TimC

NOVA: Intelligent Design on Trial

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I was saved this summer and no longer drink or engage in any other questionable activity. I stopped coming around here about the same time come to think about it.

 

I respect that. I just don't see the value of regurgitating bible verses that are seemingly off topic. :D

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When did you turn into a bible thumper?

 

The thing that is missed by fundamentalists and born agains is that the bible is truth, but not necessarilly literal truth.... it is symbolic truth. It is still the word of God, but often spoken in parables, which are symbolic truths, not literal ones. Not saying that every event depicted in the old testament (or the new) isn't rooted in some literal thruths, but many are not. You should remove the beam from your eye before attempting to remove a splinter from another's.... but condemnation and judgement, while God says is his, is sooooo often dealt out by the high riding bible beating so called conservative christian right so as to make them the object of their own faulted, negative judgemental process as defined by their own guidelines. Hypocracy at it's uttermost epiphony.

 

This reminds me of the idiot christian fundamentalists that blame Jews for the crucifixtion of Christ. The Jews are God's chosen people to bear that completely ignorant accusation.... The Jews and Romans didn't kill Christ.... the people of the world did. Through sinfullness. If Christ were not put to death, then christianity would have no saviour. It was Christ's (and God's) sacrafice that allows the forgiveness of sins so that man can enter His kingdom. Christians OWE those who put Christ to death for their chance at eternal life. Christ himself KNEW that unless he were sacraficed there would not be forgiveness of sins. He willingly went to his death to save man, because man, all men, sin. But, most christian fundamentalists like this, who try to preach creationism or intelligent design are delusional as much those same bible beatin people who hate Jews because they put their saviour on a cross. Unless Christ dies, there can be no christians, or salvation in christian theology.

 

The truths of christianity are pretty basic, and the rest is detail. Treat others as you would yourself. Do not judge others. Be honest and truthful. Honor elders and most of all God himself. Be merciful, understanding and forgiving. Be generous and have faith in your God. Even Christ knew when to stay out of politics... give to ceasar what is ceasar's.... teaching intelligent desing in public schools is a black and white teaching of right wing christianity in as blatant a form as there could possibly be, but much better articulated by the republican (and Christian) judge that delivered that same ruling in the Dover school district case. Ya wanna teach religion? That is up to the parents and their choice of schools for their children, where no such public seperate church and state laws apply. I am a christian, but in no way do I think that teaching creationism (now named intelligent design for PC purposes only) or ANY singularly religiously based one God theory is .... well.... let me be blunt.

 

This is the sort of thinking that led an intelligent race of Germanic people into being nazis. This is the sort of thinking that that is nurtured by muslim fundamnetalists. "We're fightin fer God, dammit!" The belief that the Japanese were being led by a "god'.... the list goes on and on of what would be otherwise normal people to go off and dehumanize others who are different.

 

You want to be a good christian? Raise yer kids by example. They don't need to be taught in public schools to learn what is ethical, moral or righteous. And fer cryin out loud, don't judge people you don't agree with and don't attck them.... if you are truely a christian... pray for them, fogive others, and be compassionate. Discussion is fine, but to suggest what God might do with those you don't agree with us as far away from christian theology as one can get. Hypocrisy at it's pinnacle of brightness.

 

Outstanding post. Extremely well said Rovers. :D

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I actually don't prefer the term Christian. It was first used as a sarcastic attack against Christ's disciples (Acts 11:26). Every person that has ever been baptized as a baby or goes to church every so often considers themselves to be a Christian. I'm a follower of Jesus and I think that more accurately describes what a Christian should be. I didn't read your post until after I had posted my response to Rovers. It's good to see someone's reading what I'm writing and comprehending it before responding.

 

 

Regardless of this conversation, good for you JJ. I hope that your life change is great!

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I respect that. I just don't see the value of regurgitating bible verses that are seemingly off topic. :D

I don't see how they are.

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Regardless of this conversation, good for you JJ. I hope that your life change is great!

Thank you and it has been.

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Are you telling me that Christ didn't know any better. Are you serious right now or was that a joke? The Bible states that Jesus was the Creator of the world with the Father and Holy Spirit (John 1:3; Col. 1:16). Would'nt the Son of God and Creator of the world know how Adam and Eve were created?

