FishFreak Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 How do you guys feel about the revised serpentine drafting going on to level the playing field? Please share if it's worked out for you in past leagues or leagues already drafted this year. If you're not familiar, it goes like this: To offset guys picking early in drafts and getting distinct advantages with guys like LT, S. Jackson etc., the serpentine draft order remains the same throughout EXCEPT in the 3rd round which is reversed. So let's say you have the 12th pick in a 12 team league. You would then pick 12th (1st rd.), 13th (2nd rd.), 25th (3rd rd.) and 37th (4th rd.). If you had the 1st pick, you would pick 1st (1st rd.), 36th (3rd rd.), 48th (4th rd.) and 49th (5th rd.). It seems to be the new thing and I like it. After all, most people who had LT last year probably won their league. It definately evens things out to compete fairly against super studs. This philosophy has two major flaws though. It assumes the guys picking 1-3 will make the right picks and those guys will be super studs. If LT comes down to earth or S. Jackson gets hurt, etc. the guys picking later in the draft should have deeper teams and not be top heavy. Thoughts???? Based on feedback, I'm also trying to figure out a way to convince my league to make the switch. It might be a tough sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 How do you guys feel about the revised serpentine drafting going on to level the playing field? Please share if it's worked out for you in past leagues or leagues already drafted this year. If you're not familiar, it goes like this: To offset guys picking early in drafts and getting distinct advantages with guys like LT, S. Jackson etc., the serpentine draft order remains the same throughout EXCEPT in the 3rd round which is reversed. So let's say you have the 12th pick in a 12 team league. You would then pick 12th (1st rd.), 13th (2nd rd.), 25th (3rd rd.) and 37th (4th rd.). If you had the 1st pick, you would pick 1st (1st rd.), 36th (3rd rd.), 48th (4th rd.) and 49th (5th rd.). It seems to be the new thing and I like it. After all, most people who had LT last year probably won their league. It definately evens things out to compete fairly against super studs. This philosophy has two major flaws though. It assumes the guys picking 1-3 will make the right picks and those guys will be super studs. If LT comes down to earth or S. Jackson gets hurt, etc. the guys picking later in the draft should have deeper teams and not be top heavy. Thoughts???? Based on feedback, I'm also trying to figure out a way to convince my league to make the switch. It might be a tough sell. We have discussed this in Huddle Ladder League and I think there is support for 2008 switch ... I am all for it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelhead Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I'd like to hear more discussion on this. I like it but it definitely woudl be a tough sell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I don't like it. At all. And I'd think whoever had Jackson or MJD won there leagues. Every team that had LT in all of my leagues lost in the playoffs... To teams that had either Jackson, or MJD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 So the team picking 1st, doesnt get a 2nd round pick. No way in hell Im agreeing to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 So the team picking 1st, doesnt get a 2nd round pick. No way in hell Im agreeing to that. I can't believe Ryan and myself agree on something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 So the team picking 1st, doesnt get a 2nd round pick. No way in hell Im agreeing to that. What are you talking about Sarge? And why would you not agree to some equalization? You just about jizzed yourself when you drew slot one in Huddle Ladder ... if ts that helpful to have one of the two or three early slots (and we all know it is) then why not even up the later picks by reversing the third round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Having a flex position, levels the playing field. Think about it, it frees teams up later to not have to pick a certain position, and go with best player available. In the ladder league, I got the 1st pick, and took LT. But by the time the draft got back to me, Magahee was the best RB available, so I went Harrison, Fitzgerald on the turn. And ended up with Norwood as my #2 back at the end of round 4/5 turn. Id say that leveled the playing field quit a bit. Draft. http://football35.myfantasyleague.com/2007...