unions suck

[Skippy]

I RR speaks the truth. I have been an excutive board member and been on a negotiating team three times. Never not one single time do I remember pay raise being at the top of what we were after. (I will give you this though and it is something that I hate) You jump in there and offer a pretty decent raise to the membership, you might be able to slip it in the backside of them. That never has happened on my watch because we are trained by top negotiaters to watch for tatics like that. Jumbie - you speak the truth in that you would only have to get 50% but RR speaks the truth with numbers like 80% to ratify. Our membership trusts the negotiating team and if that team comes back and recomends a no vote, it is going to be a no vote. Your tatics would not work with the trades council in my area. We do our homework.

[rocknrobn26]

I RR speaks the truth. I have been an excutive board member and been on a negotiating team three times. Never not one single time do I remember pay raise being at the top of what we were after. (I will give you this though and it is something that I hate) You jump in there and offer a pretty decent raise to the membership, you might be able to slip it in the backside of them. That never has happened on my watch because we are trained by top negotiaters to watch for tatics like that. Jumbie - you speak the truth in that you would only have to get 50% but RR speaks the truth with numbers like 80% to ratify. Our membership trusts the negotiating team and if that team comes back and recomends a no vote, it is going to be a no vote. Your tatics would not work with the trades council in my area. We do our homework.

 

Well put, Skip.

[joeyc]

 

 

maybe I should reread my post before I make any statements again, huh??

[rocknrobn26]

maybe I should reread my post before I make any statements again, huh??

 

No need for me. It was very clear. But then there are people on this board.........................

[aqualung]

No need for me. It was very clear. But then there are people on this board.........................

 

Calm down bro it's not worth it. This board is white collar and no way will they ever understand the common man.

[rocknrobn26]

Calm down bro it's not worth it. This board is white collar and no way will they ever understand the common man.

 

 

You are correct my friend, but as an ex-teacher, I always feel I need to educate, regardless of where I am or who I am with. My foible, but it's me.

Very much appreciate your comments though, as always.

I hope all is well w/ you and yours, Bro!

[tonorator]

Calm down bro it's not worth it. This board is white collar and no way will they ever understand the common man.

 

that's just a load of crap.

[aqualung]

that's just a load of crap.

 

You sir have no clue.

 

And I am not about to argue with you about it because there is no way you will change you mind. So it's pointless.

Edited October 4, 2007 by aqualung

[tonorator]

You sir have no clue.

 

well, i'd love to be enlightened. that's the beauty of the exchange of ideas.

 

i assure you, however, that someone who's father spent 20 years as an enisted man in the army, served two tours in vietnam and nearly got his ass shot off, who also has a brother that has spent his life as a guard in a maximum security prison and another brother who has bounced from one factory job to the next does indeed have a pretty good understanding of the blue collar man, even if i do sit behind a desk.

 

everyone has the power to switch companies to improve their lot in life, if they are not happy where they are. and in my opinion, this is a much better option vs. doing the union thing and formalizing the dissention between yourself and the management of your company. it is just not worth the headache, especially when there are many good companies out there waiting to reward talented, hard workers.

[Skippy]

You sir have no clue.

 

And I am not about to argue with you about it because there is no way you will change you mind. So it's pointless.

+1

 

When ever I have a white collar guy turn his nose at me I make sure he understands how much he needs me. It doesn't take long for that understanding to kick in. There are very few on this board that has walked a mile in shoes like ours. It is kind of funny to me that I can see their side but it is not very often that they can see ours. Hire union trained labor and pay for it up front but gain the rewards of that labor over and over in the long run. There must be a reason that all the big companies hire out of the union hall and not some guy willing to work at half the rate with a quarter the knowledge.

 

I love to hear how this one or that one grew up with a dad that worked in the mill or a teamster that did this or that. Times are very different today. Unions aren't run by morons. When you have to go to school for four years to be a Steamfitter, Plumber, or an Electrician to be part of a union, you are coming out at the very top of your game. I have yet to meet a single non-union tradesman that compares to the union tradesman in knowledge, code, safety standards, and all around common sense in the job worksite. Not a single one. Yes there sure are some non-union guys that can bust their ass and put out a lot of work. If these guys had a clue how valuable they are… There are guys that own and run big companies that lean on the union brothers every day for this knowledge and the only part of the world that knows it is the part of the world that does it. I am part of that world.

[Skippy]

everyone has the power to switch companies to improve their lot in life, if they are not happy where they are. and in my opinion, this is a much better option vs. doing the union thing and formalizing the dissention between yourself and the management of your company. it is just not worth the headache, especially when there are many good companies out there waiting to reward talented, hard workers.

