Classy

[keggerz]

Winning once can't be compared to winning 3 out of 4, probably soon to be 4 out of 5, and possibly having the first 16-0 team in NFL History. I have no dislike towards the Colts. But they've won one. Not to mention that Dungy's a helluva lot easier to like than Belichick.

and Vermiel is a very likable guy too

[The Wolf]

Good post. This is the quote that stood out for me.

 

"Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

 

I really think that many of the posters may not have played competitive sports, or if they did are not thinking back to their experiences. The Pats need to play the game mentally and physically to prepare for when they are in a competitive game.

 

Agree 100%. I hate losing in anything...absolutely hate it. I'll throw my opponent an anchor when they are drowning...not a life preserver. And I am not even a good athlete! How does everyone think a professional athlete handles competition?? These are probably the most intense, competitive people out there. Sometimes, it is not just about the money. Now tell that athlete that they have to come out of the game or that they have to hand the ball off all the time because they are doing their jobs that much better than their opponent. Think they'll say, "Yeah coach, it is the sportsmanlike thing to do..."

 

[Bill Swerski]

How long will it take the rest of the country to sit back and admire what the Pats are doing this season? Come on people what you're witnessing is history. If everything goes according to the plan (Brady inj) they will go down as the greatest team in the History of the NFL.

 

I admire their high level of execution. They're the best team that I've ever seen... and will quite possibly go down as the best ever.

 

That said, I just can't bring myself to respect a coach who consistently decides to go for it on 4th down in the red zone with a four-, five-, or six-TD lead in the second half. Especially when the opponent sucks (Bills, Redskins, etc.), has been dominated for the entire game, and literally has no chance of coming back. I thought that winning was the only thing that mattered. What Belichick is doing is nothing short of stat-padding. IMO, that's not the way that the game should be played and I refuse to respect that style of play.

 

And I honestly don't really have a problem with anything else. If they throw the ball much better than they run it, I have no problem with them doing that in the fourth quarter. I have no problem with their starters being out there early in the 4th. And since the players are just doing what they're told, I have no beef with them, either.

Edited November 19, 2007 by Bill Swerski

[goose228]

darn tuck rule...

[goose228]

Honestly though...is anyone thinking that BB will be a little more cautious with how long he leaves in Brady against the likes of the Ravens or Steelers?? (assuming they are up by 4 TD's of course) Im thinking he may pull back the reins a little ........or maybe not...

Edited November 19, 2007 by goose228

[whomper]

I think this team is ridiculously good and will most likely finish the regular season undefeated..I think the Colts outplayed them while the Colts werent at full strength so I am not ready to declare the Pats the AFC champs yet. I respect their abilities big time..They are lethal . But I really think a healthy Colt team can take them..As far as the running up the score goes I guess I dont have a problem with it still..I remember many dominant teams from all the years of watching football and dont remember Landry, Knoll, Walsh etc doing it like we are seeing this year but these are pro athletes and the Pats are within their rights to do it..The only problem I have is when I see a Pats fan say "All you have to do is stop it". That is the most ridiculous argument in regards to this whole thing..The teams they are pounding into submission cant stop it..I am sure that line will make you guys puff your chests up even more but look at the facts..The Pats are crushing these teams and are a massive talent and its obvious that these teams cant stop them ..Escpecially late in the game. They owned the Bills last night and the Bills had no chance of stopping them..If the organization wants to handle themselves that way its fine..A loss is a loss as far as I am concerned..I am glad the Glory day Cowboys didnt do it but again dont care that the Pats are doing it..But some of the excuses are lame..Like another classic..They are working on stuff they may have to encounter down the road

[kingfish247]

...This is where if I was a player on the other team, I would take the penalty and fine and just take a cheapshot! Enough is enough. ...

Now THIS is classy

 

Frustrated that you're inferior in every way to your opponent? Take a cheapshot in an attempt to injure someone... very classy.

Edited November 19, 2007 by kingfish247

[gilthorp]

I do not think there is a single blitz that the Offensive Line is not prepared for. That is the real special thing they are doing there.

 

Classy or not classy, there isn't one NFL player that is not going to want to go to New England and play their asses off for that team in the future. Every blow out is a unmade recruiting call. Amazing.

[Jackass]

Now THIS is classy

 

Frustrated that you're inferior in every way to your opponent? Take a cheapshot in an attempt to injure someone... very classy.

 

No doubt. People are such hypocrites.

[DemonKnight]

Take a cheapshot in an attempt to injure someone... very classy.

 

 

Sorta like Vince Wilfork did to JP Losman in thier first meeting. Cheapest shot I've seen in a while.

[hooknladder]

Now THIS is classy

 

Frustrated that you're inferior in every way to your opponent? Take a cheapshot in an attempt to injure someone... very classy.

i think this is a real possibility. there's a good chance someone will get frustrated and take a shot. -then all the score run-ups will be for nothing. and from that stand-point it's poor coaching.

[Bill Swerski]

Now THIS is classy

 

Frustrated that you're inferior in every way to your opponent? Take a cheapshot in an attempt to injure someone... very classy.