=70226&O=17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major-tom Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 So the team picking 1st, doesnt get a 2nd round pick. No way in hell Im agreeing to that. No, wouldn't you still get the last pick in the 2nd round? I think he just left that out of his example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Having a flex position, levels the playing field. Think about it, it frees teams up later to not have to pick a certain position, and go with best player available. In the ladder league, I got the 1st pick, and took LT. But by the time the draft got back to me, Magahee was the best RB available, so I went Harrison, Fitzgerald on the turn. And ended up with Norwood as my #2 back at the end of round 4/5 turn. Id say that leveled the playing field quit a bit. Draft. http://football35.myfantasyleague.com/2007...=70226&O=17 No, you had the same flex ability. Its a PPR and you have the No. 1 RB who scored alkmost 2x as many points as the RBs we draft ten picks later and your choice of two of the top 4 or so WRs ... Yes, you have to settle for a RB flyer who unless he breaks out may score 40 less points than one of our 2 or 3 rounders ... but with LT beating our RB1 by 150 points and a dynamite WR squad ... How is flex evening the field again? Another way to put it is if you take 2006 weekly scoring, you or Big John wipe the field mainly due to the huge point discrepency from getting LT or Sjax ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 No, wouldn't you still get the last pick in the 2nd round? I think he just left that out of his example. This is correct. 1 picks 1/24/36/37 etc. THe main arguments for it were cited using a rival sites fantasy pick value calculator. So long as you feel their method for valuating picks is at least close to correct, than the math certainly shows that the modified serpentine provides a much more balanced draft than a traditional serpentine. If you are not sold on their vauation method, then the results may seem different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 No, you had the same flex ability. Its a PPR and you have the No. 1 RB who scored alkmost 2x as many points as the RBs we draft ten picks later and your choice of two of the top 4 or so WRs ... Yes, you have to settle for a RB flyer who unless he breaks out may score 40 less points than one of our 2 or 3 rounders ... but with LT beating our RB1 by 150 points and a dynamite WR squad ... How is flex evening the field again? Another way to put it is if you take 2006 weekly scoring, you or Big John wipe the field mainly due to the huge point discrepency from getting LT or Sjax ... S Jax wasnt a top pick a yr ago. In fact in my local he went 11. So this idea is even more bogus now that I look at it. When was the last yr the top player was #1 2 yrs in a row. What the Priest Holmes days? For the 2nd yr in a row, a top 5 player was drafted in most leagues in round 4 or later. Last yr, Gore was taken in round 4 in most leagues, and the yr before that it was LJ. I feel I can win a league with any draft position. Why should those picking later, who can get 2 of the top 13 players, also get the benefit of pick #25, while those picking higher, say #4 or 5, get kicked in the nuts. This idea is bogus as hell. #1 has to wait till #24 to pick again, and should damn well get to pick at #25. Why are people trying to change things now. This is as ludicrous as the NBA talking about going to a playoff system eliminating conferences once the top 8 in each are decided, and the #1 seed playing the #16 seed based on record. Or more relevant to football, the 80s and 90s, when the NFC was so dominate, there was talk of changing the playoff format back then. Its bogus if you ask me, and doesnt equal anything out. Draft wisely, and use a flex position lineup, and any advantage of LT or whoever can be trumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 This is correct. 1 picks 1/24/36/37 etc. THe main arguments for it were cited using a rival sites fantasy pick value calculator. So long as you feel their method for valuating picks is at least close to correct, than the math certainly shows that the modified serpentine provides a much more balanced draft than a traditional serpentine. If you are not sold on their vauation method, then the results may seem different. So if #1 goes down, the exact opposite is in effect. Those drafting late have a huge advantage. I wont ever play in a league that does this, I dont care where I draft. Ive won leagues at every draft spot there is, so I definately dont buy into some so called value calculater telling me I should be better if I pick 1st than last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 (edited) No, you had the same flex ability. Its a PPR and you have the No. 1 RB who scored alkmost 2x as many points as the RBs we draft ten picks later and your choice of two of the top 4 or so WRs ... Yes, you have to settle for a RB flyer who unless he breaks out may score 40 less points than one of our 2 or 3 rounders ... but with LT beating our RB1 by 150 points and a dynamite WR squad ... How is flex evening the field again? Another way to put it is if you take 2006 weekly scoring, you or Big John wipe the field