Wait one minute. Where did I ever suggest that I wanted to switch companies? I made my last switch 19 years ago. I am very proud of where I have made it to. I am very proud of my union coworkers. We have been recognized over and over for outstanding work. We have been given awards from the governor of PA. for our safety standards. We are being studied by other smaller local governments that are also not covered by OSHA to see how it is we do what we do. I teach a class two nights a week to second year fitters that will someday be the future of my trade. Never not one single time did I suggest that I needed to improve my lot in life. A lot of us are proud and happy to be right where we are.

[jaxfactor]

+1

 

When ever I have a white collar guy turn his nose at me I make sure he understands how much he needs me. It doesn't take long for that understanding to kick in. There are very few on this board that has walked a mile in shoes like ours. It is kind of funny to me that I can see their side but it is not very often that they can see ours. Hire union trained labor and pay for it up front but gain the rewards of that labor over and over in the long run. There must be a reason that all the big companies hire out of the union hall and not some guy willing to work at half the rate with a quarter the knowledge.

 

I love to hear how this one or that one grew up with a dad that worked in the mill or a teamster that did this or that. Times are very different today. Unions aren't run by morons. When you have to go to school for four years to be a Steamfitter, Plumber, or an Electrician to be part of a union, you are coming out at the very top of your game. I have yet to meet a single non-union tradesman that compares to the union tradesman in knowledge, code, safety standards, and all around common sense in the job worksite. Not a single one. Yes there sure are some non-union guys that can bust their ass and put out a lot of work. If these guys had a clue how valuable they are… There are guys that own and run big companies that lean on the union brothers every day for this knowledge and the only part of the world that knows it is the part of the world that does it. I am part of that world.

 

So is your union backing Hillary in 2008 like mine is?

 

All in all I liked your words of wisdom Skip!

[tonorator]

Wait one minute. Where did I ever suggest that I wanted to switch companies? I made my last switch 19 years ago. I am very proud of where I have made it to. I am very proud of my union coworkers. We have been recognized over and over for outstanding work. We have been given awards from the governor of PA. for our safety standards. We are being studied by other smaller local governments that are also not covered by OSHA to see how it is we do what we do. I teach a class two nights a week to second year fitters that will someday be the future of my trade. Never not one single time did I suggest that I needed to improve my lot in life. A lot of us are proud and happy to be right where we are.

 

i wasn't referring to you skip.

[Skippy]

So is your union backing Hillary in 2008 like mine is?

 

All in all I liked your words of wisdom Skip!

I am not going to lie. I honestly don't know. I am not the most political on the federal level. I get very involved in the local level but I don't know who they are backing at this point.

 

i wasn't referring to you skip.

I sort of took it like it was a general statement.

[tonorator]

I sort of took it like it was a general statement.

 

it was in response to joeyc who was complaining about his employer.

[Ursa Majoris]

Calm down bro it's not worth it. This board is white collar and no way will they ever understand the common man.

I guess I'm a white collar guy now but it doesn't fit very well. I'm never going to be an executive even though I wield a lot of clout here. I have two aims - do the very best for the company and fight for my staff.

 

I'm with you guys.

[westvirginia]

+1

 

When ever I have a white collar guy turn his nose at me I make sure he understands how much he needs me. It doesn't take long for that understanding to kick in. There are very few on this board that has walked a mile in shoes like ours. It is kind of funny to me that I can see their side but it is not very often that they can see ours. Hire union trained labor and pay for it up front but gain the rewards of that labor over and over in the long run. There must be a reason that all the big companies hire out of the union hall and not some guy willing to work at half the rate with a quarter the knowledge.

 

I love to hear how this one or that one grew up with a dad that worked in the mill or a teamster that did this or that. Times are very different today. Unions aren't run by morons. When you have to go to school for four years to be a Steamfitter, Plumber, or an Electrician to be part of a union, you are coming out at the very top of your game. I have yet to meet a single non-union tradesman that compares to the union tradesman in knowledge, code, safety standards, and all around common sense in the job worksite. Not a single one. Yes there sure are some non-union guys that can bust their ass and put out a lot of work. If these guys had a clue how valuable they are… There are guys that own and run big companies that lean on the union brothers every day for this knowledge and the only part of the world that knows it is the part of the world that does it. I am part of that world.

 

Skip - I'm guessing from your posts you're a member of the Plumbers & Pipefitters. I said at the beginning of this topic that unions like that are a far cry from the others. My father was a UMWA (united mine workers) member for 22 years, and about 12 years ago became a millwright. The two unions are NIGHT AND DAY different. The UMWA, like the teamsters, the autoworkers etc. are about two things: 1) wringing every dime out of the company for the members, and 2) making it impossible for its membership to get fired. Think about it, those members are employees of GM, UPS, Massey Energy, ect., and they have no incentive to ever leave that place. The millwrights, on the other hand, assure the competency of their membership. The union employs the worker. It's like a very specialized temp agency. My father is truly an exceptional man. If it's mechanical or hydraulic, he can build it or fix it. In the UMWA he had to fight crap all the time because certain guys wanted him to work on their stuff, because he was the best. He was the subject of grievance after grievance. In the millwrights, companies can ask for him, and he works all he wants. He's been offered jobs so many times he's lost count.

