The Holy Roller Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Let's talk new testament ...that is the book of christians and what we hold as the word of God ...please give me specifics and examples where the Word of God was changed or additions were made where it appears to make God wishy whashy ?? My argument also isThe fact it was translated over time does not automatically make it fallible either . Bible is not the only book translated over time , does that mean all other books have also been changed , manipulated as well ..its not an automatic for sure And yes Christians do believe in the Book and is the guideline of the lives that we live Being skeptical and or not understanding everything in the book does not make you an unbeleiver , thinking the book is man made fairy tales , however pretty much puts one in the unbeleiver catergory If I came off too judgemental to anyone , including avernus , I apologize as it was not my initial intention Clear that for some myself included the basis of faith and its relation to the bible is important so perhaps trying to explain it or justify itor even defend it,, can at times lead one to become overly passionate ...meant no harm though No need to be an apologist for what you believe to be the truth. I believe the original writings of the men referred to in II Peter 1:20,21 was THE Word of God. Folks can believe or not believe. God does the calling. But back to the subject of the entire thread.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 ...and SKINS is Mr. Miyagi's evil counter-part. In fact, he is EVERYONE'S evil counter-part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 My argument also isThe fact it was translated over time does not automatically make it fallible either . Bible is not the only book translated over time , does that mean all other books have also been changed , manipulated as well ..its not an automatic for sure Not to delve too deep into Christianity (as I see it as a diversion to the topic posted and God should only be defined as an entity in the argument), but what God wants God gets. Any true word of God will always stand true... nuff said. The study, published Thursday in the journal Science, provides further rebuttal to creationists by filling in the gaps that show how evolution occurred on a molecular level. Who's to say how God designed life? This doesn't prove anything in regards to the argument. Through a complicated computer analysis, researchers were able to re-create the ancient protein as it existed 450 million years ago in a jawed, ocean-dwelling creature that had no bones, only cartilage. From there, they re-created the protein's progression into its modern form in human beings, finding forks in the evolutionary road that could have led to a different destiny. No margin for error there I find it odd that studies like these are so readily adopted as factual... but aside from that, mixing chemicals together to create life so complex is an unsubstantiated and highly improbable theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Let's talk new testament ...that is the book of christians and what we hold as the word of God ...please give me specifics and examples where the Word of God was changed or additions were made where it appears to make God wishy whashy ?? My argument also isThe fact it was translated over time does not automatically make it fallible either . Bible is not the only book translated over time , does that mean all other books have also been changed , manipulated as well ..its not an automatic for sure And yes Christians do believe in the Book and is the guideline of the lives that we live Being skeptical and or not understanding everything in the book does not make you an unbeleiver , thinking the book is man made fairy tales , however pretty much puts one in the unbeleiver catergory If I came off too judgemental to anyone , including avernus , I apologize as it was not my initial intention Clear that for some myself included the basis of faith and its relation to the bible is important so perhaps trying to explain it or justify itor even defend it,, can at times lead one to become overly passionate ...meant no harm though there is even a site called evilbiblequotes.com I think and it lists several quotes in the bible wherein the book, God has threatened people with all kinds of things that completely contradict the word of god... when you look in the bible...they are right in there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I had a bumper sticker that read "Evolution Isn't Over". Amazingly, it was not weatherproof and through her manipulation of the sun and rain God erased it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I had a bumper sticker that read "Evolution Isn't Over". Amazingly, it was not weatherproof and through her manipulation of the sun and rain God erased it. Your bumper sticker lacked the ability to regenerate damages from it's evironment, and thus became extinct. Natural selection at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 there is even a site called evilbiblequotes.com I think and it lists several quotes in the bible wherein the book, God has threatened people with all kinds of things that completely contradict the word of god... when you look in the bible...they are right in there.... I doubt it's in the New Testament but who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 there is even a site called evilbiblequotes.com I think and it lists several quotes in the bible wherein the book, God has threatened people with all kinds of things that completely contradict the word of god... when you look in the bible...they are right in there.... i doubt its New testament for sure ...would need specifics I doubt it's in the New Testament but who knows. yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 i doubt its New testament for sure ...would need specifics yup I've found the quotes in both of the bibles in my house and online.