Kid Cid Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Men have used many excuses to wage war , kill , torture and rape ...used everything from desire for more land , desire to rid world of certain ethnic group, for money , for oil and yes have used the excuse of religion But it don't work that way ..evil men do evil things that have nothing to do with religion or what religion strives to teach ...they can hide behind it all they want but its not nor never should be the religion to blame You can't argue that anything that teaches man to be good to one another is a bad thing. However, I can argue that the methods used for getting this message across are bad at times and that the people associated with this message are bad at times and that the organizations themselves are bad at times. I would argue that these bad times are far more frequent than the good times and that when confronted with this reality, the people that are either part of these organizations or support these organizations or believe in the message that these organizations are supposed to be delivering circle the wagons, become very defensive, and hide the guilty behind the cloak of the message that is supposedly being sent. Someone around here has the sig line that reads (and I paraphrase): Good men do good things and bad men do bad things but for good men to do bad things, that takes religion. You claim that the message and the messenger are two differnt things, I suggest that we should look far more closely at the messenger for the true message that is being sent. Like any good illusionist, they get you to focus on what they want you to see while the trick is perpetrated right in front of your eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Specifics would be appreciated, friend. I guess it's just hearsay then....I lose.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 You can't argue that anything that teaches man to be good to one another is a bad thing. However, I can argue that the methods used for getting this message across are bad at times and that the people associated with this message are bad at times and that the organizations themselves are bad at times. I would argue that these bad times are far more frequent than the good times and that when confronted with this reality, the people that are either part of these organizations or support these organizations or believe in the message that these organizations are supposed to be delivering circle the wagons, become very defensive, and hide the guilty behind the cloak of the message that is supposedly being sent. Someone around here has the sig line that reads (and I paraphrase): Good men do good things and bad men do bad things but for good men to do bad things, that takes religion. You claim that the message and the messenger are two differnt things, I suggest that we should look far more closely at the messenger for the true message that is being sent. Like any good illusionist, they get you to focus on what they want you to see while the trick is perpetrated right in front of your eyes. then comes the prestige.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 How could God still be in the White House, since Rove just left? Or maybe his title was just 'genius', not God. .... he was a umm bright fellow.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 You can't argue that anything that teaches man to be good to one another is a bad thing. However, I can argue that the methods used for getting this message across are bad at times and that the people associated with this message are bad at times and that the organizations themselves are bad at times. I would argue that these bad times are far more frequent than the good times and that when confronted with this reality, the people that are either part of these organizations or support these organizations or believe in the message that these organizations are supposed to be delivering circle the wagons, become very defensive, and hide the guilty behind the cloak of the message that is supposedly being sent. There is more good in this world then bad. If this were untrue there'd be anarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 this thread is evidence of what fundamentalism does to religious discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 this thread is evidence of what fundamentalism does to religious discussion. it dies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 There is more good in this world then bad. If this were untrue there'd be anarchy. This statement is ludicrous. As a direct counterpoint I give you Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, and Hussein for starters. Tyrants are the antithesis of anarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Someone around here has the sig line that reads (and I paraphrase): Good men do good things and bad men do bad things but for good men to do bad things, that takes religion. The Misfit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ill Nuts Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Posting in the god thread!! Woot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 god point... I'm mean, ...er, :highfive: Was the typo accidental or on purpose (small "g" instead of capital "G" or did you mean "good") :shrig: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Was the typo accidental or on purpose (small "g" instead of capital "G" or did you mean "good") :shrig: Is that :shrig: accidental or on purpose ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 (edited) Is that :shrig: accidental or on purpose ? accidental. Edited August 17, 2007 by Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Was the typo accidental or on purpose (small "g" instead of capital "G" or did you mean "good") :shrig: both ... a typo I chose not to fix ...musta been my subconscious screaming at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 This statement is ludicrous. As a direct counterpoint I give you Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, and Hussein for starters. Tyrants are the antithesis of anarchy. I counted 4 people in your post. Of course I don't know who Tojo is. Is that Mr. Miyagi's evil counterpart in Karate Kid II? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 (edited) I counted 4 people in your post. Of course I don't know who Tojo is. Is that Mr. Miyagi's evil counterpart in Karate Kid II? Tojo was the Japanese Emperor during WW II. I see history is lost on you as well. Edited August 17, 2007 by Kid Cid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Tojo was the Japanese Emperor during WW II. I see history is lost on you as well. So who was Mr. Miyagi's evil counterpart in Karate Kid II? