question over water bottles, and flicking off your own fans you start to see a pattern. He is either bringing in this bad element because he wants to or because he is the most idiotic person alive. I don't believe Vick is an idiot. He is bringing the Falcons name and reputation to the brink of Cincy Bengals fame single-handedly.

 

I'm done with people like Vick. I personally think him, Henry, Pacman, Tank, Thurman, Kircus, and others that I know I'm forgetting do nothing more then continue to tarnish the NFL. These people are overshadow the good the NFL does, both in entertainment and contributions to the community. Barely anyone is gonna talk about things like LT's Food drive or Mannings' work for NO. Hell why even talk about the stats from the games when we get to hear about Vick and his numerous screw ups.

 

Take all these POS and get them out of my league. You want to watch them? Go watch them in CFL or when they're playing on the Mean Machine. I'm sure they'll be very happy playing with Carruth and the coach O.J. Its sad knowing that the MLB despite all its discovery of cheating and steriod use has a better rep then the NFL right now.

[broncosn05]

Honestly I don't think some people are going to be convinced by anything but a confession.

 

Theres such questionable areas for both sides of the arguement, but based off of information so far it is hard not to believe he was in some way involved. The thing that convinces me most is not seized findings, or the indictment, or other things like nobody at the residence held a job. Its Vick himself. He has shown that he does not care about living things, his team, or the NFL as a whole. Vick cares about Vick. Now is that wrong, no. But when you're getting sued for STD transmission, question over water bottles, and flicking off your own fans you start to see a pattern. He is either bringing in this bad element because he wants to or because he is the most idiotic person alive. I don't believe Vick is an idiot. He is bringing the Falcons name and reputation to the brink of Cincy Bengals fame single-handedly.

 

I'm done with people like Vick. I personally think him, Henry, Pacman, Tank, Thurman, Kircus, and others that I know I'm forgetting do nothing more then continue to tarnish the NFL. These people are overshadow the good the NFL does, both in entertainment and contributions to the community. Barely anyone is gonna talk about things like LT's Food drive or Mannings' work for NO. Hell why even talk about the stats from the games when we get to hear about Vick and his numerous screw ups.

 

Take all these POS and get them out of my league. You want to watch them? Go watch them in CFL or when they're playing on the Mean Machine. I'm sure they'll be very happy playing with Carruth and the coach O.J. Its sad knowing that the MLB despite all its discovery of cheating and steriod use has a better rep then the NFL right now.

Oh ok so supposedly giving a girl herpes, a water bottle question that turned up BS, and the flipping off of people yelling at you is a free ticket to dog fighting.

 

People love when other people fail and the media feeds it. Something as stupid as Paris Hilton is a great example. Schadenfreude. I agree that there are players all over the league who volunteer in the communities and aren't recognized when they should.

 

If I want to watch him I'll watch him in my NFL.

[tosberg34]

Y'know Broncosn05, I've read this ENTIRE post and one thing is clear to me: You refuse to believe your beloved Vick is guilty of anything, even in the face of a FEDERAL INDICTMENT! What's it going to take to get you from being a Vick nut sucker? For someone who obviously knows nothing of law except what you watch on COPS, you seem pretty confident in yourself when you claim to poke holes in said indictment. You actually sound like someone who can't believe that his beloved idol is really a no good thug and so you're trying to grasp on to anything that will allow you to continue your fantasy. I'm sorry your world has come crashing down but now it's time to pick up the pieces and move on to a new idol. You and BigScore should get together to talk about your pain.

 

Anyone else still want to be a part of the Michael Vick Experience?

Edited July 18, 2007 by tosberg34

[nhoops]

This is pretty unbelievable, especially someone who's supposed to be the face of the franchise.

 

Could you see Manning, Brady, McNabb, Favre (pain killers aside) to name a few ever being involved in something like this?

 

Never drafted him......probably never will . And we thought Marcus was the bad seed.

 

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I feel bad for those that have him as a keeper.......

 

(BTW like the new format! )

Edited July 18, 2007 by nhoops

[Grits and Shins]

I think Blank should extend his contract and pay him another 10M ... I think NEXT year will finally be the year Vick "gets it"

[budlitebrad]

The possibilities for the next Bang cartoon are endless.

[TheShiznit]

Again thanks for the explantion.

 

Now it looks like you know law pretty well. With that in mind, how much is the indictment report reflective in the total information that the prosecutor usually has. Is it more of a brief summary or is it all the evidence they had?

