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Another Pit Bull Attack


Double Agent
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BLah Blah Blah....the same old rehtoric....from you so called Pit Bull haters.....LEARN THE FACTS or at least pretend to be intelligent!!!!

 

You sound just like the assjackers who say POT is the gateway drug.....GET AN F n CLUE....Persons like you disgust me and make me want to puke for you have all the answers to the other guys problems but yet fail to look in the mirror and see the biggest problem on this planet....YOURSELVES!!!

 

:wacko:

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BLah Blah Blah....the same old rehtoric....from you so called Pit Bull haters.....LEARN THE FACTS or at least pretend to be intelligent!!!!

 

You sound just like the assjackers who say POT is the gateway drug.....GET AN F n CLUE....Persons like you disgust me and make me want to puke for you have all the answers to the other guys problems but yet fail to look in the mirror and see the biggest problem on this planet....YOURSELVES!!!

 

Speaking of pot...

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I still think that the wrong thing was captured and destroyed, but I'm certainly not going to change your mind about it so I'll leave it at that.

Agreed. That's quite the strawman to say that because his neighbors refused to deal with a dog that had become violent, that it proves anything here... You're right, it only reinforces the idea that it's not the dogs that are the problem.

 

Would you ever own a pit bull?

 

I guess that is what I don't get. Why would anyone conciously choose to own a pit bull? Makes abolutely no sense to me. If you have kids it even makes less sense (if possible).

I know a girl who runs a pitbull rescue, and they are always looking for good homes for the dogs, so yes, if I didn't have 2 pooches already, I'd strongly consider one of them.... However, my yard isn't fenced in, so the dog would either need to be trained to stay in the yard and be friendly, or be young enough for me to teach it.

 

I don't have kids though... So if you want to admit that some pitbulls may not be a good fit with kids (even though there are plenty that are), my example of the dog that bit me as a kid shows that you have to take precautinos with any breed of dog. Even my border collie has snapped at some kids, as much as I hate to say, though luckily they didn't mess with him enough to get bit hard.

Edited by delusions of granduer
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I still think that the wrong thing was captured and destroyed, but I'm certainly not going to change your mind about it so I'll leave it at that.

Don't get me wrong - I'd have the owner destroyed too, if possible. But three bites from any dog and it should go down, regardless of breed.

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I'm pretty sure the issue isn't the number of bites from pitbulls versus collies, but rather the amount of damage that pitbulls can consistently do versus a collie. You're comparing a peashooter pistol to a handgrenade :wacko:

Yes, lockjaw is nothing to mess with, and I certainly don't agree with the way many of them have been bred to be agressive, but I guess I jsut look at it like any other responsible dog ownership to take every precaution.

 

I guess I'm just not really sure what the endgame of the people against pitbull ownership is here.... There are a ton of pitbulls that need a good home, particularly the ones rescued/abandoned from fighting rings.... If you can do that without putting others in danger, the dogs are almost always as sweet as can be to their owners. Other than that though, you have to take the same precautinos as I do with my collie around children.

Edited by delusions of granduer
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Agreed. That's quite the strawman to say that because his neighbors refused to deal with a dog that had become violent, that it proves anything here... You're right, it only reinforces the idea that it's not the dogs that are the problem.

The statistics I posted are what prove something. My personal story was merely anecdotal. Besides, it's not an "either or" false dilemma of the dog v. owners. It can be one, the other, or both.

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The statistics I posted are what prove something. My personal story was merely anecdotal. Besides, it's not an "either or" false dilemma of the dog v. owners. It can be one, the other, or both.

Fair enough... But it is undoubtedly the breeders who bred the dangerous ones to be that way, and undoubtedly the owners who need to be responsible for their dog. Sure you can blame the breed, but it solves nothing, and certainly doesn't help them find homes by crusading against them.

 

Maybe I'm missing what the argument is here since I haven't read the thread.... Is this just a bitch-fest about Pit Bulls, or what are the anti-pit-bull people advocating?

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Fair enough... But it is undoubtedly the breeders who bred the dangerous ones to be that way, and undoubtedly the owners who need to be responsible for their dog. Sure you can blame the breed, but it solves nothing, and certainly doesn't help them find homes by crusading against them.

