Vick Indicted

[The Wolf]

Yeah, this is huge. This is a PR nightmare now for the league and the Falcons, and the quicker they can whisk him away the better.

 

Think Bobby Petrino is wishing he were back in Louisville?

[Azazello1313]

A prosecutor will generall attempt to gain an indictment on the least amount of evidence as possible....that way they have a real strong case when it comes to the plea bargain game. That being said, Grand Jury testimony is sealed and secretive simply because damn near anything is admissable...even stuff a trial judge may throw out. And there is still one wrinkle that is interesting. Vick had to be offered the opportunity to go in front of the Grand Jury and state his case....however....if he would have done that he would have been open to the prosecutor being able to question him with much looser rules regarding objections from defense counsel. The fact he chose not to go isn't necessarily a guilt proving act....but it means his attorney felt it wasn't in his best interest. So you have that scenario as well.

 

BTW, I am in no way an attorney.....I was pre-law and have a hankoring for following cases.

 

this is bad info. there is no requirement that an investigation target be offered an opportunity to testify. they can be subpoenaed like everyone else, but in general they are not called, and if they are any decent defense lawyer will have them assert their 5th amendment privilege, whether they are guilty or not.

[Pope Flick]

It makes me wonder what Petrino is thinking now since he left his position of great success in college in order to inherit what will continue to be the biggest headache in the league. And I do feel badly for the Falcon fans and players because this will be the focus of the media until it is completely resolved. It is a sad day for all Falcons and I hope it comes to some conclusion quickly. Godell is going to drop the hammer on this one, he has to after what he already did to other players who were not indicted by the feds.

 

I think Petrino has basically hit the jackpot: if there was any wondering whether or not his new system would be accepted and run by Michael Vick it effectively is gone. And with that the team is no longer Vick's from his tenure with the team and his "most exciting player in the league" mantra it is now squarely the Petrino who Blank will listen to and consider first. You have to believe Vick will be completely out of the picture before too long.

 

In short, if there was any internal political struggle between who ultimately had the owner's ear between Petrino and Vick, Petrino just won by default.

Edited July 18, 2007 by Pope Flick

[TheShiznit]

Not sure what you are saying here in the bolded part above....but the Feds are under no obligation to let Vick come in and testify in front of the Grand Jury. They don't even have to let him know what's going on.

 

You are correct on the part that just about anything is admissible though, as there won't be anyone in the room do defend the '"other side". Pretty much all the testimony will be what the prosecutors want the Jury to hear, there's no "defense" or rebuttal whatsoever in front of a Grand Jury. They hear what the prosecutors want them to hear and then are asked to come back with an indictment or no indictment.

 

I'm not a lawyer either, but I did serve on a Federal Grand Jury for a year, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn while doing so.

 

If a person is under indictment....they have an opportunity to be at the Grand Jury....in most cases they decline because the looser rules allow the prosecutors to ask questions and demand answers that otherwise wouldn't be done at trial. Of course I am not 100%...but I remember reading this somewhere.

 

Anyway...Federal Grand Jury service would be cool....how was it?

[TheShiznit]

this is bad info. there is no requirement that an investigation target be offered an opportunity to testify. they can be subpoenaed like everyone else, but in general they are not called, and if they are any decent defense lawyer will have them assert their 5th amendment privilege, whether they are guilty or not.

 

Wow...imagine that....now if you could just provide a link to that Perry Mason and maybe we could concur. You could have simply disagreed....but if you would like to be an ass...it is easy cause it seems you are all ass.

[BillyBalata]

If a person is under indictment....they have an opportunity to be at the Grand Jury....in most cases they decline because the looser rules allow the prosecutors to ask questions and demand answers that otherwise wouldn't be done at trial. Of course I am not 100%...but I remember reading this somewhere.

 

Anyway...Federal Grand Jury service would be cool....how was it?

 

 

A person isn't technically under indictment until the Grand Jury actually hands down that indictment. Like Az said above, they can be subpoenaed to testify, but the prosecutors won't generally do that. I can tell you in a year of doing it, we never once saw the person they were attempting to charge with a crime. We saw plenty of other criminals, but they were all called testify against someone else.

 

 

I guess my opinion of being on a Federal Grand Jury, it was pretty cool...for the first 6-8 months. After that it seemed like the same old stuff. We dealt with all kinds of cases, you name it. Tons of drug cases. Mail Fraud, Tax Evasion. Gun cases, one Murder case. Prostitution, and even one child pornography case. I thought they went a little overboard there, as far as presenting evidence, they passed around over 2 dozen pics for us to look at. I got the point after the first one.

 

We'd only meet 3 days a month for 12 months. You'd get a schedule for the whole year at the beginning so you knew the days and could plan around it. While you were required to be available for those 3 days, most months it was only 2 days, sometimes only 1. It's also where I was the morning of Sept 11th, 2001. ...

[The Wolf]

Wow...imagine that....now if you could just provide a link to that Perry Mason and maybe we could concur. You could have simply disagreed....but if you would like to be an ass...it is easy cause it seems you are all ass.

 

No need for that...you disagree with what you read in here, so be it. To call people "ass?" No class.

