Gerald Hayes to be pulled in the Nickle

[keggerz]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...-sw-cover_N.htm

 

cut, paste and bolded the important tidbit

 

"When you have Dockett and Gabe Watson and Alan Branch giving us a pocket-pushing presence inside and have the perimeter presence with Bert … it will give us the ability to put pressure on the quarterback, hopefully, from all angles," Pendergast says.

 

Dockett will slide from defensive tackle to either end spot on first and second downs when the defense figures to align in a 3-4 base. On third downs, linebacker Gerald Hayes comes out and nickel back Rod Hood replaces him. The Cardinals also have a big nickel package featuring three safeties — Wilson, Holt and Aaron Francisco.

[Sgt. Ryan]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...-sw-cover_N.htm

 

cut, paste and bolded the important tidbit

 

"When you have Dockett and Gabe Watson and Alan Branch giving us a pocket-pushing presence inside and have the perimeter presence with Bert … it will give us the ability to put pressure on the quarterback, hopefully, from all angles," Pendergast says.

 

Dockett will slide from defensive tackle to either end spot on first and second downs when the defense figures to align in a 3-4 base. On third downs, linebacker Gerald Hayes comes out and nickel back Rod Hood replaces him. The Cardinals also have a big nickel package featuring three safeties — Wilson, Holt and Aaron Francisco.

 

 

Teams are not in nickel every 3rd down, and on 3rd and 4 or less, Hayes will be in the game. So this really isnt news, as many LBs come out in this situation, on obvious passing downs.

 

There is a difference between providing useful info, and flooding readers with info that could change their view on a player, when that view is not 100% accurate.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[keggerz]

Teams are not in nickel every 3rd down, and on 3rd and 4 or less, Hayes will be in the game. So this really isnt news, as many LBs come out in this situation, on obvious passing downs.

 

There is a difference between providing useful info, and flooding readers with info that could change their view on a player, when that view is not 100% accurate.

i am sorry that the person that wrote that story made it sound like EVERY 3rd down but i made it clear it was in NICKEL SITUATIONS in the thread title... a LB that DOES PLAY in NICKEL SITUATIONS can be more valuable then one that doesnt...if you dont think it was valuable info then move on....if you are just going to continually ridicule things that i post just let me know now and I wont waste my time responding

[keggerz]

and considering that Hayes played in the nickel last yr THIS IS NEWS....just as their switch to the 3-4 is news

[Sgt. Ryan]

i am sorry that the person that wrote that story made it sound like EVERY 3rd down but i made it clear it was in NICKEL SITUATIONS in the thread title... a LB that DOES PLAY in NICKEL SITUATIONS can be more valuable then one that doesnt...if you dont think it was valuable info then move on....if you are just going to continually ridicule things that i post just let me know now and I wont waste my time responding

 

 

Whether I think its valuable info or not, if its not 100% accurate, its not important. Thispost will influence the reader to believe one thing, when in fact its very common for LBs to come off the field in passing situations, yet you name one player in particular, which the reader will use to devalue Hayes, but dont name half a dozen to a dozen others that do the same thing, you just influenced a reader to drop Hayes value, when in fact He may come off the field only 2-4 total defensive snaps a game. No one is ridiculing you.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[keggerz]

Whether I think its valuable info or not, if its not 100% accurate. This is posted to induce the reader to believe one thing, when in fact its very common for LBs to come off the field in passing situations, yet you name one player in particular, which the reader will use to devalue Hayes, but dont name half a dozen to a dozen others that do the same thing, you just influenced a reader to drop Hayes value, when in fact He may come off the field only 2-4 total defensive snaps a game. No one is ridculing you, but get real, all of a sudden you have to be in on every post in this forum, then you are reaching for compliments and a pat on the back in this post, it is obvious.

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=212473

show your a little more why dont you....someone commented on the article and i said I hope they liked it. Sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way.

 

But to get back on point posting info that a LB that played in the nickel situations last yr and isnt going to be playing in them this yr is valuable information and it might be reason to devalue you him somewhat.

 

and as for my every post in this forum, i have been active in this forum since its inception and when i have the time i am even more active.

[URLACHERisGOD]

Thanks for the heads up Keg.

[Sgt. Ryan]

show your a little more why dont you....someone commented on the article and i said I hope they liked it. Sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way.

 

But to get back on point posting info that a LB that played in the nickel situations last yr and isnt going to be playing in them this yr is valuable information and it might be reason to devalue you him somewhat.

