TimC

NOVA: Intelligent Design on Trial

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Unless its hosted by Elmo I doubt I'll get the chance to see it. My 3 year old controls our viewing habits with an iron will.

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Saw it. It's pretty good.

 

If you subscribe to the whole "adam and eve rode dinosaurs to church on sunday" view of evolution (creation, whatever), you'll prolly wanna skip it, your side loses.

 

Elmo does an excellent job presenting both sides, btw

Edited by Ill Nuts

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Saw it. It's pretty good.

 

If you subscribe to the whole "adam and eve rode dinosaurs to church on sunday" view of evolution (creation, whatever), you'll prolly wanna skip it, your side loses.

 

Elmo does an excellent job presenting both sides, btw

 

What kind of lame nerd watches PBS? Why wouldn't you just watch something cool on cable or your DVR?

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evolution ? evolution is more people believing in the Lord , Jesus Christ , thats evolution :D

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evolution ? evolution is more people believing in the Lord , Jesus Christ , thats evolution :D

I don't see how anyone could read the books of Isaiah or Daniel, look at the times they were written and see what they predicted and how every part of their prophecies were fulfilled and think it was jibberish. These prophets foretold the coming of Christ 700 and 600 years before He came and described to a T how He would come, how He would be treated and how He would die. Daniel even foretold the rise and fall of the Babylonian, Media-Persian, Greek and Roman empires. Even the critics of Daniel and Isaiah that try to put an earlier date on their prophecies don't deny them getting the prophecy of Christ right. The timelines of when these books were written is confirmed by the Dead Sea Scrolls (Isa. 700-680 B.C.) (Daniel 605-535 B.C.). Jesus Christ Himself supported the creationist theory. He personally said that Adam and Eve were created by God (Matt. 19:4). To believe in anything other than the creationist theory is to completely didmiss the entire Old Testament. Virtually everything major the critics deny concerning the Old Testament Jesus confirmed to be true. The dilemma is either to accept the authenticity and authority of the Old Testament or to impugn the integrity of Christ. In plain English either the Old Testament is the Word of God or Christ is not the Son of God. The non-believers living during Jesus' time never denied that He did the things that His followers claimed He did or that they themselves saw Him do, they simply dismissed it as an evil spirit doing good deeds (if that makes sense). There are over 25,000 writings of Christ written within 50 years of His death that have been preserved. These writings have a 99% correlation rate. Believers that saw first hand what He did were more willing to be tortured and murdered then they were to denounce Him. He sent shockwaves during His physical time on Earth and things have never been the same since. People started going to Church on Sunday instead of Saturday in defience of Jewish Law immediately after Christ's resurrection. These were people that saw first hand what He did and they believed He was the Savior. If you feel like the Old Testament and it's creationist views are wrong and you don't believe Christ is the Son of God then I hope you don't consider yourself to be a Christian. That would obviously be silly. People that dismiss the Bible tend to be folks that have never read it.

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Isaiah 53

1 Who has believed our message

and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

 

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,

and like a root out of dry ground.

He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,

nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

 

3 He was despised and rejected by men,

a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.

Like one from whom men hide their faces

he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

 

4 Surely he took up our infirmities

and carried our sorrows,

yet we considered him stricken by God,

smitten by him, and afflicted.

 

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,

he was crushed for our iniquities;

the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,

and by his wounds we are healed.

 

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,

each of us has turned to his own way;

and the LORD has laid on him

the iniquity of us all.

 

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,

yet he did not open his mouth;

he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,

and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,

so he did not open his mouth.

 

8 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.

And who can speak of his descendants?

For he was cut off from the land of the living;

for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

 

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,

and with the rich in his death,

though he had done no violence,

nor was any deceit in his mouth.

 

10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,

and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,

he will see his offspring and prolong his days,

and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

 

11 After the suffering of his soul,

he will see the light of life [d] and be satisfied [e] ;

by his knowledge [f] my righteous servant will justify many,

and he will bear their iniquities.

 

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, [g]

and he will divide the spoils with the strong, [h]

because he poured out his life unto death,

and was numbered with the transgressors.

For he bore the sin of many,

and made intercession for the transgressors.

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Viewing evolution as a threat to religion is a choice.

 

:D My first high school biology teacher was a Catholic Priest. He didn't feel threatened by Darwin, and I guarantee he read the bible a few times.... He also hand-picked our biology textbook. First week, chapter 1: Voyage of the Beagle. Creationism was never mentioned in that class.