 

Maybe I'm missing what the argument is here since I haven't read the thread.... Is this just a bitch-fest about Pit Bulls, or what are the anti-pit-bull people advocating?

If it were up to me, pit bull owners would need a license to own the dog after obtaining some modest mandatory safety/obedience training. Criminals will choose not to follow the law, and you can't prevent that. But you can make the punishment more severe for those folks - mandatory felony assault and battery for the owner of an unlicensed pit bull that attacks. Licensed owners would be subject to the regular rules that apply to all breeds generally.

 

The pro-pit folks like to talk about how the "responsible" owners aren't the problem. Fine. Then let's hold folks to heightened level of responsibility for a breed that has an undeniably heightened instance of serious/fatal attacks on a per capita, per breed basis. The "responsible" owners have to do a little more paper work to own a more dangerous breed, which is fair and rational. Only the "bad" owners are faced with a more serious punishment. And in the process, maybe a few people who have no business owning a pit bull (but don't know it) will be deterred from getting one.

 

I'm not an advocate of banning the breed, fyi.

Edited by yo mama
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I'm pretty sure the issue isn't the number of bites from pitbulls versus collies, but rather the amount of damage that pitbulls can consistently do versus a collie. You're comparing a peashooter pistol to a handgrenade :wacko:

 

 

Reminds me of the story of the woman who took in the half frozen smake she found on the path. She nested it to her breast in front of the fire, after it warmed it bite her. As she was dying she asked the snake why. "Why would you bite me when I took you in and nurtured you?" The snake simply replied, "Lady, you knew I was a snake when you took me in."

 

Or does it remind one of the story of the scorpion asking to get ferried across the stream by the turtle. No matter, parables are fun.

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One interesting tidbit here.... Denver has a BSL (breed specific legislation) towards pitbulls, so you can't own a pitbull within the Denver city limits. The dog that bit this anchor woman is a Dogo Argentino Mastiff, a breed that probably has become popular as a breed that is legal, in Denver, and has a similar temperament to a Pit. The thing is the Dogo is probably more dangerous because they are larger, and bred to not only be a fighting breed, but bred to guard the estates against intruders in Argentina. I have always called them PB's on steriods.

 

Pits were orginally bred to be dog fighters, but very tolerant and affectionate towards people-although have been breed to be aggressive towards people in the last 30 years by some breeders, and probably for the drug trade. These types of breeds are bred to have poor bite inhibition which is a rare trait to breed, unless you want a dog to do damage. For example, a herding breed is bred to have excellent bite inhibition. You want a dog to intimidate livestock through nipping but not draw blood, and to nip and release. Hunting breeds are bred to have good bite inhibition, to carry game with a soft mouth so not not destroy the game. Another thing about the Mastiff breeds is they are bred as independent thinkers. To not take direction from their owners, but make decisions on their own.

 

Genetics are hard to breed out of a dog, but certain traits can be bred out in a few generations if in the hands of the right breeder and breed club. English Mastiffs were once bred to be aggressive, but the breed clubs worked hard to make this breed a gentle giant and have mostly succeeded. Boxers would be another example. The thing is ethologists have learned the genes come in clusters. So you breed out aggression, and then you accidently breed in something else, and something maybe completely different like a genetic health problem.

 

If you want an easy family pet, look for breeds that very biddable (look to owners for direction, are a working breed, bred to work closely with their handlers), and be very tolerant. As a reliable family pet, look for a breed who has not been bred as a guardian breed, and to use their mouth as a line of defense. The Labs and Goldens are the closest POPULAR breeds, we have to such a dog, although there are plenty more. Other hunting breeds are less biddable. Many of the herding breeds are very biddable, but some tend to be cautious around people and other dogs, if not socialized at a young age. Many herding breeds were orginally bred as an all purpose farm dog which meant protect the farm, kill vermin, as well as herd the livestock. They are also bred to contol things that are moving by nipping, which is not the best around children under the age of 12. I would say the Aussie is the best herding breed candidate as far as steady temperament. Hounds and Terriers are the least biddable breeds because they were bred as independent thinkers. Most of the hounds are very tolerant, love people, so they make great pets around children, but just not easy train. Terriers are some of the hardest breeds to have as a family pet, based again on what they were bred for. They are not very biddable, really lack tolerance, and are as independent as they come.

