MikesVikes Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 No, according to my theory, 1.12 and 2.1 are more valuable than 1.1 and 2.12. So you're also saying that drafting in the top of the second round is more valuable than drafting in the top of the first round. So your second round players hold more value than the first round. How do you figure that? I've never seen anywhere where the second round players are better than the first rounders. Wouldn't those second round players be first rounders in a typical draft if they were the better players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 SD was the best team last year, yet they didn't win the Super Bowl. So are you saying the NFL playoff system is flawed and needs to award the team that finishes with the best record? We were talking fantasy football right? Fantasy has many more different dynamics than the real NFL world. The whole purpose around fantasy football is based on generating points from your players. My league still conducts a fatasy SB playoff system but rewards the biggest money prize and championship to the team with the most overall points at the end of the season. I've been involved and seen too many teams win a SB in fantasy because they got into the playoffs and managed to get hot during weeks 15 & 16 or even worse just got lucky with match-ups and caught their opponents on bad weeks. That shouldn't determine the champion over the course of a whole season for a game solely based on points generated from your players IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 You sure think you know how to weasel your way out of spewing crap, don't you. "Had I drafted better." You're a freakin' girl. Post edit - BTW, BJ & DMD, no need to pull the plug on this. This is going nowhere with Ol' Sargey & I'm done going head to head with him. Wow, old BB is coming out today isnt he. Seriously, someone doesnt agree with your view, and they are not competent to understand what you are saying. Get real dude. I have obviously got a few that see it my way, and I certainly put up a better argument than you did, why it shouldnt change to your why it should. So you resort to attacks, rather than the point. Typical old BB sh*t. You will get 2 chances this yr to compete against me. IDP Mock, and HOF. You dont stack up in either league and you know it. So good luck next yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 We were talking fantasy football right? Fantasy has many more different dynamics than the real NFL world. The whole purpose around fantasy football is based on generating points from your players. My league still conducts a fatasy SB playoff system but rewards the biggest money prize and championship to the team with the most overall points at the end of the season. I've been involved and seen too many teams win a SB in fantasy because they got into the playoffs and managed to get hot during weeks 15 & 16 or even worse just got lucky with match-ups and caught their opponents on bad weeks. That shouldn't determine the champion over the course of a whole season for a game solely based on points generated from your players IMO. That is why some leagues are "over-all points" and some are "head to head", my above mentioned closed down local had both, and the "most over-all points" took home the big $$(pay-out went to 1st-3rd in over-all points and the SB Champ) and the SB Champ took home close to the 3rd place finisher in OAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 (edited) So you're also saying that drafting in the top of the second round is more valuable than drafting in the top of the first round. So your second round players hold more value than the first round. How do you figure that? I've never seen anywhere where the second round players are better than the first rounders. Wouldn't those second round players be first rounders in a typical draft if they were the better players? First of all, he's not talking about value at all. Secondly, he's not saying that one individual player in the 2nd round is better than the first round player. His argument boils down to that the scoring of potential of the first player selected in the draft and the last player selected in the first round isn't enough to make up for the difference between the potential that the first player selected in the second round has over the last player in the 2nd round. It's an inherently absurd argument, since if one is selecting players in the first round one would assume owners would be looking for the highest scoring players possible and therefore the last player chosen in the first round shouldn't in any way, shape, or form be capable of performing in that manner, but he's turned it into a time travel argument, where one knows what performance a player is going to put forth - known by looking at how they finished that season - and using that information in drafting the players before the season actually starts in the year they put forth that performance. That's the way he justifies his argument thta Alexander shouldn't have been the 1st pick last year, and so that Alexander was overvalued, which an owner was supposed to know before they drafted him. It's kind of an offshoot of the predicted injury argument, with a twist & a half gainer. Edited August 2, 2007 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 You will get 2 chances this yr to compete against me. IDP Mock, and HOF. You dont stack up in either league and you know it. So good luck next yr. We'll see, won't we. It ought to be interesting to hear your excuses if you lose despite coming out of the 1 & 2 hole in each draft, whereas I intentionally chose a slot down in the draft to challenge myself in one draft, and then drew the same spot in the other draft. I have to admit, it must have been awfully tough on you to make LT the #1 pick in one draft & SJax the pick in the #2 other. That's okay - you'll need the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 We'll see, won't we. It ought to be interesting to hear your excuses if you lose despite coming out of the 1 & 2 hole in each draft, whereas I intentionally chose a slot down in the draft to challenge myself in one draft, and then drew the same spot in the other draft. I have to admit, it must have been awfully tough on you to make LT the #1 pick in one draft & SJax the pick in the #2 other. That's okay - you'll need the help. The Gaunlet has been laid!!!! Sig line bet's fella's?