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Viewing evolution as a threat to religion is a choice.

 

:D My first high school biology teacher was a Catholic Priest. He didn't feel threatened by Darwin, and I guarantee he read the bible a few times.... He also hand-picked our biology textbook. First week, chapter 1: Voyage of the Beagle. Creationism was never mentioned in that class.

I'm not threatened by evolution.

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I'm not threatened by evolution.

 

Sum up your point concisely then. I could barely skim the unformatted blob of biblical blathering in your first post, but it sure sounded like you were saying that if you believed in evolution, you were going to hell. Sounds like a threat to me.

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Sum up your point concisely then. I could barely skim the unformatted blob of biblical blathering in your first post, but it sure sounded like you were saying that if you believed in evolution, you were going to hell. Sounds like a threat to me.

Nope, I was saying if you don't believe the Old Testament is the Word of God then you probably don't believe that Christ was the Son of God. If that's the case you're not a Christian. What God does with you is up to Him.

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Nope, I was saying if you don't believe the Old Testament is the Word of God then you probably don't believe that Christ was the Son of God. If that's the case you're not a Christian. What God does with you is up to Him.

 

I am with you ... :D

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Nope, I was saying if you don't believe the Old Testament is the Word of God then you probably don't believe that Christ was the Son of God. If that's the case you're not a Christian. What God does with you is up to Him.

 

:D

 

This is the part that always gets me in trouble. If I do not believe in a Supreme Being, then I am going to hell. Unfortunately, if the SB doesn't exist, then neither does hell.

 

No worries mate! :D

Edited by jetsfan

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:D

 

This is the part that always gets me in trouble. If I do not believe in a Supreme Being, then I am going to hell. Unfortunately, if the SB doesn't exist, then neither does hell.

 

No worries mate! :cheers:

 

 

But the Super Bowl does exist :D

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Nope, I was saying if you don't believe the Old Testament is the Word of God then you probably don't believe that Christ was the Son of God. If that's the case you're not a Christian. What God does with you is up to Him.

 

And this point relates to evolution in what way? :D

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And this point relates to evolution in what way? :D

 

Pray and it will come to you :D

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Nope, I was saying if you don't believe the Old Testament is the Word of God then you probably don't believe that Christ was the Son of God. If that's the case you're not a Christian. What God does with you is up to Him.

 

When did you turn into a bible thumper?

 

The thing that is missed by fundamentalists and born agains is that the bible is truth, but not necessarilly literal truth.... it is symbolic truth. It is still the word of God, but often spoken in parables, which are symbolic truths, not literal ones. Not saying that every event depicted in the old testament (or the new) isn't rooted in some literal thruths, but many are not. You should remove the beam from your eye before attempting to remove a splinter from another's.... but condemnation and judgement, while God says is his, is sooooo often dealt out by the high riding bible beating so called conservative christian right so as to make them the object of their own faulted, negative judgemental process as defined by their own guidelines. Hypocracy at it's uttermost epiphony.

 

This reminds me of the idiot christian fundamentalists that blame Jews for the crucifixtion of Christ. The Jews are God's chosen people to bear that completely ignorant accusation.... The Jews and Romans didn't kill Christ.... the people of the world did. Through sinfullness. If Christ were not put to death, then christianity would have no saviour. It was Christ's (and God's) sacrafice that allows the forgiveness of sins so that man can enter His kingdom. Christians OWE those who put Christ to death for their chance at eternal life. Christ himself KNEW that unless he were sacraficed there would not be forgiveness of sins. He willingly went to his death to save man, because man, all men, sin. But, most christian fundamentalists like this, who try to preach creationism or intelligent design are delusional as much those same bible beatin people who hate Jews because they put their saviour on a cross. Unless Christ dies, there can be no christians, or salvation in christian theology.

 

The truths of christianity are pretty basic, and the rest is detail. Treat others as you would yourself. Do not judge others. Be honest and truthful. Honor elders and most of all God himself. Be merciful, understanding and forgiving. Be generous and have faith in your God. Even Christ knew when to stay out of politics... give to ceasar what is ceasar's.... teaching intelligent desing in public schools is a black and white teaching of right wing christianity in as blatant a form as there could possibly be, but much better articulated by the republican (and Christian) judge that delivered that same ruling in the Dover school district case. Ya wanna teach religion? That is up to the parents and their choice of schools for their children, where no such public seperate church and state laws apply. I am a christian, but in no way do I think that teaching creationism (now named intelligent design for PC purposes only) or ANY singularly religiously based one God theory is .... well.... let me be blunt.