 

I was a member of the teamsters at UPS for a couple years while in college. It's been a while, but I know a little from which I speak. I loaded outbound trailers at the Doraville hub here outside ATL. I hated every minute of it, and I never could believe I was making $8/hour plus benefits for working somewhere around 20 hours/week at a job that any 19 y/o in decent physical shape could do.

[Jumbie]

You are talking like an ass! If you truly negotiate like that, any bargaining team I have ever been on would nail you to the wall! Your pompous attitude could be seen by a blind man. And your credibility would be naught!

You have no idea what the other side wants. Unless your dealing w/ dolts. In that case you may be successful but then my dog could nego that. Your statements are laughable at best if not.

In the last ten years of my participating on nego teams Salary was #3 at best! :boom: :goodbye:

I never said that is a one for all! I did say it's a majority! There is no contradiction in my comments.

51% is the minimum. I never saw a contract passed by less than 80%! You know why??? We did our job.

I wish I could have sat across from the table w/ you. We would have chewed you up and spit you out before you could have yelled MAMA, with an attitude like that.

You act as if you know ALL about the other side! Believe me, man, you don't. At least w/ the bargaining teams, both sides, that I've been on.

What you say sounds good on a website chat area, but get the facts straight before you speak.

You want to discuss this further, PM me your phone number, and we'll talk. Or do you need an audience to spew your crap?

Your post is a joke!

Why I waste time on these ludicrous posts is beyond me, especially when my FF teams are falling apart like a Hong Kong suit.

PM me or shut up.

 

Save your breath. I've been doing this for over 20 years and no union has "chewed me up." I'm sure you're great at what you do. I don't suck at what I do, either.

[Jumbie]

You are talking like an ass! If you truly negotiate like that, any bargaining team I have ever been on would nail you to the wall! Your pompous attitude could be seen by a blind man. And your credibility would be naught!

You have no idea what the other side wants. Unless your dealing w/ dolts. In that case you may be successful but then my dog could nego that. Your statements are laughable at best if not.

In the last ten years of my participating on nego teams Salary was #3 at best! :boom: :goodbye:

I never said that is a one for all! I did say it's a majority! There is no contradiction in my comments.

51% is the minimum. I never saw a contract passed by less than 80%! You know why??? We did our job.

I wish I could have sat across from the table w/ you. We would have chewed you up and spit you out before you could have yelled MAMA, with an attitude like that.

You act as if you know ALL about the other side! Believe me, man, you don't. At least w/ the bargaining teams, both sides, that I've been on.

What you say sounds good on a website chat area, but get the facts straight before you speak.

You want to discuss this further, PM me your phone number, and we'll talk. Or do you need an audience to spew your crap?

Your post is a joke!

Why I waste time on these ludicrous posts is beyond me, especially when my FF teams are falling apart like a Hong Kong suit.

PM me or shut up.

 

One other thing, Mr. Robin...the wage proposal was just an example. So, when you get all pissy and say that wages never is the most important issue, you once again are missing the point. It was a simple example. The point is that most mgt. side negotiators tailor their proposals towards ratification. We break the bargaining unit down into demographics...i.e., how many will vote for what...and make our offers accordingly.

 

Perhaps you've been played all these years and just didn't get it.

[aqualung]

One other thing, Mr. Robin...the wage proposal was just an example. So, when you get all pissy and say that wages never is the most important issue, you once again are missing the point. It was a simple example. The point is that most mgt. side negotiators tailor their proposals towards ratification. We break the bargaining unit down into demographics...i.e., how many will vote for what...and make our offers accordingly.

 

Perhaps you've been played all these years and just didn't get it.

 

You sir are why unions are needed.

[Skippy]

You sir are why unions are needed.

Very good!

[rocknrobn26]

One other thing, Mr. Robin...the wage proposal was just an example. So, when you get all pissy and say that wages never is the most important issue, you once again are missing the point. It was a simple example. The point is that most mgt. side negotiators tailor their proposals towards ratification. We break the bargaining unit down into demographics...i.e., how many will vote for what...and make our offers accordingly.

 

Perhaps you've been played all these years and just didn't get it.

 

Read Aqua's reply. That's all that needs to said. I am curious as to why you needed to reply to your own reply, but not curious enough to ask. You already proved you don't read well and that you type before your brain kicks in. My previous offer still stands. Take it or leave it MR. Negotiator.

Edited October 5, 2007 by rocknrobn26