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Scorp Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Well, good. Since you are so sure that owners drafting later in round 1 have an advanatge, i'll give you a chance to put up or shut up. In the Huddle Ladder Hall of Fame draft, you had the 1.01 and 2.12 picks. I had the 1.09 and 2.04 picks. You picked LT with 1.01 and Harrison with 2.12. I picked Parker with 1.09 and S Smith with 2.04. All four guys went at appropriate value, so according to you, I should have an advantage. Being magnanimous like I am, I'm willing to relinquish that advanatge to you. I'll swap you Parker & Smith for LT & Harrison. Your #1 RB/#1 WR for my #1 RB/#1 WR. I'll send you the offer at the mfl.com site and expect your acceptance. Let's see if you believe what you're shoveling here: Bronco Billy have proposed a trade with Sgt. Ryan Bronco Billy will give up: Parker, Willie PIT RB Smith, Steve CAR WR Sgt. Ryan will give up: Tomlinson, Ladainian SDC RB Harrison, Marvin IND WR BB I actually read the entire thread and I have say your argument above was very shrewd, yet is very flawed. Sarge built his team around having a STUD RB in LT2. Clearly trading Harrison for Smith is a break even probably edge to Smith but trading Parker for LT2 is a brainfart! Your logic of using Sarges argument of 1.12/2.1 being as valuable as 1.1/2.12 is flawed because of who you picked at 1.12 and 2.1. Knowing that I do not have a stud RB would cause me to draft two RB's on the turn. You choose to get a stud WR, which may work for you and probably tried to get RB’s in the next few rounds to sure up your team. To offer Sarge a trade swapping your top two picks after he has built his team around those picks is silly and you are smart enough to know it. You would basically upgrade your #1 RB and stay almost the same at #1 WR. Win win for you as you built your team around that strategy. Using values based on predictions is also flawed. Now if you follow BC's logic of using statistical info to prove that the first few picks have an advantage when it comes to winning league championships, I'll drink your kool-aid. However currently you are just throwing around hypotheticals to prove your point. I will throw out this information to with real data.... I had the first pick in my local 10 team league draft last year and took LT2, but lost in the Champ game to the guy who took SA at #2. It was the second time in the history of the league (20 years) where the first two picks met in the Champ game. The #1 pick has made it 4 times and won it 2, the #2 pick has made it 5 times and won it 2, The position that has won it most? #10 has won it 4 times. That is statistical proof over a 20 year period. 2 owners have won 7 champs and have made it to the finals 12 times in those 20 years. (we met last year in the finals). I have won the league 4 times and each time won it with a different pick (1, 4, 8, and 10). That show me that it is the owners not the position of the draft that wins championships. As many of us who have played the game for years can attest to, FF is 90% luck and 10% skill. If you want to alleviate your perceived disadvantage when drafting at the back end start joining auction leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 BB I actually read the entire thread and I have say your argument above was very shrewd, yet is very flawed. Sarge built his team around having a STUD RB in LT2. Clearly trading Harrison for Smith is a break even probably edge to Smith but trading Parker for LT2 is a brainfart! Your logic of using Sarges argument of 1.12/2.1 being as valuable as 1.1/2.12 is flawed because of who you picked at 1.12 and 2.1. Knowing that I do not have a stud RB would cause me to draft two RB's on the turn. You choose to get a stud WR, which may work for you and probably tried to get RB’s in the next few rounds to sure up your team. That's one strategy, but hardly the only viable one. Are you saying that S Smith being drafted at 2.04 in a ppr league is a bad pick and that there is better value with the 15th RB off the board than there is with Smith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 That's one strategy, but hardly the only viable one. Are you saying that S Smith being drafted at 2.04 in a ppr league is a bad pick and that there is better value with the 15th RB off the board than there is with Smith? I'll answer that.....hell no, as Smitty has a goal of 2,000 rcv yds this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 We'll see, won't we. It ought to be interesting to hear your excuses if you lose despite coming out of the 1 & 2 hole in each draft, whereas I intentionally chose a slot down in the draft to challenge myself in one draft, and then drew the same spot in the other draft. I have to admit, it must have been awfully tough on you to make LT the #1 pick in one draft & SJax the pick in the #2 other. That's okay - you'll need the help. As Ive said many times before, Leagues arent wont in round 1, just lost there. Taking a ho hum Willie Parker at that spot sealed your fate. Sorry pal. no excuses from me, though you just listed one above, as why you will lose. Nice accusing me of going to do, what you just did yourself. Typical....