Oh dear. I didn't actually know that Jesus was "the creator of the world" - I thought the Bible said that was God, keeping busy for a week (with Sunday off).

 

Whatever, I posit that Jesus was another in a long line of prophets, all of whom were men, none of whom were the sons of any god. While I think he had a pretty darn good attitude that we would all do very well to follow, I don't think his archaeological and scientific expertise was up to much. Two millenia later, it seems evident to me that the whole Adam and Eve thing is simply the product of ancient people's superstition and lack of knowledge from which to draw.

 

It is very sad that at this point in human development, there are vast numbers of people who can actually convince themselves that the Bible is literal truth when it is crystal clear that it's very start point (the Garden of Eden) is nonsense other than as an analogy drawn by the emergence among primitive men of a first belief in the supernatural. Where the Garden of Eden comes in is as an analogy for innocence prior to guilt, not as a literal sylvan glade where people and dinosaurs frolicked together.

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religion was invented in order to explain the unexplainable(lightening, locuts, plagues). it was also a device to give hopeless people hope. but today, we have science. and all evidence points to evolution. ive been thru 16ys of catholic education. i'm not convinced there is a god. i hope there is. but truly skeptical.

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Christianity can thank Emperor Constantine for its spread. Until then, it was known only as another eastern cult.

 

:stirringpot:

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Christianity can thank Emperor Constantine for its spread. Until then, it was known only as another eastern cult.

 

:stirringpot:

:D And now it's a prominent Western cult! :D

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:wacko: And now it's a prominent Western cult! :D

You know Chavez...its people like you...aww heck...never mind.

 

 

:D

 

 

 

:D

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Oh dear. I didn't actually know that Jesus was "the creator of the world" - I thought the Bible said that was God, keeping busy for a week (with Sunday off).

Actually He took Saturday off. Saturday means "to rest". Christians started taking Sunday off instead of Saturday because Christ was raised from the dead on Sunday. I take it you're not a beliver.

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I was saved this summer and no longer drink or engage in any other questionable activity. I stopped coming around here about the same time come to think about it.

Drinking is a questionable activity? :D

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Drinking is a questionable activity? :D

Only if you think that when the Bible said that Jesus turned water into wine it really meant turned water into grape juice.

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Actually He took Saturday off. Saturday means "to rest". Christians started taking Sunday off instead of Saturday because Christ was raised from the dead on Sunday. I take it you're not a beliver.

Of course it does.

 

It was named no later than the second century for the planet (Saturn), which controlled the first hour of that day according to Vettius Valens. The planet was named for the Roman god of agriculture Saturn. It has been called dies Saturni ("Saturn's Day"), through which form it entered into Old English as Sæternesdæg and gradually evolved into the word "Saturday".

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Saved from what?

Booze and women, apparently.

 

I for one am always willing to dive on those grenades so that those with me can escape unharmed. I am a great man.

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Actually He took Saturday off. Saturday means "to rest".

I think this one simple statement utterly destroys your credibility. You have obviously been to brainwashing camp if you've picked up this little nugget there. All the days are named after pagan gods:

 

Monday - Mani

Tuesday - Tyr

Wednesday - Woden

Thursday - Thor

Friday - Freya

Saturday - Saturn

Sunday - Sunne

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I don't see how they are.

 

It´s a thread about evolution, and you came in posting bible verses and saying the bible was accurate.

 

Either you´re implying that you believe in literal biblical creationism, or you are blathering off-topic.

 

You might be able to convert some people if you try to make a good argument instead of smugly quoting verses. :D

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I think this one simple statement utterly destroys your credibility. You have obviously been to brainwashing camp if you've picked up this little nugget there. All the days are named after pagan gods:

 

Monday - Mani

Tuesday - Tyr

Wednesday - Woden

Thursday - Thor

Friday - Freya

Saturday - Saturn

Sunday - Sunne

It´s a thread about evolution, and you came in posting bible verses and saying the bible was accurate.

 

Either you´re implying that you believe in literal biblical creationism, or you are blathering off-topic.

 

You might be able to convert some people if you try to make a good argument instead of smugly quoting verses. :D

 

Well, JJ was never known for his debating prowess...