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I doubt it's in the New Testament but who knows. Actually Paul contradicts what Jesus himself taught in several different ways, not the least of which was organizing large formal churches with public displays of worship. Jesus taught the prayer should be simple and personal, not a public spectacle. In fact he spoke at length about it in the Sermon on the Mount. (Matthew 6: 1-18). Paul took it upon himself to create the doctrine and large network of formal churches after Jesus' death. The modern organizations of religion is based upon Paul's desires, not Jesus'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 ... my belief is to not follow anything that man/woman has told me to follow... You must be single Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Actually Paul contradicts what Jesus himself taught in several different ways, not the least of which was organizing large formal churches with public displays of worship. Jesus taught the prayer should be simple and personal, not a public spectacle. In fact he spoke at length about it in the Sermon on the Mount. (Matthew 6: 1-18). Paul took it upon himself to create the doctrine and large network of formal churches after Jesus' death. The modern organizations of religion is based upon Paul's desires, not Jesus'. Paul was never what he was once The Beatles broke up. The whole was greater than the sum of its parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Let's talk new testament ...that is the book of christians and what we hold as the word of God ...please give me specifics and examples where the Word of God was changed or additions were made where it appears to make God wishy whashy ?? additions? well, the ending of the gospel of mark clearly qualifies. none of the earliest manuscripts have the current, canonized ending. it is very clearly and definitively an addition after the fact. wishy washy? well, first of all, nothing in the new testament EVER purports to be the Word of God. on the contrary, the theology of the new testament is pretty clear that the person of jesus, and ONLY jesus, is the Word (Logos) of God. and the theology of the new testament, especially in quotes attributed directly to jesus himself, is filled with the most dire warnings AGAINST liivng a religion "by the book". it's pretty ironic that the new testament itself doesn't support the bible-thumper position on scripture at all. but as far as where the text is wishy-washy....how about in first corinthians when paul is speaking about divorce, and he is very careful to separate the position he, paul, is advocating from the position jesus himself took. doesn't that uncertainty on paul's part seem a little odd if he was dictating straight from the mouth of God? or maybe paul was just a christian writing a letter to his brothers and sisters in christ... Being skeptical and or not understanding everything in the book does not make you an unbeleiver , thinking the book is man made fairy tales , however pretty much puts one in the unbeleiver catergory i would never say the bible is "fairy tales". i would say the new testament consists of most of the best records we have of the individual jesus of nazareth, and of the earliest communities that confessed his name as the messiah. the old testament is the collection of writings that gave context to the message of jesus, and laid the groundwork for everything he taught. if you believe, like the authors of the new testament did, that jesus is "christ", then you take the writings compiled in the bible very, very seriously. but you don't necessarily subscribe to the fanciful notion that God, and not the very human 1st and 2nd century disciples of jesus, held the pen. like paul also said in first corinthians, "when i was a child, i spoke as a child, i thought like a child, i reasoned like a child. when i became a man, i put away childish things". well, many christians have put away these childish fairy tales. not the bible itself, but man's idolatrous worship of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 No need to be an apologist for what you believe to be the truth. I believe the original writings of the men referred to in II Peter 1:20,21 was THE Word of God. Folks can believe or not believe. God does the calling. But back to the subject of the entire thread.... when 2 peter was written (in the second century, and NOT by peter), "scripture" was the old testament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 You must be single typical whompers response.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 additions? well, the ending of the gospel of mark clearly qualifies. none of the earliest manuscripts have the current, canonized ending. it is very clearly and definitively an addition after the fact. wishy washy? well, first of all, nothing in the new testament EVER purports to be the Word of God. on the contrary, the theology of the new testament is pretty clear that the person of jesus, and ONLY jesus, is the Word (Logos) of God. and the theology of the new testament, especially in quotes attributed directly to jesus himself, is filled with the most dire warnings AGAINST liivng a religion "by the book". it's pretty ironic that the new testament itself doesn't support the bible-thumper position on scripture at all. but as far as where the text is wishy-washy....how about in first corinthians when paul is speaking about divorce, and he is very careful to separate the position he, paul, is advocating from the position jesus himself took. doesn't that uncertainty on paul's part seem a little odd if he was dictating straight from the mouth of God? or maybe paul was just a christian writing a letter to his brothers and sisters in christ... i would never say the bible is "fairy tales". i would say the new testament consists of most of the best