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I'll answer that.....hell no, as Smitty has a goal of 2,000 rcv yds this year. That I've got to see. I hope he's right, I own him in 2 leagues. Did he happen to mention how many catches he'll need to get to 2000 yds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 That I've got to see. I hope he's right, I own him in 2 leagues. Did he happen to mention how many catches he'll need to get to 2000 yds? No, but he wants to break JRice single season record this year-so he put his ceiling at 2,000 yds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 As Ive said many times before, Leagues arent wont in round 1, just lost there. Taking a ho hum Willie Parker at that spot sealed your fate. Sorry pal. no excuses from me, though you just listed one above, as why you will lose. Nice accusing me of going to do, what you just did yourself. Typical....... Tell you what, Sargey, since you're so willing to run your mouth about this, do me a favor: List the RBs that you'd pick before parker, and then give us all your projection for him this coming season. Talk is cheap, especially when it comes out your ass. Back it up with some rankings & some numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 We were talking fantasy football right? Fantasy has many more different dynamics than the real NFL world. The whole purpose around fantasy football is based on generating points from your players. My league still conducts a fatasy SB playoff system but rewards the biggest money prize and championship to the team with the most overall points at the end of the season. I've been involved and seen too many teams win a SB in fantasy because they got into the playoffs and managed to get hot during weeks 15 & 16 or even worse just got lucky with match-ups and caught their opponents on bad weeks. That shouldn't determine the champion over the course of a whole season for a game solely based on points generated from your players IMO. Then really if this is what you want, you should play in an all-play league, where you play every team every week. So, in a 12-team league, someone will go 11-0, someone 10-1, etc. each week. Then you could truly determine who the best team was. This way not only do total points matter, but so does consistency. You eliminate the "luck" aspect of a head to head season, although that is also one of the biggest aspects of fun in a fantasy league... talking trash with an owner in particular, especially in those unfortunate weeks when they score the second highest points of the week but still lose, or, they win with the second lowest point total for the week. Then again, seems like "fun" no longer is an important aspect of our hobby to so many people anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Then again, seems like "fun" no longer is an important aspect of our hobby to so many people anymore. Pissing contests are great fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 (edited) Pissing contests are great fun... How are losing those pissing matches. Are they great fun as well. Please tell us? Edited August 2, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major-tom Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 (edited) Hey, Mrs. Ryan, while you're at it, give me a simple response about how the difference between the last pick of the 2nd round and the first pick in the 2nd round is projected to be larger than the difference between the first player off the board & the last pick in the 1st round - that's what your whole argument hinges on. I notice you've been ducking that this whole discussion. Edited August 2, 2007 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Tell you what, Sargey, since you're so willing to run your mouth about this, do me a favor: List the RBs that you'd pick before parker, and then give us all your projection for him this coming season. Talk is cheap, especially when it comes out your ass. Back it up with some rankings & some numbers. If I have to continue to explain this to you, you dont deserve my attention. Seriously, if you cant figure out where and why you screwed up, ask someone and let them explain it to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 (edited) If I have to continue to explain this to you, you dont deserve my attention. Seriously, if you cant figure out where and why you screwed up, ask someone and let them explain it to you. Translation: "I've dropped trou, painted myself into a corner, and now I have to try to BS my way out of it." I didn't expect any less from you. It was a pretty simple request, really. Edited August 2, 2007 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Hey, Mrs. Ryan, while you're at it, give me a simple response about how the difference between the last pick of the 2nd round and the first pick in the 2nd round is projected to be larger than the difference between the first player off the board & the last pick in the 1st round - that's what your whole argument hinges on. I notice you've been ducking that this whole discussion. read the post above. If no one else cares to explain it to you, PM me, and Ill help you out......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 read the post above. If no one else cares to explain it to you, PM me, and Ill help you out......... Explain it to me here, now. Feel free to embarass me with the answer if you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewer Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I wish that I had a beer. And for the record, the first beer out of the box, 1.1, is just as valuable as the last beer out of the box, 1.24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Translation: "I've dropped trou, painted myself into a corner, and now I have to try to BS my way out of it." I didn't expect any less from you. It was a pretty simple request, really. Dude, seriously. Its like slapping you around at every turn. Whats the point, your beaten. You obviously dont have a clue how to draft a championship calibur team. Me trying to teach you would be an argument at every turn, and then after the fact, when your wrong, it will be some excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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