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'Bout what you'd expect


westvirginia
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I get so incensed about the gun issue. John Lott has proven empirically that more guns=less crime. Now, on the campus of a liberal "free speech" institution, a student is ordered to undergo a psychiatric evaluation because he stated the obvious: that if students (non-felons, concealed carry permits) were able to carry guns on these campuses this would NOT be happening.

 

C'mon, this is such a blatant "if you disagree you must be crazy" thing, it makes me wonder if skins is running things up there. Whazzup wit' de colleges, yo, wiegie?

 

:D

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First, Page cannot be found.

 

Second, no matter how well intentioned your argument (and I do agree with you) by placing labels on things (e.g. libs) you've immediately weakened your point.

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I get so incensed about the gun issue. John Lott has proven empirically that more guns=less crime. Now, on the campus of a liberal "free speech" institution, a student is ordered to undergo a psychiatric evaluation because he stated the obvious: that if students (non-felons, concealed carry permits) were able to carry guns on these campuses this would NOT be happening.

 

C'mon, this is such a blatant "if you disagree you must be crazy" thing, it makes me wonder if skins is running things up there. Whazzup wit' de colleges, yo, wiegie?

 

:D

 

Not exactly empirical proof. :D

 

I particularly like this quote:

Q: Doesn't Lott implicitly acknowledge that his work is fundamentally flawed because he does not account for other factors which could affect both the crime rate and the decision by state legislators to change carry laws?

 

A: Yes. On page 153 of More Guns, Less Crime, Lott writes that "The more serious possibility is that some other factor may have caused both the reduction in crime rates and the passage of the law to occur at the same time." And he goes on to write that "For a critic to attack the paper, the correct approach would have been to state what variables were not included in the analysis." Well, this has been done.

 

Critics of Lott's study have identified a number of factors that affect crime rates, but which Lott failed to address in his research. Examples include changes in how the police go about their business (e.g., implementation of community policing, and crime-mapping techniques used by some police departments), changes in poverty levels, gang activity, maturation of the drug market, and other changes in gun laws.

 

Most important, in a paper published in the Journal of Legal Studies (January 1998), Dan Black and Daniel Nagin used a well known, formal statistical test that proved that Lott failed to include a number of important variables in his study. On the basis of this and other findings, Drs. Black and Nagin, along with Professor Jens Ludwig, concluded that "there is absolutely no credible evidence to support the idea that permissive concealed-carry laws reduce violent crime," and that "it would be a mistake to formulate policy based on the findings from Dr. Lott's study."

 

To this day, John Lott has failed to provide any statistical evidence of his own that counters Black and Nagin's finding that Lott's conclusions are inappropriately attributed to changes in concealed carry laws. Until Lott can do this, it is inappropriate for him to continue to claim that allowing more people to carry concealed handguns causes a drop in violent crime.

Edited by cre8tiff
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What we really need is concealed automatic machine gune laws. Now that would be some serious Sega!.

 

Please find me a single instance where a legally owned machine gun has been used in a crime since the 1934 law was passed...

 

Oh, and cre8tiff, please explain to me why DC is the murder capital of the nation, when guns are virtually banned there? And go ahead, give me the crap about VA and WV gun laws, please...

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No guns means no shootings

No shootings means less crime

Less crime means better world

 

Plus deer would be happier and would stop having to learn to duck

 

Take the guns away from all the criminals, and give me free meat whenever I want it, and you can have my guns, until then you better stay off my property in the middle of the night, or I might accidentally ventilate you.

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Take the guns away from all the criminals, and give me free meat whenever I want it, and you can have my guns, until then you better stay off my property in the middle of the night, or I might accidentally ventilate you.

 

No worries , my days of prowling and breaking into homes are over

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Take the guns away from all the criminals

 

sure... and make everyone else PROVE that they are responsible enough to own a gun. make sure they are sane and have never been convicted of a violent crime. go after people who do not follow the laws currently on the books and make people wait a couple weeks... if you cannot wait a couple weeks - your need for a gun might be a little suspect

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No guns means no shootings

No shootings means less crime

Less crime means better world

 

Plus deer would be happier and would stop having to learn to duck

 

I defy you to prove that no shootings means less crime. It only means that there would be different crime.

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I defy you to prove that no shootings means less crime. It only means that there would be different crime.

 

Can't prove it with empirical data or studies ( probably because there may be none since guns do exist )

 

But I would suspect if you take the total crimes ( all types ) and subtract the number of crimes based on guns ( from selling illegally , to trafficking , to attempted murder , to felony with a weapon , to murder ( murders were guns were used ) ) there is a very good chance the total crimes decreases by a great deal , no ??

 

This does not mean other crimes would not go up but I don't believe and I think anyone can prove the other crimes would go up to the level which guns played a part in

 

in all honesty , I understand the need for guns and am not some anti gun lobbyist or anti gun nut , but if I am thinking aloud I do believe crime goes down without them

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lott is a toad...

...this, coming from a guy who is likely chilling on his porch - balancing a keyboard on his lap - typing with one finger - and picking his teeth with the sight of the gun, while waiting for some poor varmit to peak out his head.

 

need I mention the two canned beer cap?

 

 

gotta love complexity

:D

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Please find me a single instance where a legally owned machine gun has been used in a crime since the 1934 law was passed...

 

Oh, and cre8tiff, please explain to me why DC is the murder capital of the nation, when guns are virtually banned there? And go ahead, give me the crap about VA and WV gun laws, please...

 

Try reading the friggin link, hillbilly.

 

In the 29 states that have lax CCW laws (where law enforcement must issue CCW licenses to almost all applicants), the crime rate fell 2.1%, from 5397.0 to 5285.1 crimes per 100,000 population from 1996 to 1997. During the same time period, in the 21 states and the District of Columbia with strict carry laws or which don't allow the carrying of concealed weapons at all, the crime rate fell 4.4%, from 4810.5 to 4599.9 crimes per 100,000 population. The decline in the crime rate of strict licensing and no-carry states was 2.1 times that of states with lax CCW systems, indicating that there are more effective ways to fight crime than to encourage more people to carry guns.

 

Keep in mind this is the same time period Lott tries to cover in his "empirical" research.

Edited by cre8tiff
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