mainly due to the huge point discrepency from getting LT or Sjax ... S Jax went 11th in my local last yr. Gore went round 4. Both are top 3-4 in every draft Ive seen this yr. You still think this holds water. You are putting to much weight into last yrs numbers. I dont think LT will come close to repeating last yrs numbers. hell he was the consensus #3 pick a yr ago, and is going 1 in every league this yr. If you care, go read my post about the flex in the HOF forum. Its clear that leveled the playing field. I can agree having a top 3 pick is a benefit in a non flex league, if you can put two top 6 WRs with a top 3 RB and the #22-24 RB. But having the ability to start 3 RBs, 5 teams in the HOF ladder league drafted 3 RB in the top 4 rounds, leaving me with the huddles #27 ranked RB Norwood as my 2nd back, to go with 2 solid Wrs and LT. Using the flex --------- The more starters you use each week spreads out any advantage any one player has over the field. Its that simple...... Id rather go to a mandatory start 2 QB system, or the ability to use a Qb in the flex, before Id agree to something as ridiculous as this idea...... Edited August 2, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I'm with you sarge, thats why I said you had to be very confident in the valuation method used to weigh picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 (edited) So if #1 goes down, the exact opposite is in effect. Those drafting late have a huge advantage. I wont ever play in a league that does this, I dont care where I draft. Ive won leagues at every draft spot there is, so I definately dont buy into some so called value calculater telling me I should be better if I pick 1st than last. You dont really believe picks 3-12 are as valuable as pick 1 or 2 ... Every time I have drafted with you and you had the chance you picked one of the early picks. Now, you tell me it does not matter? Your actions speak louder than your words Sarge ... However, I agree with you that you can win a league from any spot ... I also have done that. Its just much easier when you have a top pick ... Look, if LT goes down, pick 1 is screwed. But frankly, if Reggie Bush goes down, pick 10 is just as screwed ... I like you Sarge, but you know the early picks have an advantage. I at least want to hear that from you, even if you think this solution is inequitable ... Edited August 2, 2007 by Beaumont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Of course the easiest way to solve this is to auction instead of draft ... The ultimate equalizer ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 (edited) So the team picking 1st, doesnt get a 2nd round pick. No way in hell Im agreeing to that. The second round remains unchanged. It's ONLY the third round that gets changed. The 1.01 picker doesn't get the 3.01. He gets to go back to jail, do not collect $200 and wait for 3.12. Then it's typical snake after that. Edited August 2, 2007 by MikesVikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 You dont really believe picks 3-12 are as valuable as pick 1 or 2 ... Every time I have drafted with you and you had the chance you picked one of the early picks. Now, you tell me it does not matter? Your actions speak louder than your words Sarge ... However, I agree with you that you can win a league from any spot ... I also have done that. Its just much easier when you have a top pick ... Look, if LT goes down, pick 1 is screwed. But frankly, if Reggie Bush goes down, pick 10 is just as screwed ... I like you Sarge, but you know the early picks have an advantage. I at least want to hear that from you, even if you think this solution is inequitable ... It doesnt matter. But if its my choice, Im taking LT and using MY judgement from there. Its that simple. Leagues are not won in round 1, but they can certainly be lost there. I like to think I know what Im doing, and it doesnt matter where I pick, as I can win from anywhere. This business is a speculative risk business. Its gambling on this guy duplicating last yr, for higher picks, and those picking later, looking for a break out player. There are no guarantees. Every yr players break out, that arent picked high. Every yr, players disappoint. Its the nature of this business. But if Im going to gamble, and I have a choice, Im taking the least amount of risk as possible. This yr, everyone thinks that is LT. Last yr it was SA or LJ. So we gamble, and hope to hit it big..