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Well, JJ was never known for his debating prowess...

Or his critical faculties, it seems. :D

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and all evidence points to evolution

 

this is really not true. the scientific process can only be executed against evolution in very micro-sized bites (a point reinforced by the experts in the trial). we don't live long enough to truly observe it to verify that it happened and therefore have any hard evidence - it is big time circumstantial. when trying to prove it on a macro level (cells to plants, plants to fish, fish to animals, animals to humans), evolutionists cling to a surprisingly small collection of fossils and they make amazing claims from such a small set.

 

just last week a story came out about the indonesian tree man, who was infected as a result of a cut and started growning tree limbs and roots from his arms and legs. just imagine if this happened a few thousand years ago and we were digging up the fossils today ... definitive proof! the evolutionists are clinging to as much faith as the creationists, imo. the video tim shared showed one single flat head fossil and all of a sudden we had the major link in evolution solved! hogwash.

 

even though i do believe in creationism, this is not an argument for that. it seems as if most try to choose between one or the other and those that do not believe in creationism lean on evolution even heavier. if you don't believe in God, or a god, that does not give any validity to the theory of evolution. you still have to do your due diligence on it and even before i was a believer, i could never make evolution make any sense and continued to find hugh gaps in what was proposed.

 

and atomic, you can get by the whole "it's not fair that those who do not believe in God go to hell and that's not fair" concept. i brought that one up for many years as reinforcing my athiest/agnostic view. i do believe now that the choice to be saved is not revoked upon death, but actually extends into the afterlife. i credit c.s. lewis for opening my eyes to a whole other paradigm here that helps me tie some things together in a much better way. still nowhere from having all my answers, but that's part of being human ...

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Isn't it wonderful that evolution is a testable scientific theory?

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just last week a story came out about the indonesian tree man, who was infected as a result of a cut and started growning tree limbs and roots from his arms and legs. just imagine if this happened a few thousand years ago and we were digging up the fossils today ... definitive proof! the evolutionists are clinging to as much faith as the creationists, imo. the video tim shared showed one single flat head fossil and all of a sudden we had the major link in evolution solved! hogwash.

 

Did you even read the story? Those "roots" are just Warts Gone Wild (great video, BTW) due to an immune system malfunction. They know what caused the condition and, according to the article, with treatment, most of that nastiness will be cleared up in 6-8 months. Those warts wouldnt have survived as part of fossil evidence due to it being soft tissue. He is not like the elephant man, his bones are fine.

 

How in the world can anyone believe that 6.5 billion people are decended from just 2 people? And all theses people came about in, what, 6000 years? I think simple mathematics could disprove that. And what about the genetic diversity issues involved in breeding that entire populace within one bloodline. Shlt, a dog breeded will tell you that wont work.

 

Was the world that bad to you that you need to shrink back into some story. I love reading as much as anyone but when I put the book down the story ends. Keep fooling yourselves but if I catch you trying to drill that nonsense into my childerns heads you will regret it.

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Evolution and creationism are not mutually exclusive.

 

If you want to believe God made all living things, then do so.

 

He is using evolution as his tool to work.

 

Problem solved.

Edited by cre8tiff

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the scientific process can only be executed against evolution in very micro-sized bites (a point reinforced by the experts in the trial).

 

Who's experts? The defense? You'd have to link to that.

 

we don't live long enough to truly observe it to verify that it happened and therefore have any hard evidence - it is big time circumstantial.

 

No, we do observe it in life with shorter life cycles. You just don't think that counts. It does. 2+2=4, therefore 2000+2000=4000. I find it bizarre that you seem to draw the line for proving evolution juuust beyond the human lifespan. Ooooooohh... so close, but it's not proof to me. :D

 

and atomic, you can get by the whole "it's not fair that those who do not believe in God go to hell and that's not fair" concept.

 

This is going to be a difficult concept for you to understand, but I do not fear hell or desire heaven... because according to my deeply held beliefs, they do not exist. So... thanks anyway. :D

 

I brought up hell because JJ implied that believing in evolution would send you to hell and then said he wasn't threatened by evolution. If you believe in hell, and you believe that thinking a certain way will send you there... then I'd say you're threatened by it.

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