Another Pit Bull Attack

[detlef]

Clearly, you've never seen American Beauty.

We covered that a few pages back.

[Grits and Shins]

I guess it would, if you were trying to keep your child away from "risk". How many of the child deaths occur as a result of a family pit? Most of them that I read happen with someone else's pit.

 

This just happened yesterday, or maybe the day before.

 

The way the news stated it, the kid was with a sitter, and the sitter had a friend over that had a pit.

 

Parent's fault? Dog owner's fault? Sitter's fault?

 

 

I don't want my dog killing the neighbor's kids either.

[detlef]

I don't want my dog killing the neighbor's kids either.

Right. I guess somebody needed to mention that as well.

[Fatman]

We covered that a few pages back.

 

[Hugh 0ne]

I feel the only solution is to enforce laws where the owners of dogs who seriously injure people (or other dogs) are punished to hell and back. I mean, bloody crucified. That is the only way you will get people to choose not to own breeds (or variations of breeds) that are more inclined to do this. They should be treated as guns only more dangerous because, quite frankly, that's exactly what they are.

 

What if my docile cat hurts a kid? Should I be "bloody crucified"? I understand the chances of it happening are dramatically less likely, but I guess it could happen. Or maybe my parakeet claws someone's eye out. Or maybe my pet turtle crawls into someone's mouth and they choke to death. "Bloody crucifications" all around?

 

The question I'm trying to ask is how do you suggest this punishment be handled? Only to pit owners? Only to owners of possible aggressive dogs (although making that distinction could be a tricky one)? To all pet owners? I agree that harsh punishment for the owner is a great deterrent as long as the owner is responsible, but that also could be tough to determine in some cases.

[KSUChiefsTarheelFan]

Right, and more kids die in pools than skydiving. Wow, you're on a roll. Just one leg short of the lame analogy triple crown.

 

So, point out potentially dangerous act to dispute another, check.

 

OK, now point out that something is more fatal quite simply because there's a ton more chances of it happening to begin with. Gotcha. Dude, nearly every single child alive has parents. Should they die from any unnatural act, it can very likely be traced back to dumb parenting. Hell, if they get killed by the family dog and that dog is a pit, the pits don't even gain any ground in your comparison because you've got to put a check in both the pit death and dumb parent death column.

Preciate it....trying hard to be up there with the likes of you and the rest of these veterans is hard work. SO i guess with this one, i will get that last leg fo my lame analogy triple crown.

 

I am just so sick of hearing about the animal getting the bad rap when WE are the ones that raise the animals. I guess my line of thinking is skewed.

[Grits and Shins]

Preciate it....trying hard to be up there with the likes of you and the rest of these veterans is hard work. SO i guess with this one, i will get that last leg fo my lame analogy triple crown.

 

I am just so sick of hearing about the animal getting the bad rap when WE are the ones that raise the animals. I guess my line of thinking is skewed.

 

Yes ... WE do raise the animals and that certainly impacts their demeanor, nobody is arguing against that. However, no matter how well raised there appears to be in ingrained tendency toward violence in this particular breed.

 

The simple fact that the animal is raised in a loving and caring home with a strong alpha pack leader does not eliminate an animal's ingrained behaviors. If you were to capture a lion cub and raise it in a loving and caring home with all the appropriate alpha dominate behaviors does it make the animal safe? Of if you prefer about about a wild wolf cub?

[Ursa Majoris]

The thing about pits or rots or other protection dogs is that people want it both ways. They want a lovable pet (hopefully) but also want something that's capable of ripping your head off if you break into their house. I think that's a dangerous wish. I don't think anyone here would every confuse me as a gun advocate, but I endorse having a normal dog as a pet and a piece in your bedroom long before you look for a living creature with a very limited mental capacity to handle both jobs.

Pretty good argument here. Trying to have a family pet that is totally reliable around small kids double up as a violent attack machine is plain silly.

[Double Agent]

If you were to capture a lion cub and raise it in a loving and caring home with all the appropriate alpha dominate behaviors does it make the animal safe? Of if you prefer about about a wild wolf cub?

 

Exactly the point. You cannot un-train nature. Many have tried and paid the ultimate price.

[detlef]

What if my docile cat hurts a kid? Should I be "bloody crucified"? I understand the chances of it happening are dramatically less likely, but I guess it could happen. Or maybe my parakeet claws someone's eye out. Or maybe my pet turtle crawls into someone's mouth and they choke to death. "Bloody crucifications" all around?