[Bill Swerski]

I think Petrino has basically hit the jackpot: if there was any wondering whether or not his new system would be accepted and run by Michael Vick it effectively is gone. And with that the team is no longer Vick's from his tenure with the team and his "most exciting player in the league" mantra it is now squarely the Petrino who Blank will listen to and consider first. You have to believe Vick will be completely out of the picture before too long.

 

In short, if there was any internal political struggle between who ultimately had the owner's ear between Petrino and Vick, Petrino just won by default.

 

Not only that, but Petrino wasn't going to win anything with Vick as his starting QB. He won't win with Harrington either, but they no have the chance to draft a QB who can complete passes to his WRs.

[The Wolf]

I think Petrino has basically hit the jackpot: if there was any wondering whether or not his new system would be accepted and run by Michael Vick it effectively is gone. And with that the team is no longer Vick's from his tenure with the team and his "most exciting player in the league" mantra it is now squarely the Petrino who Blank will listen to and consider first. You have to believe Vick will be completely out of the picture before too long.

 

In short, if there was any internal political struggle between who ultimately had the owner's ear between Petrino and Vick, Petrino just won by default.

 

This is a very valid point here, one I had NOT considered...being a limited thinker and all! Well done, Pope.

[Azazello1313]

If a person is under indictment....they have an opportunity to be at the Grand Jury....

 

umm, they're not "under indictment" until the grand jury is finished with the case. i'm not really trying to be a dick here, you just don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

[Big Talker]

Vick has played in his last NFL game. Even if he somehow avoids prison, there are just too many people who will never forgive him for this. Any NFL owner who would seriously consider Vick as the starting QB for his franchise would have to be nuts, not to mention a terrible businessman.

 

I hope for the sake of Falcons fans that Vick has some sort of morals clause in his contract that would allow the team to terminate his services without financial penalty.

[PSULions]

The USDA and other federal agencies will now be sifting through all aspects of his life. The dogfighting investigation easily could grow into examinations of his income, taxes and other holdings. If they find sufficient evidence, the federal agencies will submit it to the U.S. Department of Justice and then, possibly, to a grand jury for indictment.

 

These charges are only the beginning! Once you get the financial agents involved, it will get VERY UGLY! There will be a lis pendens filed on the property and he will not be able to sell it. The organized gambling (RICO) and or money charges he may face will make the dog fighting part of this case look like a traffic ticket!

 

After reading the linked articles as to what we know, and knowing how the system works, whatever is sealed in the search warrant at this point has got to be heavy weight! Racateering and interstate gambling charges are a distinct possibility!

 

I had a client that I worked with that became a target of a Federal investigation and the government will stop at nothing to get a conviction on high profile cases like this. I had my PC files and emails copied and sent to the Feds as they collected information to build their case and I even got a trip to NYC to be "interviewed" by the Asst. AG, the SEC and the FBI to go over many documents that I had done over a period of time related to this person and the case they were making against him. Fortunately, for me I did not get disposed when it went to trial, but I guarantee they will look for any type of evidence that they can find. Emails are particularly damning and my guess is that emails and test messages will be a big part of the chain of evidence that helps them build their case against Vick.

 

I think the Falcons will have to take action soon as they will get crucified if they sit and do nothing until the legal process starts to unfold over the next few months. He will be a HUGH distraction to the team, he will get crucified by people in the stands yelling at him at any road game and probably at home too. I am just not sure how he will effectively lead the Falcons this season, with this HUGH cloud hanging over him. I think the Falcons want to do the right thing to let the legal system work and give him is due process, but they need to take a stand to have the team painted with the same brush. My best guess is that either the Falcons or the NFL gives him a "Leave of Absence" for this year while he attends to the legal mess that he is now looking at. He will either be found "Not Guilty" and be able to go back to the Falcons if they still want him, or his NFL career will likely be toast as he will be serving time in 2008 and beyond.

Edited July 18, 2007 by PSULions

[TheShiznit]

Wow...imagine that....now if you could just provide a link to that Perry Mason and maybe we could concur. You could have simply disagreed....but if you would like to be an ass...it is easy cause it seems you are all ass.

 

After a phone call to my elder law attorney....this is the rule. You are afforded the option to make a statement only if the prosecutor invites you. This never happens according to her. I was thinking of the oldtime petit juries. And even then she thinks my thinking was a bit shady. But hey...at least I didn't say peoples stuff was bad information as a snide attempt at belittlement. So, in short, you can give a statement in the Grand Jury...but only if the prosecutor invites you too....either way your attorney cannot be present.

[jgcoach]

Dukes, on NFL Network was saying that his concensus is that there are not many fans in Atlanta that think this is a big deal. (Vick's dog fighting) Dukes feels they will stand behind their big star and Vick is the most provocative player in the NFL. If this is the case, they deserve everything they get with Vick. How can you not be ticked-off that your so-called "star" put himself in the position Vick has done?

[Big Talker]

Dukes, on NFL Network was saying that his concensus is that there are not many fans in Atlanta that think this is a big deal. (Vick's dog fighting) Dukes feels they will stand behind their big star and Vick is the most provocative player in the NFL. If this is the case, they deserve everything they get with Vick. How can you not be ticked-off that your so-called "star" put himself in the position Vick has done?