 

A prosecutor will generall attempt to gain an indictment on the least amount of evidence as possible....that way they have a real strong case when it comes to the plea bargain game. That being said, Grand Jury testimony is sealed and secretive simply because damn near anything is admissable...even stuff a trial judge may throw out. And there is still one wrinkle that is interesting. Vick had to be offered the opportunity to go in front of the Grand Jury and state his case....however....if he would have done that he would have been open to the prosecutor being able to question him with much looser rules regarding objections from defense counsel. The fact he chose not to go isn't necessarily a guilt proving act....but it means his attorney felt it wasn't in his best interest. So you have that scenario as well.

 

BTW, I am in no way an attorney.....I was pre-law and have a hankoring for following cases.

[broncosn05]

Y'know Broncosn05, I've read this ENTIRE post and one thing is clear to me: You refuse to believe your beloved Vick is guilty of anything, even in the face of a FEDERAL INDICTMENT! What's it going to take to get you from being a Vick nut sucker? For someone who obviously knows nothing of law except what you watch on COPS, you seem pretty confident in yourself when you claim to poke holes in said indictment. You actually sound like someone who can't believe that his beloved idol is really a no good thug and so you're trying to grasp on to anything that will allow you to continue your fantasy. I'm sorry your world has come crashing down but now it's time to pick up the pieces and move on to a new idol. You and BigScore should get together to talk about your pain.

 

Anyone else still want to be a part of the Michael Vick Experience?

I remember you. Yes right now Vick hasn't been found guilty of anything. In my quick read through the indictment I said they had big witnesses and read everything he is being charged for. Yes I know practically nothing about the law and how this stuff works. And I've asked numerous questions here and googled it up to gain a better comprehension. The observations that I came up with are fairly simple to see. I wasn't yelling Vick's innocent! Vick's innocent! Vick's innocent! All of them are pretty commonsensicle(?) and I was simply asking about them(late 2003). I also brought up points that the prosecution had going for it, the 2002 info being the biggest. They've obviously done a great deal of work, but they better have much more on linking Vick to it.

 

He's not my ******* idol ok. Or my ******** role model. He's a player that I absolutely love to watch and am being criticized extensively for giving the damn guy due process.

[broncosn05]

A prosecutor will generall attempt to gain an indictment on the least amount of evidence as possible....that way they have a real strong case when it comes to the plea bargain game. That being said, Grand Jury testimony is sealed and secretive simply because damn near anything is admissable...even stuff a trial judge may throw out. And there is still one wrinkle that is interesting. Vick had to be offered the opportunity to go in front of the Grand Jury and state his case....however....if he would have done that he would have been open to the prosecutor being able to question him with much looser rules regarding objections from defense counsel. The fact he chose not to go isn't necessarily a guilt proving act....but it means his attorney felt it wasn't in his best interest. So you have that scenario as well.

 

BTW, I am in no way an attorney.....I was pre-law and have a hankoring for following cases.

Well right now that's the best we've got. Thanks again.

[Bill Swerski]

I think he's looked terrible and think he's going to be a disaster in Houston, but that's not entirely his fault.

 

He looked pretty freaking good against the Patriots two years ago. Outside of that, he hasn't played enough to make that judgement. On the other hand, Harrington's proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that he sucks.

 

My blind defense? Quit stooping to the stupid comment Swerski.

 

The only stupid comments in this thread are your laughable attempts at Ron Mexico damage control. All of the excuses in the world aren't going to change the fact that he's facilitated and/or participated in animal cruelty on a massive scale. Jesus, over 50 dogs were slaughtered on HIS property! And he's been caught LYING about never being in the area... by a store owner from whom Vick purchased nutritional supplies for DOGS. What more evidence do you want? A professionally-shot video of Vick betting money at a dog-fighting match? An autographed photo of Vick drowning a losing pit bull?

Edited July 18, 2007 by Bill Swerski

[broncosn05]

He looked pretty freaking good against the Patriots two years ago. Outside of that, he hasn't played enough to make that judgement. On the other hand, Harrington's proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that he sucks.

So you're weighing your opinion on one game? We should've won that one btw. I just don't see how people are saying he's got such a strong arm and is able to read defenses so well when he's been in such limited action and when he's played the other teams first response has been "Who?" Teams will have game tape on him now and will be gearing up for him instead of the completly unique Michael Vick. Harrington is a bum. But in the 2-3 games (I remember GB and DET)I watched him play last year he had some pretty nice throws. And with Petrino there I think Harrington has the chance to make strides and has the experience of starting in the NFL, which isn't too bad of a thing for a backup QB.

The only stupid comments in this thread are your laughable attempts at Ron Mexico damage control. All of the excuses in the world aren't going to change the fact that he's facilitated and/or participated in animal cruelty on a massive scale. Jesus, over 50 dogs were slaughtered on HIS property! And he's been caught LYING about never being in the area... by a store owner from whom Vick purchased dog food. Why would you even WANT to defend somebody like that?