 

The question I'm trying to ask is how do you suggest this punishment be handled? Only to pit owners? Only to owners of possible aggressive dogs (although making that distinction could be a tricky one)? To all pet owners? I agree that harsh punishment for the owner is a great deterrent as long as the owner is responsible, but that also could be tough to determine in some cases.

Well, for starters, I did say "seriously" and, yes, I understand that it's a very slippery slope. However, I see you asked about pit owners or owners of other dangerous breeds. I thought I was quite specific in saying that this solution was to avoid the obvious problems with trying to fixate on breeds. After all, is it still a pit if you breed a bit with a rot? What if it's mostly pit? What if it's another breed that wherethefugowie has stupidly trained to kill?

 

The point is, the odds of your pet turtle crawling into someone's mouth and choking them is so tiny that it ranks way, way behind any number of ways you could die or cause the death of another. So, it's a risk you don't mind taking. Same with the parakeet and they eyes (unless you could somehow train him to do so). So, when you're about to buy that turtle, you wouldn't be thinking, "Gee, I could get in real trouble if this thing attacks someone"

 

Unfortunately, I'm rather certain that this would get completely mucked up in the lawmaking process but I really don't see any other way to raise the stakes for people who choose to own dogs that are much more likely of being dangerous than others.

 

Oh, and Heelsfan, don't think that those of us arguing with you are trying to absolve the owners of a damned thing. It's my lack of faith in my fellow man, not dogs, that makes me freaked out about these breeds. I don't want to be the guy who lives next door to the guy who let his pit share the bed so now he wants to kill me. I'd simply rather that guy own a breed who wont make us pay so dearly for the fact that the owner didn't do everything 100% correctly. 'Cause I'm pretty certain the owner's name is not Caesar.

[Hugh 0ne]

Pretty good argument here. Trying to have a family pet that is totally reliable around small kids double up as a violent attack machine is plain silly.

 

We have 2 Weimaraners, as Yo Mama mentioned earlier, they're not exactly known for killing people. However, they are still animals, and at the end of the day, if they do something to one of my kids, I am responsible. So, we treat our dogs like animals, and are teaching our children to treat them like animals. We don't allow for any unsupervised interaction between my dogs and my kids. At night, my dogs are not crated. If someone comes to the house, they immediately investigate, which includes charging the door and barking like lunatics. My dogs are pretty friendly, I'm not sure what they'd do if someone actually broke into the house, but I use them as an alarm system to buy me time.

[Caveman_Nick]

Clearly, you've never seen American Beauty.

 

Clearly being Fat means you are also slow.

[Grits and Shins]

We have 2 Weimaraners, as Yo Mama mentioned earlier, they're not exactly known for killing people. However, they are still animals, and at the end of the day, if they do something to one of my kids, I am responsible. So, we treat our dogs like animals, and are teaching our children to treat them like animals. We don't allow for any unsupervised interaction between my dogs and my kids. At night, my dogs are not crated. If someone comes to the house, they immediately investigate, which includes charging the door and barking like lunatics. My dogs are pretty friendly, I'm not sure what they'd do if someone actually broke into the house, but I use them as an alarm system to buy me time.

 

Someday ... a back yard. I love that commercial.

 

A close friend of mine had a Weimaraner and it was a wonderful dog. It learned to recognize my car security system when I locked the door and would galavant around the yard to come see me when he heard it. Unfortunately when in the care of neighbors (while my friend was out of town) it ate something that obstructed its bowels and ultimately led to its death. Every time I see that commercial I think of Moose (this dog's name) because it was so him.

Edited May 16, 2008 by Grits and Shins

[detlef]

We have 2 Weimaraners, as Yo Mama mentioned earlier, they're not exactly known for killing people. However, they are still animals, and at the end of the day, if they do something to one of my kids, I am responsible. So, we treat our dogs like animals, and are teaching our children to treat them like animals. We don't allow for any unsupervised interaction between my dogs and my kids. At night, my dogs are not crated. If someone comes to the house, they immediately investigate, which includes charging the door and barking like lunatics. My dogs are pretty friendly, I'm not sure what they'd do if someone actually broke into the house, but I use them as an alarm system to buy me time.

Well, I'm about certain that mine would be completely useless if somebody broke in. None the less, they will go ballistic if they hear somebody approach the house. I'm basically hoping that's enough to tell the guy, "maybe you should try the next house instead".