Sounds like the NFL is trying to spin this because they're worried about losing one of their big stars. They better get off that train quick before public anger turns against them.

[Randall]

Dukes, on NFL Network was saying that his concensus is that there are not many fans in Atlanta that think this is a big deal. (Vick's dog fighting) Dukes feels they will stand behind their big star and Vick is the most provocative player in the NFL. If this is the case, they deserve everything they get with Vick. How can you not be ticked-off that your so-called "star" put himself in the position Vick has done?

 

 

I like Jamie but don't think he speaks for Atlanta fans as a whole. Also Arthur Blank wants to maintain his image as a upstanding team so I doubt this flies with the team.

 

Any Falcons wants want to clarify?

[Azazello1313]

But hey...at least I didn't say peoples stuff was bad information as a snide attempt at belittlement.

 

was it bad info or wasn't it? i wasn't attempting to belittle you, i don't know you from adam, i was simply pointing out that what you posted was wrong. don't take it so hard.

[H8tank]

Black People love OJ and they think he killed his wife.

 

 

fixed...

[McNasty]

So, does anyone know if the Falcons can use a "Detrimental Conduct" clause in Vick's contract to suspend him now? Or do they have to wait and see what comes from the case before imposing any suspensions, etc.?

 

I imagine even Blank and Co., not to mention Goodell, are on "Damage Control Alert: Ultraviolet" trying to distance themselves from this trainwreck. The sad thing is, I can see Vick hiring Johnny Cochrane and fighting any possible action the league or the Falcons throw at him.

[PSULions]

The sad thing is, I can see Vick hiring Johnny Cochrane and fighting any possible action the league or the Falcons throw at him.

 

Johnnie Cochrane is dead. - (October 2, 1937 – March 29, 2005)

 

Perhaps he could hire another famous attorney though....

 

Jackie Chiles

 

Of course he didn't get the Seinfeld gang off, so he may not be the best choice either...

Edited July 18, 2007 by PSULions

[irish]

Johnnie Cochrane is dead. - (October 2, 1937 – March 29, 2005)

 

Perhaps he could hire another famous attorney though....

 

Jackie Chiles

 

Of course he didn't get the Seinfeld gang off, so he may not be the best choice either...

 

[Rockerbraves]

Johnnie Cochrane is dead. - (October 2, 1937 – March 29, 2005)

 

Perhaps he could hire another famous attorney though....

 

Jackie Chiles

 

Of course he didn't get the Seinfeld gang off, so he may not be the best choice either...

 

Yet another promising innocent young african-american scapegoated by the racist white slave owning legal system.

[McBoog]

After a phone call to my elder law attorney....this is the rule. You are afforded the option to make a statement only if the prosecutor invites you. This never happens according to her. I was thinking of the oldtime petit juries. And even then she thinks my thinking was a bit shady. But hey...at least I didn't say peoples stuff was bad information as a snide attempt at belittlement. So, in short, you can give a statement in the Grand Jury...but only if the prosecutor invites you too....either way your attorney cannot be present.

 

Out of everything in our legal system that seems to favor the accused, there are two blaring advantages that the prosecutors have in the legal process.

 

1) The Grand Jury is in reality a tool that gathers information and generates indictments, which is controlled soley by The People / prosecuting attorney. There is no forum for defense challenge, and the target is generally not invited and as a matter of fact may not even know that a GJ has been convened to indict him. Even after indictment, these can be sealed and only a chosen few know that an indictment has occured. Information on a Grand Jury Subpoena is sealed and only those included on a disclosure list are privvy to the returned information. The defense has no say in what happens there. The defendant would be very stooopid to get anywhere near it.

 

2) In trial, the prosecution gets to go first and last. They do opening statements, and at closing, they get first closing, then defense closing and then the prosecutor gets to do a final summary with no rebuttal by the defense.

 

I know this and have provided no "link" because it is part of what I do for a living. The accused has no "right" to appear before the Grand Jury.

[Savage Beatings]

But hey...at least I didn't say peoples stuff was bad information as a snide attempt at belittlement.

 

was it bad info or wasn't it? i wasn't attempting to belittle you, i don't know you from adam, i was simply pointing out that what you posted was wrong. don't take it so hard.

 

Hey Shiz... there is a long standing Huddlism of posting a reply of "good info here" as a way of agreeing with a particular quoted post (and usually it's made in a humorous light). I took Az's reply to simply be a twist on that custom... I don't think he was being as hard on you as you think he was being.

[MikesVikes]

Dukes, on NFL Network was saying that his concensus is that there are not many fans in Atlanta that think this is a big deal. (Vick's dog fighting) Dukes feels they will stand behind their big star and Vick is the most provocative player in the NFL. If this is the case, they deserve everything they get with Vick. How can you not be ticked-off that your so-called "star" put himself in the position Vick has done?

 

The NFL network is certainly not an unbiased source for news and opinions. I'm surprised that they don't type with their pom poms. Or I don't have any evidence that they don't.