 

The Pats are lucky that they don't have the opportunity to run up the score on the Titans later this year. They're the type of defense that would actually do this.

[kingfish247]

Maybe this has already been brought up/discussed (don't feel like going through all 60 of the Pats Haters Club threads)...

 

one thing I haven't heard about this Pats run on offense is the change in the pass interference rules in 2004.

 

Everyone has called them cheaters and they just want to rub it in... yeah, yeah. But, IMO, what they seem to have done is assembled a team and system that is taking full advantage of the pass coverage rule changes that they're largely responsible for (the rule changes came about after the NFL reviewed tape of the '03-'04 playoffs... specifically how the Pats DBs were covering Indy's WRs in the AFC Championship game).

 

Like any game, it's important to know the rules and even more important to make the rules work in your favor. They were doing that before but the NFL felt it necessary to change those rules. Well, the Pats have assembled a team that is thumbing their nose at the rules that many NFL people were crying like babies for.

 

BB/Pats to the rest of the league... you want to make it easy to pass and catch the ball? Well, we'll show you what happens when you turn the NFL into a track meet by shattering almost every major single season passing and receiving record. Thereby eventually forcing you to second guess the rule changes we were apparently responsible for.

[fballfreak]

I've read all seven pages of this thread. Having been someone who has long thought calling off the dogs in the 4th quarter was a classy and respectful thing to do, the recurring threads following each Patriots game made me rethink this.

 

Note that I am not a Patriot fan...my allegiances lie with the Mangenius and the Jets.

 

I did some thinking on the topic and continued to be led back to words that I keep framed on my desk, spoken by the legend himself, Vince Lombardi:

 

"Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

 

"There is no room for second place. There is only one place in my game, and that's first place. I have finished second twice in my time at Green Bay, and I don't ever want to finish second again. There is a second place bowl game, but it is a game for losers played by losers. It is and always has been an American zeal to be first in anything we do, and to win, and to win, and to win.

 

"Every time a football player goes to play his trade he's got to play from the ground up — from the soles of his feet right up to his head. Every inch of him has to play. Some guys play with their heads. That's O.K. You've got to be smart to be number one in any business. But more importantly, you've got to play with your heart, with every fiber of your body. If you're lucky enough to find a guy with a lot of head and a lot of heart, he's never going to come off the field second.

 

"Running a football team is no different than running any other kind of organization — an army, a political party or a business. The principles are the same. The object is to win — to beat the other guy. Maybe that sounds hard or cruel. I don't think it is.

 

"It is a reality of life that men are competitive and the most competitive games draw the most competitive men. That's why they are there — to compete. To know the rules and objectives when they get in the game. The object is to win fairly, squarely, by the rules— but to win.

 

"And in truth, I've never known a man worth his salt who in the long run, deep down in his heart, didn't appreciate the grind, the discipline. There is something in good men that really yearns for discipline and the harsh reality of head to head combat.

 

"I don't say these things because I believe in the "brute" nature of man or that men must be brutalized to be combative. I believe in God, and I believe in human decency. But I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle — victorious."

 

"The object is to win farely, squarely, by the rules." Assuming "Spygate" is over, what exactly are the Patriots doing that is so wrong? Yes, they risk getting their best players hurt. But that affects their team's aspirations, none other. Also, "letting up" implies that the intensity level goes down...and that is a good way to get someone hurt. Players work hard all weel, learning the game plan, practing till perfection...and they're supposed to sit and watch a third to a quarter of the game simply because they are too good? What kind of message does that send to your players, as they are being pulled week in and week out? How do you think they will continue to respond in practices and in games? Their intensity and concentration has got to go down somewhat.

 

I don't buy it. Although I am far from a Patriots fan, I simply believe that they are the best team I have seen in a long, long time.

 

Well done

 

Spoken by a fan of the game and not just a homer like 90% of the tools on here. I admire what the Jets did yesterday to PIT. How can a fan of football not like what the Pats or Cle are doing this season. How about GB off to there best start in years, and DAL is rolling (props to them). Any moron who doesn't see good football coming from other teams in the NFL than the Patriots are tools. Sorry I didn't mention IND but i'll give them props too although they're going to have there work cutout for them with the absence of Freeny.

[fballfreak]

Success breeds jealousy, arrogant success just adds flame to the already burning fire.

spoken like a true homer.

 

love the game not the team

[fballfreak]

I admire their high level of execution. They're the best team that I've ever seen... and will quite possibly go down as the best ever.

 

That said, I just can't bring myself to respect a coach who consistently decides to go for it on 4th down in the red zone with a four-, five-, or six-TD lead in the second half. Especially when the opponent sucks (Bills, Redskins, etc.), has been dominated for the entire game, and literally has no chance of coming back. I thought that winning was the only thing that mattered. What Belichick is doing is nothing short of stat-padding. IMO, that's not the way that the game should be played and I refuse to respect that style of play.

 

And I honestly don't really have a problem with anything else. If they throw the ball much better than they run it, I have no problem with them doing that in the fourth quarter. I have no problem with their starters being out there early in the 4th. And since the players are just doing what they're told, I have no beef with them, either.