 

This is the sort of thinking that led an intelligent race of Germanic people into being nazis. This is the sort of thinking that that is nurtured by muslim fundamnetalists. "We're fightin fer God, dammit!" The belief that the Japanese were being led by a "god'.... the list goes on and on of what would be otherwise normal people to go off and dehumanize others who are different.

 

You want to be a good christian? Raise yer kids by example. They don't need to be taught in public schools to learn what is ethical, moral or righteous. And fer cryin out loud, don't judge people you don't agree with and don't attck them.... if you are truely a christian... pray for them, fogive others, and be compassionate. Discussion is fine, but to suggest what God might do with those you don't agree with us as far away from christian theology as one can get. Hypocrisy at it's pinnacle of brightness.

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And fer cryin out loud, don't judge people you don't agree with and don't attck them.... if you are truely a christian... pray for them, fogive others, and be compassionate. Discussion is fine, but to suggest what God might do with those you don't agree with us as far away from christian theology as one can get. Hypocrisy at it's pinnacle of brightness.

 

See...from the post you quoted, I didn't notice JJ condemn anyone, or say what God would do.

 

He just stated an opinion on the probability that if you don;t believe one thing, you don't believe another thing that is the only thing you truly need to believe to be a Christian, and that what would happen otherwise was up to God. One is an assumption at best, and the other is whole truth to those that believe.

 

Christian is a very literal word. Christianity is a religion that is supposed to be made up of Christians, but the requirements for being a Christian are not necessarily in line with the modern day interpretation of Christianity.

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See...from the post you quoted, I didn't notice JJ condemn anyone, or say what God would do.

 

I'm not sure what JJ was doing, but I took it as off-target ideological babbling. I'm also skeptical. If JJ made a life change that makes him happier than all the power to him. But I'm skeptical seeing someone who was consistently posting pr0n and drug stuff a year ago; currently taking it upon himself to preach fire and brimstone. :D

 

I don't find it surprising by any means. I've just seen it before and come back full circle a couple times.

Edited by bushwacked

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When did you turn into a bible thumper?

 

The thing that is missed by fundamentalists and born agains is that the bible is truth, but not necessarilly literal truth.... it is symbolic truth. It is still the word of God, but often spoken in parables, which are symbolic truths, not literal ones. Not saying that every event depicted in the old testament (or the new) isn't rooted in some literal thruths, but many are not. You should remove the beam from your eye before attempting to remove a splinter from another's.... but condemnation and judgement, while God says is his, is sooooo often dealt out by the high riding bible beating so called conservative christian right so as to make them the object of their own faulted, negative judgemental process as defined by their own guidelines. Hypocracy at it's uttermost epiphony.

 

This reminds me of the idiot christian fundamentalists that blame Jews for the crucifixtion of Christ. The Jews are God's chosen people to bear that completely ignorant accusation.... The Jews and Romans didn't kill Christ.... the people of the world did. Through sinfullness. If Christ were not put to death, then christianity would have no saviour. It was Christ's (and God's) sacrafice that allows the forgiveness of sins so that man can enter His kingdom. Christians OWE those who put Christ to death for their chance at eternal life. Christ himself KNEW that unless he were sacraficed there would not be forgiveness of sins. He willingly went to his death to save man, because man, all men, sin. But, most christian fundamentalists like this, who try to preach creationism or intelligent design are delusional as much those same bible beatin people who hate Jews because they put their saviour on a cross. Unless Christ dies, there can be no christians, or salvation in christian theology.

 

The truths of christianity are pretty basic, and the rest is detail. Treat others as you would yourself. Do not judge others. Be honest and truthful. Honor elders and most of all God himself. Be merciful, understanding and forgiving. Be generous and have faith in your God. Even Christ knew when to stay out of politics... give to ceasar what is ceasar's.... teaching intelligent desing in public schools is a black and white teaching of right wing christianity in as blatant a form as there could possibly be, but much better articulated by the republican (and Christian) judge that delivered that same ruling in the Dover school district case. Ya wanna teach religion? That is up to the parents and their choice of schools for their children, where no such public seperate church and state laws apply. I am a christian, but in no way do I think that teaching creationism (now named intelligent design for PC purposes only) or ANY singularly religiously based one God theory is .... well.... let me be blunt.