 

and as for my every post in this forum, i have been active in this forum since its inception and when i have the time i am even more active.

 

Actually it didnt rub me the wrong way at all, it amused me, so I guess I should thank you for that. No one is ridiculing you dude. Step off the high horse and learn to take critism. If you can't do that, then take your own advice if you dont agree with what I say, and not respond to it. But if you post something I consider inaccurate or attempt to devalue a player by saying he comes off the field in nickel situation, when its very common for LBs to come off the field in nickel situations Im going to post that as well. Just like on the main board, people make posts, and others correct or give their .02 there. Nothing should be different here.

[keggerz]

Actually it didnt rub me the wrong way at all, it amused me, so I guess I should thank you for that. No one is ridiculing you dude. Step off the high horse and learn to take critism. If you can't do that, then take your own advice if you dont agree with what I say, and not respond to it. But if you post something I consider inaccurate or attempt to devalue a player by saying he comes off the field in nickel situation, when its very common for LBs to come off the field in nickel situations Im going to post that as well. Just like on the main board, people make posts, and others correct or give their .02 there. Nothing should be different here.

ok then lets be civil here and try and produce some productive stuff for people:

 

My question to you: Is there added value for a starting linebacker that plays in the nickel?

[Sgt. Ryan]

ok then lets be civil here and try and produce some productive stuff for people:

 

My question to you: Is there added value for a starting linebacker that plays in the nickel?

 

that all depends. if an OLB stays on the fied in the nickel, and Hayes who is a starting MLB/ILB goes off in the nickel, Hayes is still more valuable. So its not cut and dry. Scheme also dictate production opportunities in the nickel package.

 

Its also not a given a MLB will record a single stat, while in nickel package, in a complete game. So in this case, there is no added value what so ever. And if you devalue a quality scoring MLB like Hayes who plays 98-99% of the defensive snaps, for a LB generally ranked lower because he plays in nickel coverage, that isnt a value either. MLB's bread and butter downs are 1st and 2nd down, and 3rd and short. Hayes will be in the game on those downs. MLB's least productive downs are 3rd and longer than 4, and that is generally the nickel package downs. My input to this post was meant to slow the momentum of the post, and make people consider how often nickel is actually run, as well, as what real benefits this has in a game, or in a season.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[rajncajn]

Sarge is responding in respects to the IDP person who is less informed on how the schemes works & when the nickel is used. I don't think he was trying to ridicule you at all in that first response, he was just pointing out the fact that your post...intentional or not...was a bit misleading. And you being a very well-informed IDPer & someone who provides info for this site should realize that someone without that knowledge could be mislead into devaluing Hayes.

Edited August 22, 2007 by rajncajn

[matt770]

Okay here's a question: who is more valuable as things look right now, Hayes or Omar Gaither?

[URLACHERisGOD]

Okay here's a question: who is more valuable as things look right now, Hayes or Omar Gaither?

I'd say Hayes is still about 6 or 7 spots higher than Gaither on the rankings chart.

[rajncajn]

Okay here's a question: who is more valuable as things look right now, Hayes or Omar Gaither?

Gaither if he sticks, but I think Hayes is a much safer pick.

[Sgt. Ryan]

Gaither if he sticks, but I think Hayes is a much safer pick.

 

 

I agree with this. Its not even a guarantee Gaither plays the mike all yr long. If he struggles there, and the team feels he is better on the weak side, there is no way he outscores Hayes, if Healthy.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=207207

 

[Sgt. Ryan]

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=207207

 

 

Have you figured out the 3rd lesson to be learned in that post yet?

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Have you figured out the 3rd lesson to be learned in that post yet?

 

[Swiss Cheezhead]

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=207207

 

 

For those who might misinterpret my addition to this thread, I linked to my thread on this subject specifically to indicate it IS useful to know whether a LB plays in the nickel or not.

 

As I mention in my previous thread, many IDP players really exaggerate the importance of the proverbial "3-down linebacker"; however, 3-down LBs average about 1 solo tackle per game on 3rd downs. In the common scoring system used by most of us here, that's 2 points per game and about 30 points over the season.

 

So, all other things equal (which they rarely are), it's easy to argue that Hayes will score about 30 points fewer this year.

 

Of course, Keg could prove that pretty convincingly if he studied all of Hayes' 2006 production on 3rd-and-long.

 

[Sgt. Ryan]

For those who might misinterpret my addition to this thread, I linked to my thread on this subject specifically to indicate it IS useful to know whether a LB plays in the nickel or not.