I really don't see how I'm defending him. I just brought up parts in the indictment that were certainly questionable. Am I wrong?

[broncosn05]

And he's been caught LYING about never being in the area... by a store owner from whom Vick purchased nutritional supplies for DOGS. What more evidence do you want? A professionally-shot video of Vick betting money at a dog-fighting match? An autographed photo of Vick drowning a losing pit bull?

Can I get the link for the store owner thing?

 

That'd be evidence wouldn't it.

[Bill Swerski]

So you're weighing your opinion on one game? We should've won that one btw. I just don't see how people are saying he's got such a strong arm and is able to read defenses so well when he's been in such limited action

 

Nobody said that Schaub is a bad-ass. He has upside and has played well in limited action. Harrington has played like crap in PLENTY of action on two different teams. What don't you understand about the difference between an unknown and a proven bust?

 

and when he's played the other teams first response has been "Who?" Teams will have game tape on him now and will be gearing up for him instead of the completly unique Michael Vick.

 

So Schaub only did well because opposing teams didn't have enough game tape of him?

 

I really don't see how I'm defending him. I just brought up parts in the indictment that were certainly questionable. Am I wrong?

 

You're spending your time in this thread looking for inconsistencies in the indictment, and conveniently overlooking the absolutely massive amount of damning evidence against Vick. You sound like a freaking defense attorney, for crying out loud.

 

You're a fan living in denial. I'm sorry that you look at situations for what you want them to be, rather than what they really are. Geez, even Big Score has kicked Ron Mexico to the curb.

 

Can I get the link for the store owner thing?

 

That'd be evidence wouldn't it.

 

I posed it about a week ago. It's in the Wikipedia.

[Def.]

Oh ok so supposedly giving a girl herpes, a water bottle question that turned up BS, and the flipping off of people yelling at you is a free ticket to dog fighting.

 

No, its a further display of poor character. AKA being a POS.

 

And just out of curiousity the water bottle BS? What is he carrying around a bottle with a hidden compartment because its cool?

 

People love when other people fail and the media feeds it. Something as stupid as Paris Hilton is a great example. Schadenfreude. I agree that there are players all over the league who volunteer in the communities and aren't recognized when they should.

 

Exactly, this guy doesn't deserve coverage just like her. He should have his privilidge to play in the NFL taken away.

 

If I want to watch him I'll watch him in my NFL.

 

If you want to propagate this type of behavior from NFL athletes go ahead. If this continues the way it has I will tune it out like the NBA, and I'm sure many will follow. Personally I'd rather watch Hockey then the NBA.

 

Please understand this is not a personal attack. You want to wait for all the evidence that is your choice. My point is that Vick and those consistently in trouble like him are not worth the trouble and embarassment they cause to the league. Saying he hasn't been convicted of anything is no different then saying Pacman hasn't been convicted of anything. Doesn't change the fact that there "coincedental problems" continue to damage what was a great product.

 

E2A: Some of the great public image this is creating for the NFL. Found this on Rumormill.

Edited July 18, 2007 by Def.

[broncosn05]

No, its a further display of poor character. AKA being a POS.

And just out of curiousity the water bottle BS? What is he carrying around a bottle with a hidden compartment because its cool?

 

Exactly, this guy doesn't deserve coverage just like her. He should have his privilidge to play in the NFL taken away.

If you want to propagate this type of behavior from NFL athletes go ahead. If this continues the way it has I will tune it out like the NBA, and I'm sure many will follow. Personally I'd rather watch Hockey then the NBA.

 

Please understand this is not a personal attack. You want to wait for all the evidence that is your choice. My point is that Vick and those consistently in trouble like him are not worth the trouble and embarassment they cause to the league. Saying he hasn't been convicted of anything is no different then saying Pacman hasn't been convicted of anything. Doesn't change the fact that there "coincedental problems" continue to damage what was a great product.

Who knows? That was a frikin disaster.

 

Yeah but he'll get it. Vick's rep is tarnished beyond belief. Guy is either a damn fool or just ignorant and irresponsible. But getting indicted is not grounds for suspension. Everyone should just chill and let this play out like it's going to because in reality all of this crap that we're doing doesn't even matter.

 

Once this investigation began Vick's rep was shot and the NFL took a supposed hit too. It almost doesn't matter if Vick is found innocent because, obviously, in your minds this guy is soulless thug that should be banned in the projects so we don't have to deal with such animals. And yes I, singular, will be waiting for all the evidence.

[broncosn05]

E2A: Some of the great public image this is creating for the NFL. Found this on Rumormill.

This was already posted. I found it hilarious as did some other huddlers.