 

This is the sort of thinking that led an intelligent race of Germanic people into being nazis. This is the sort of thinking that that is nurtured by muslim fundamnetalists. "We're fightin fer God, dammit!" The belief that the Japanese were being led by a "god'.... the list goes on and on of what would be otherwise normal people to go off and dehumanize others who are different.

 

You want to be a good christian? Raise yer kids by example. They don't need to be taught in public schools to learn what is ethical, moral or righteous. And fer cryin out loud, don't judge people you don't agree with and don't attck them.... if you are truely a christian... pray for them, fogive others, and be compassionate. Discussion is fine, but to suggest what God might do with those you don't agree with us as far away from christian theology as one can get. Hypocrisy at it's pinnacle of brightness.

You obviously weren't listening. We're talking about Genesis right now and as I recall there aren't any parabell's in Genesis. Jesus said that God created Adam and Eve. Jesus obviously reaffirmed the creationist view. Jesus is the Son of God. He is God's submissive equal. The Old Testament teaches creationism. The Old Testament is the Word of God. To doubt the Old Testament is doubting that it is the Word of God and basically calling into question Jesus' credibility for saying God created Adam & Eve. If you doubt that then you should probably doubt that He was the Son of God. I'm not passing judgement on anyone in this thread and I welcome you to point out where I did. Take care friend.

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See...from the post you quoted, I didn't notice JJ condemn anyone, or say what God would do.

 

He just stated an opinion on the probability that if you don;t believe one thing, you don't believe another thing that is the only thing you truly need to believe to be a Christian, and that what would happen otherwise was up to God. One is an assumption at best, and the other is whole truth to those that believe.

 

Christian is a very literal word. Christianity is a religion that is supposed to be made up of Christians, but the requirements for being a Christian are not necessarily in line with the modern day interpretation of Christianity.

I actually don't prefer the term Christian. It was first used as a sarcastic attack against Christ's disciples (Acts 11:26). Every person that has ever been baptized as a baby or goes to church every so often considers themselves to be a Christian. I'm a follower of Jesus and I think that more accurately describes what a Christian should be. I didn't read your post until after I had posted my response to Rovers. It's good to see someone's reading what I'm writing and comprehending it before responding.

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You obviously weren't listening. We're talking about Genesis right now and as I recall there aren't any parabell's in Genesis. Jesus said that God created Adam and Eve. Jesus obviously reaffirmed the creationist view. Jesus is the Son of God. He is God's submissive equal. The Old Testament teaches creationism. The Old Testament is the Word of God. To doubt the Old Testament is doubting that it is the Word of God and basically calling into question Jesus' credibility for saying God created Adam & Eve. If you doubt that then you should probably doubt that He was the Son of God. I'm not passing judgement on anyone in this thread and I welcome you to point out where I did. Take care friend.

Jesus might well have said all of these things but that would be because he knew no better. He did live two thousand years ago so we probably should cut him some slack. Ignorance abounded then and still does today.

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Jesus might well have said all of these things but that would be because he knew no better. He did live two thousand years ago so we probably should cut him some slack. Ignorance abounded then and still does today.

Are you telling me that Christ didn't know any better. Are you serious right now or was that a joke? The Bible states that Jesus was the Creator of the world with the Father and Holy Spirit (John 1:3; Col. 1:16). Would'nt the Son of God and Creator of the world know how Adam and Eve were created?

 

I will be in church tomorrow morning and playing a tennis match in the early afternoon. I'm catching a flight to Charlotte and then Akron tomorrow night. I won't be back home until midnight on Monday. Forgive me for not responding to you alls posts until Tuesday.

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I'm not sure what JJ was doing, but I took it as off-target ideological babbling. I'm also skeptical. If JJ made a life change that makes him happier than all the power to him. But I'm skeptical seeing someone who was consistently posting pr0n and drug stuff a year ago; currently taking it upon himself to preach fire and brimstone. :D

 

I don't find it surprising by any means. I've just seen it before and come back full circle a couple times.

I was saved this summer and no longer drink or engage in any other questionable activity. I stopped coming around here about the same time come to think about it.

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