 

As I mention in my previous thread, many IDP players really exaggerate the importance of the proverbial "3-down linebacker"; however, 3-down LBs average about 1 solo tackle per game on 3rd downs. In the common scoring system used by most of us here, that's 2 points per game and about 30 points over the season.

 

So, all other things equal (which they rarely are), it's easy to argue that Hayes will score about 30 points fewer this year.

 

Of course, Keg could prove that pretty convincingly if he studied all of Hayes' 2006 production on 3rd-and-long.

 

 

Hayes missed 2 games to injury a yr ago, or his stats would be about 28 total pts higher than a yr ago, on average of 13.9 pts per week. . Many dont look at the whole picture, but if he lost 1 solo tackle a game as a result, which I think a reach at best, he would score about the same as a year ago, if all other things are equal. Which in the basic scoring places him at #31 overall LB. If you add those stats in from a yr ago, Hayes comes in at the #17 LB overall, just ahead of Gary Brackett who also missed 2 games to injury, and just behind Aj Hawk.

 

http://football17.myfantasyleague.com/2007...ints&TEAM=*

 

No one has Hayes in their top 10 LBs, but to drop high lower than last yrs stats is a mistake imo, if he stays healthy. In fact, its my opinion, he exceeds last yrs stats with or without this change, if this change is even guaranteed to happen. Which Im skeptical it will, and Im even more skeptcial it means he loses 1 solo tackle per game. Id say all things being considered, its maybe 7-8 solo tackles per season at best, again if this change does take place.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Hayes missed 2 games to injury a yr ago, or his stats would be about 28 total pts higher than a yr ago, on average of 13.9 pts per week. . Many dont look at the whole picture, but if he lost 1 solo tackle a game as a result, which I think a reach at best, he would score about the same as a year ago, if all other things are equal. Which in the basic scoring places him at #31 overall LB. If you add those stats in from a yr ago, Hayes comes in at the #17 LB overall, just ahead of Gary Brackett who also missed 2 games to injury, and just behind Aj Hawk.

 

http://football17.myfantasyleague.com/2007...ints&TEAM=*

 

No one has Hayes in their top 10 LBs, but to drop high lower than last yrs stats is a mistake imo, if he stays healthy. In fact, its my opinion, he exceeds last yrs stats with or without this change, if this change is even guaranteed to happen. Which Im skeptical it will, and Im even more skeptcial it means he loses 1 solo tackle per game. Id say all things being considered, its maybe 7-8 solo tackles per season at best, again if this change does take place.

 

Can't argue with much of that.

 

But I can't argue with Keg posting the information either.

[Sgt. Ryan]

Can't argue with much of that.

 

But I can't argue with Keg posting the information either.

 

 

Its not that Keg posted the info, but by bolding what he did, he made it sound like Hayes stock should drop by this move,otherwise why even mention this, and the article even said Hayes would be removed on 3rd downs. I clearly stated that was false, and that Hayes shouldnt drop, in fact its my opinion, he will improve on last yrs numbers. I wanted the reader to hear devils advocate here, as well as correct the error in the article. Ill just leave this alone from here. Keg can obviously post whatever he wishes, whether its accurate or not, but if I see something inaccurate, just like many of you will do on the main board, Im going to speak up about it.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[Bronco Billy]

[whomper]

I have to admit that I never paid any attention to schemes and formations in all of the years I have played or watched football. I was a defensive end so I was either slanting or containing and never paid any attention to what was going on behind me. I need to start educating myself as I get more involved in IDP leagues. Is 3rd and long the only time a team uses a nickel D ? When does it make more sense for a team to use the Dime defense instead of a nickel D ?

[Swiss Cheezhead]

I have to admit that I never paid any attention to schemes and formations in all of the years I have played or watched football. I was a defensive end so I was either slanting or containing and never paid any attention to what was going on behind me. I need to start educating myself as I get more involved in IDP leagues. Is 3rd and long the only time a team uses a nickel D ? When does it make more sense for a team to use the Dime defense instead of a nickel D ?

 

A dime is usually reserved for times when the offense goes to a 4- or 5-WR set. The nickel is more common -- basically, if it's an obvious passing situation, a team will usually play nickel. It's just the difference of having a CB cover the TE (or slot WR), instead of a LB.

 

If it's not an obvious passing situation, playing nickel doesn't make as much sense. The offense could basically just run the ball to the strong side, and the TE would have a huge blocking advantage (about 60-70 pounds) over the nickel CB.