 

 

I respect what you're saying Bill. But on the other hand going for it in 4th and 1 situations with a big lead could also be looked at as a message to opposing teams to do there friggin jobs and stop his team from scoring.

Edited November 19, 2007 by fballfreak

[Bill Swerski]

I respect what you're saying Bill. But on the other hand going for it in 4th and 1 situations with a big lead could also be looked at as a message to opposing teams to do there friggin jobs and stop his team from scoring.

 

Why would BB care to send a "message" to a team that he's already beaten? That doesn't make any sense.

[fballfreak]

Why would BB care to send a "message" to a team that he's already beaten? That doesn't make any sense.

because he has it out for Goodell from the week 1 fiasco? That's all I can think of Bill because any normal coach wouldn't do that.

[Bill Swerski]

because he has it out for Goodell from the week 1 fiasco? That's all I can think of Bill because any normal coach wouldn't do that.

 

OK, I see what you're saying. And I tend to agree.

[Jrick35]

I did not read all 8 pages so if this has been posted please forgive me but...

 

Remember the playoff game when the Bills were down by 32 at the half and came back to win with Frank Reich at qb?

 

Or just a few years ago when the Colts scored 21 points in the last 4 minutes to win at Tampa?

 

What determines a lead to be insurmountable?

 

I say play ball. Score when you can.

 

Who cares if they go for it on 4th down, that is just one more chance to stop them.

 

I hate the fact that the Colts will probably lose to these guys in the playoffs but it reall doesn't matter if they lose 24 - 20 or 124 - 20, it is still just one loss.

 

And here's a little food for thought, If bb is sending a message to anyone it is not the team he is beating this week, it is the teams that he is going to be playing in the coming weeks.

 

This team is a juggernaut, why fight it. When Manning was scoring all of his TD's I enjoyed watching it and I hate to admit it but it is fun watching the Pats play.

 

They are the epitome of execution. And that will make it that much sweeter if the Colts can knock them off in January.

[SuperCharger]

Why would BB care to send a "message" to a team that he's already beaten? That doesn't make any sense.

 

 

I don't neccessarily think BB is trying to send a message with the 4th down plays. I think he's trying to stay consistant in his play calling for a full 60 minutes. The Pats are playing very agressive this year and they feel it's important to play consistant for a full 60 mins. They don't change the play calling regardless of the score, they start aggressive and end aggressive.

 

EDIT : I wanted to add that BB does not call the offensive plays, I'm speaking for the Patriots as a team.

Edited November 19, 2007 by SuperCharger

[xtra]

I respect what you're saying Bill. But on the other hand going for it in 4th and 1 situations with a big lead could also be looked at as a message to opposing teams to do there friggin jobs and stop his team from scoring.

...and a coach trying to Knock Brady and/or Moss out would be sending a message to Bellichick to stop running up the score and padding stats.

Edited November 19, 2007 by xtra

[Hugh B Tool]

This will come back and bite them, possibly this year, but definately sooner than later. This is the NFL and these men don't like getting their collective faces rubbed in spit whenever the occasion arises. Karma? these foes will make their own. Let up on clean hit on Moss or Brady? in a pigs arse. They look pretty much unbeatable now, but give them one key injury and they will be the ones smelling the spit

[kingfish247]

because he has it out for Goodell from the week 1 fiasco? That's all I can think of Bill because any normal coach wouldn't do that.

Like I mentioned above... the spying stuff only added to this. By week 1, they had already assembled a ridiculous collection of talent on offense in the offseason.

 

The pass interference rules changed in '04.

They inexplicably don't win the next 2 Super Bowls.

 

They realize that Reche Caldwell, Troy Brown, and Doug Gabriel aren't getting it done.

Snag Welker and Stallworth on the cheap. Moss for even less.

 

Voila... best single season for a passing offense, ever.

 

An aside... I shudder to think the stats that Brady/Moss would've put up to date had Moss not wasted 2 'post-pass interference rule change' years of his life in Oakland with a carousel of coaches and QBs.

 

taken from the prophetic Football Outsiders article about the changes, ...

 

SUMMARY

We don’t really know what effect the change in pass interference guidelines will have this year. However, if the effects are similar to the last time these rules were strictly enforced, back in 1994, here’s what you can expect:

 

Passing yardage and pass attempts will increase. The average team will pass for 10-15 yards more per game.

Scoring will increase slightly.

However, the effectiveness of individual passes won’t really change at all. We’ll just see a few more of them.

A few veteran receivers will see their aging patterns slow a bit. A couple may have unexpected 1000-yard seasons.

Rookie receivers will likely have a greater impact than in past years.

The rule changes won’t affect defenses with physical cornerbacks (New England, Miami) any more than the rest of the league.

[xMRogers]

The 4th and 1 thing isn't classless - just is a "we'll play the game and let them stop us or not"

 

The keepign of the starters in as long as he did this game is a bit odd to me - not "classy" or not, but I gotta ask why? Halftime or one possession after would have seemed to be a good time to sit Brady and Moss (for Brady, it actually was only one more possession). It does seem likely that sooner or later that part of it will bite them.

 

In saying all that, hope they are happy with 10 straight, cause they aren't getting 11