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 There is more good in this world then bad. If this were untrue there'd be anarchy. Anarchy is neither good nor evil; merely the absence or order. And history is filled with examples of order brought about by forces of both good and evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggieFries Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 So who was Mr. Miyagi's evil counterpart in Karate Kid II? That was Sato. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 so you're assuming the bible wasn't read?... never assume... I said it was written by man...plus it was altered by man... it is a book with a bunch of stories....written by man.... unless you were there....nothing shows that anyone/thing else wrote these stories...other than man.. and religious belief is a silly way to choose friends anyways... I am not assuming anything ..I am stating if you are a beleiver , and the bible is carefully read as a beleiver , you would never believe or state it was written by man or that its made up bunch of stories ..this contradicts the whole basis of the Word of God The statement of "unless you were there is silly " ..where you there at the civil war ? If not then you could not believe it based on this premise ... And the friends comment was a joke ..I have as many non beleiving non religion practicing friends as I do beleiver friends What I find amazing is how non beleivers are so quick to shoot down the bible as a man made fairy tale ...certainly do not believe this to be the case ...faith is what it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I am not assuming anything ..I am stating if you are a beleiver , and the bible is carefully read as a beleiver , you would never believe or state it was written by man or that its made up bunch of stories ..this contradicts the whole basis of the Word of God The statement of "unless you were there is silly " ..where you there at the civil war ? If not then you could not believe it based on this premise ... And the friends comment was a joke ..I have as many non beleiving non religion practicing friends as I do beleiver friends What I find amazing is how non beleivers are so quick to shoot down the bible as a man made fairy tale ...certainly do not believe this to be the case ...faith is what it is 1st off my razz should have tipped you off that I was joking as well... 2nd automatically assuming that it is the word of god is a little silly, because as i said...there isn't much out there showing that the god in the bible was ever here to begin with... I have a different perspective of god and IMO, the bible is what man thinks god should be.....this is why there are so many times that god is contradicted in the bible anyways.... but it's whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 There is more good in this world then bad. If this were untrue there'd be anarchy. It is not a case of good vs evil as far as anarchy is concerned. It is order vs chaos. Tojo was the Japanese Emperor during WW II. Actually, he was the Japanese Prime Minister. Hirohito was the Emperor. Anarchy is neither good nor evil; merely the absence or order. And history is filled with examples of order brought about by forces of both good and evil. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 when did jumpin johnies become a bible thumper? That was Sato. u mean solo... and yes the jedi are the true supreme beings in the universe .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I am not assuming anything ..I am stating if you are a beleiver , and the bible is carefully read as a beleiver , you would never believe or state it was written by man or that its made up bunch of stories ..this contradicts the whole basis of the Word of God The statement of "unless you were there is silly " ..where you there at the civil war ? If not then you could not believe it based on this premise ... And the friends comment was a joke ..I have as many non beleiving non religion practicing friends as I do beleiver friends What I find amazing is how non beleivers are so quick to shoot down the bible as a man made fairy tale ...certainly do not believe this to be the case ...faith is what it is That is a pretty far jump to assume if you are sceptical of the validity of the written manuscript as remembered by men after the fact, and translated from different languages over the ages that you are an unbeliever. It is concerning to me how important the book is to the religion, items were added over the years that are downright contradictory to the message of God. It is a book written by men, who are extremely fallible. So taking it as blind faith that everything written in that manuscript is absolutely the will of God is disrespectful to the true word of God. And frankly makes God appear a bit wishy washy on some pretty key issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 That is a pretty far jump to assume if you are sceptical of the validity of the written manuscript as remembered by men after the fact, and translated from different languages over the ages that you are an unbeliever. It is concerning to me how important the book is to the religion, items were added over the years that are downright contradictory to the message of God. It is a book written by men, who are extremely fallible. So taking it as blind faith that everything written in that manuscript is absolutely the will of God is disrespectful to the true word of God. And frankly makes God appear a bit wishy washy on some pretty key issues. Let's talk new testament ...that is the book of christians and what we hold as the word of God ...please give me specifics and examples where the Word of God was changed or additions were made where it appears to make God wishy whashy ?? My argument also isThe fact it was translated over time does not automatically make it fallible either . Bible is not the only book translated over time , does that mean all other books have also been changed , manipulated as well ..its not an automatic for sure And yes Christians do believe in the Book and is the guideline of the lives that we live Being skeptical and or not understanding everything in the book does not make you an unbeleiver , thinking the book is man made fairy tales , however pretty much puts one in the unbeleiver catergory If I came off too judgemental to anyone , including avernus , I apologize as it was not my initial intention Clear that for some myself included the basis of faith and its relation to the bible is important so perhaps trying to explain it or justify itor even defend it,, can at times lead one to become overly passionate ...meant no harm though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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