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 (edited) It doesnt matter. But if its my choice, Im taking LT and using MY judgement from there. Its that simple. Leagues are not won in round 1, but they can certainly be lost there. I like to think I know what Im doing, and it doesnt matter where I pick, as I can win from anywhere. This business is a speculative risk business. Its gambling on this guy duplicating last yr, for higher picks, and those picking later, looking for a break out player. There are no guarantees. Every yr players break out, that arent picked high. Every yr, players disappoint. Its the nature of this business. But if Im going to gamble, and I have a choice, Im taking the least amount of risk as possible. This yr, everyone thinks that is LT. Last yr it was SA or LJ. So we gamble, and hope to hit it big..... 1) It doesnt matter and 2) I like no 1 to get LT cause he = less risk contradict ... Anyways, I made my point. Serpentine drafts just have a bit of a flaw IMHO because when one guy gets 3 of the top 25 players, that is an advantage. Insurmountable? No, of course not. You still have to pick rounds 2 on correctly. But an advantage nonetheless, whether you call it "the least amount of risk possible" or something else ... See you in the regular season Sarge ... Edited August 2, 2007 by Beaumont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 1) It doesnt matterand 2) I like no 1 to get LT cause he = less risk contradict ... Anyways, I made my point. Serpentine drafts just have a bit of a flaw IMHO because when one guy gets 3 of the top 25 players, that is an advantage. Insurmountable? No, of course not. You still have to pick rounds 2 on correctly. But an advantage nonetheless, whether you call it "the least amount of risk possible" or something else ... See you in the regular season Sarge ... no contradict. It doesnt matter. PERIOD. Do you think Tiger Woods cares if you or I tee off 50 yard ahead of him on every hole in a round of golf. . It may seem like an advantage to us, but in the end, it doesnt matter. He is going to beat us anyway. Lets just say, I feel the same way about FF. I dont win every league I play, far from it, but I feel no matter where I pick, I can win. I only want to play in leagues where everyone has the same mind set. That they feel they can win no matter where they pick. BTW, I always take the highest available pick, more or less because I'm usually chomping at the bit to get things underway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I think it sucks. Pretty much just based on how it's been before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Miscreant Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Serpentine drafts just have a bit of a flaw IMHO because when one guy gets 3 of the top 25 players, that is an advantage. "3 of the top 25 players" Says who? They are pre-season ranked by human beings and quite often different people have very different rankings and most of those people end up being wrong more often than right. The number 2 RB in FF last year and I believe #1 during the FF playoff stretch was SJax and he was drafted in the latter half of the 1st round in about 9,000,000 drafts last year. Last year, Parker, Gore, Jones-Drew, Betts, Addai, McAllister and Green all ended up top 15 RBs but a couple were rarely picked in the top 25 and several didn't get picked until the 4th or 5th rounds, if even drafted at all. So this begs the question, who really are the top 25 players? Quit worrying so much about semantics when analyzing someone's point and look at the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 Nice debate...similar to what I can expect when I bring this suggestion up in my league. The one thing though that shouldn't be used in this argue ment is the ole what if my player gets hurt crap. If LT or any stud goes down your screwed anyway. Some guys are just impossible to replace. This system is also based on the assumption that guys know what they are doing and draft accordingly. Obviously that is rarely the case but the revised serpentine style draft levels the drafting field. The guys picking 1 & 2 this year have a distinct advantage in the traditional serpentine 12 owner league. If a guy knows what he's doing, the 1, 24, 25 and 2, 23, 26 picks will be solid players giving those owners a slight advantage over most other guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 How do you guys feel about the revised serpentine drafting going on to level the playing field? Please share if it's worked out for you in past leagues or leagues already drafted this year. If you're not familiar, it goes like this: After all, most people who had LT last year probably won their league. It definately evens things out to compete fairly against super studs. This philosophy has two major flaws though. It assumes the guys picking 1-3 will make the right picks and those guys will be super studs. If LT comes down to earth or S. Jackson gets hurt, etc. the guys picking later in the draft should have deeper teams and not be top heavy. Thoughts???? Based on feedback, I'm also trying to figure out a way to convince my league to make the switch. It might be a tough sell. Actually at playoff time SJax was better. I do like it though since I never get a high pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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