 

Canine ethology and breed development is a passion of mine. I have had many of these Mastiff breeds go through my training classes. I have never had a Dogo Argentino in my classes but have had the similar Mastiff breeds, bred for the same purpose; The Tosa (Japanese Mastiff), Boerbel (African Mastiff), and Presa Canario (Mastiff of the Canary Islands). The Presa is the breed that killed Diane Whipple many years back in SF, if you remember the national news re: this trial case.

 

What we need to do is create a new breed. Not a breed that made the best working for purpose dog in the 19th and 20th century, but a dog that makes the best suburban dog in the 21st century. That would be a dog that is biddable, and extremely passive, and tolerant. As long as we keep breeding to the AKC breed standard that was written when these breeds were developed, that won't happen.

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Good stuff, Shug! :tup:

So where does a Catahoula (mix) fit in? :wacko:

I was told by a neighbor who is in construction that a lot of the guys have them chained in the back of their pickups to protect their tools.

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Good stuff, Shug! :tup:

So where does a Catahoula (mix) fit in? :wacko:

I was told by a neighbor who is in construction that a lot of the guys have them chained in the back of their pickups to protect their tools.

 

The Catahoula was bred as a hunting and herding dog. I have to look it up but I think the origin of the breed is not entirely known.

 

They tend to be very protective so were probably also bred for protectioin purposes on the farm.

 

They are suspose to be quite sharp and can be very independent.

 

I have not had a Catahoula in my classes, but have had a few shelter/rescues who were thought to be Catahoula crosses. These thought to be X's were all very nice dogs.

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The Catahoula was bred as a hunting and herding dog. I have to look it up but I think the origin of the breed is not entirely known.

 

They tend to be very protective so were probably also bred for protectioin purposes on the farm.

 

They are suspose to be quite sharp and can be very independent.

 

I have not had a Catahoula in my classes, but have had a few shelter/rescues who were thought to be Catahoula crosses. These thought to be X's were all very nice dogs.

 

TY!

So far so is ours (almost 2 years now)..that is at times independent, sweet, friendly, a hunter of back yard rodents, and follows the wife around all the time.

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TY!

So far so is ours (almost 2 years now)..that is at times independent, sweet, friendly, a hunter of back yard rodents, and follows the wife around all the time.

 

I am not surprised that she is a good hunter of rodents. Based on the region where the Catahoula was developed, they were probably bred as a multi purpose dog. Hunter, herder, vermin killer, and guardian.

 

My Aussie likes to hunt mice, and eats them still alive. It is a little disturbing to watch :wacko:

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  • 9 months later...

I am not surprised that she is a good hunter of rodents. Based on the region where the Catahoula was developed, they were probably bred as a multi purpose dog. Hunter, herder, vermin killer, and guardian.

 

My Aussie likes to hunt mice, and eats them still alive. It is a little disturbing to watch :unsure:

 

 

You've never seen RR gum a ham sandwich, have you? :unsure:

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We've got a Catahoula/Chow mix that certainly fits the mold. Of our two dogs, she's certainly the most protective and dog-aggressive (not that she's ever truly attacked another dog, but she does get in some pretty aggressive stand-offs). She also freaking loves to hunt field mice more than almost anything. We take them to a park where they can run off leash and all she wants to do is hang in the tall grass going after mice. She could do that for hours.

 

She also likes to herd. When she's playing with other dogs, she often nips at their back heels while they're running around. From what I understand, one of the things they were bred for was herding pigs. And, to do so they'd basically heckle the pigs into chasing them back to the pen, running through a big door the pig could get through and then a smaller one the pig couldn't. The farmer would then close the big door behind the pig.

 

She's crazy soft, like rabbit fur, but that's likely from the Chow, even though it's not quite the same as a Chows (softer still). And, of our two, she's the most affectionate to those that she knows. The hound lab gets tired of being pet on, but she'd have you rub her belly all day if you were so inclined.

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You've never seen RR gum a ham sandwich, have you? :unsure:

 

 

Let's make a deal...The next time you come over for lunch, I'll put my teeth in, but you gotta stop telling that story in return. :peace:

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