records we have of the individual jesus of nazareth, and of the earliest communities that confessed his name as the messiah. the old testament is the collection of writings that gave context to the message of jesus, and laid the groundwork for everything he taught. if you believe, like the authors of the new testament did, that jesus is "christ", then you take the writings compiled in the bible very, very seriously. but you don't necessarily subscribe to the fanciful notion that God, and not the very human 1st and 2nd century disciples of jesus, held the pen. like paul also said in first corinthians, "when i was a child, i spoke as a child, i thought like a child, i reasoned like a child. when i became a man, i put away childish things". well, many christians have put away these childish fairy tales. not the bible itself, but man's idolatrous worship of it. Quit trying to confuse the issue. If there are two things I know, it's that God hates f.ags and scientific advances in biology and cosmology. God bless 'merica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Quit trying to confuse the issue. If there are two things I know, it's that God hates f.ags and scientific advances in biology and cosmology. God bless 'merica. Well then, conversation over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I have had this conversation with Kid Cid a few times on here..The problem with Religion is on both sides of the fence there are people that shove it down your throat. If a person doesnt believe in God they dont want to be told they are wrong and will be damned for it..They want to be left alone in regards to that subject. A person that does believe in God doesnt want to be told they are foolish for believing in Fairy tales. In the small scheme of things unsolicited pokes with a stick on both sides is what causes over the top , angry religious discussion.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I have had this conversation with Kid Cid a few times on here..The problem with Religion is on both sides of the fence there are people that shove it down your throat. If a person doesnt believe in God they dont want to be told they are wrong and will be damned for it..They want to be left alone in regards to that subject. A person that does believe in God doesnt want to be told they are foolish for believing in Fairy tales. In the small scheme of things unsolicited pokes with a stick on both sides is what causes over the top , angry religious discussion.. pretty much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Anybody else catch The Exodus Decoded yet? If nothing else, I found it very entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I have had this conversation with Kid Cid a few times on here..The problem with Religion is on both sides of the fence there are people that shove it down your throat. If a person doesnt believe in God they dont want to be told they are wrong and will be damned for it..They want to be left alone in regards to that subject. A person that does believe in God doesnt want to be told they are foolish for believing in Fairy tales. In the small scheme of things unsolicited pokes with a stick on both sides is what causes over the top , angry religious discussion.. Hey! That reminds me. It's been a while. :twominuteslater: Thanks, pant, Whomp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I have had this conversation with Kid Cid a few times on here..The problem with Religion is on both sides of the fence there are people that shove it down your throat. If a person doesnt believe in God they dont want to be told they are wrong and will be damned for it..They want to be left alone in regards to that subject. A person that does believe in God doesnt want to be told they are foolish for believing in Fairy tales. In the small scheme of things unsolicited pokes with a stick on both sides is what causes over the top , angry religious discussion.. And that is really what it boils down to, no one likes to be told they're wrong. I'm just as guilty of it some times as the pro-god people are. It's easy to get emotionally caught up in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate lookin' at 40 Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 (edited) I just finished a book titled "The Case For Christ", written by Lee Strobel, a former athiest. The book is filled with interviews with historians and archeologist. He does a great job of disproving alot of the myths and theories put forth by athiest - such as the unreliability of the new testament. I highly recomend it for believers and non believers alike. Edited August 19, 2007 by Pirate lookin' at 40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I just finished a book titled "The Case For Christ", written by Lee Strobel, a former athiest. The book is filled with interviews with historians and archeologist. He does a great job of disproving alot of the myths and theories put forth by athiest - such as the unreliability of the new testament. I highly recomend it for believers and non believers alike. I think that being an Athiest is a bit naive...an just a simple matter of over-thinking everything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I just finished a book titled "The Case For Christ", written by Lee Strobel, a former athiest. The book is filled with interviews with historians and archeologist. He does a great job of disproving alot of the myths and theories put forth by athiest - such as the unreliability of the new testament. I highly recomend it for believers and non believers alike. You've got to be kidding me. Strobel makes nothing even remotely close to a good case. His "experts" are all from Christian colleges, and his logic is poor. I went into reading the book with a pretty open mind and was appalled at how poor it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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