[Caveman_Nick]

Well, I'm about certain that mine would be completely useless if somebody broke in. None the less, they will go ballistic if they hear somebody approach the house. I'm basically hoping that's enough to tell the guy, "maybe you should try the next house instead".

 

This is perhaps the defining difference between a dog that says "WOOF" and a dog that says "arf!"

[Grits and Shins]

This is perhaps the defining difference between a dog that says "WOOF" and a dog that says "arf!"

 

My daughter's dog says "arf!" but truely believes she is saying "WOOF". She is a Toy Fox Terrier that weighs all of 8 pounds. She goes ballastic when somebody comes to the door, or she thinks somebody is at the door or if she thinks she heard something.

 

She is a very good "watch dog" but wouldn't be much of a "guard dog".

Edited May 16, 2008 by Grits and Shins

[Hugh 0ne]

Well, I'm about certain that mine would be completely useless if somebody broke in. None the less, they will go ballistic if they hear somebody approach the house. I'm basically hoping that's enough to tell the guy, "maybe you should try the next house instead".

 

Yep, exactly. They are an advanced warning system and a deterrent. They have never been trained to attack an intruder, although my male is a bit agressive, and if threatened, might lash out. My female would piss herself and run the other way.

[detlef]

This is perhaps the defining difference between a dog that says "WOOF" and a dog that says "arf!"

Mine are sort of in the middle but enough "woof" that I think it'd make someone think twice. One's got a hound howl and the other's pretty gutteral. At very least, anyone breaking in is going to be certain that we're awake which, I would guess, is something they'd prefer not be the case.

[wiegie]

my pet turtle

I bought my kids an alligator snapping turtle as a pet. People told me that it would have been better to have given them a box turtle but I think if I raise the turtle correctly, there won't be any problems.

[Grits and Shins]

I bought my kids an alligator snapping turtle as a pet. People told me that it would have been better to have given them a box turtle but I think if I raise the turtle correctly, there won't be any problems.

 

You should have bought them an alligator. With the right amount of love and dominance you could have a wonderful pet that is also a deterrent to unwanted intrusions.

[Ursa Majoris]

We have 2 Weimaraners, as Yo Mama mentioned earlier, they're not exactly known for killing people. However, they are still animals, and at the end of the day, if they do something to one of my kids, I am responsible. So, we treat our dogs like animals, and are teaching our children to treat them like animals. We don't allow for any unsupervised interaction between my dogs and my kids. At night, my dogs are not crated. If someone comes to the house, they immediately investigate, which includes charging the door and barking like lunatics. My dogs are pretty friendly, I'm not sure what they'd do if someone actually broke into the house, but I use them as an alarm system to buy me time.

You are an excellent owner and having dogs in the house that bark like crazy and let an approaching person know they are there is a great deterrent. No need to have killing machines in the place.

 

Well, I'm about certain that mine would be completely useless if somebody broke in. None the less, they will go ballistic if they hear somebody approach the house. I'm basically hoping that's enough to tell the guy, "maybe you should try the next house instead".

Ditto to my comment above.

[gbpfan1231]

Sac and KSU. Let me try to use your argument of household cleaners in a way that may help you understand what people are saying.

 

There are two household cleaners available at the local store - Cleaner one we will call Golden Cleaner Cleaner two we will call Pit Cleaner. Golden cleaner and Pit cleaner all have about the same cleaning potential and o all the things you want it to do. Golden Cleaner if swallowed by a child would make the child sick for a couple of days but really no harm done. Pit cleaner if swallowed is poison and could possibly kill your child and at the very least will have permanent harm to your child. Pit cleaner is bottled in a manner that makes it look like Juicy Juice with NO safety cap and golden cleaner is bottled like cleaner and has a child safety cap - for this reason alone more children ingest pit cleaner than golden cleaner.

 

Now if you as a parent knowingly choose Pit leaner you are a moron and have made a bad choice.

 

This inmy opinion is similar to making the CHOICE to own Pit Bull over a calmer more mild mannered breed of dog.

[untateve]

Sac and KSU. Let me try to use your argument of household cleaners in a way that may help you understand what people are saying.

 

There are two household cleaners available at the local store - Cleaner one we will call Golden Cleaner Cleaner two we will call Pit Cleaner. Golden cleaner and Pit cleaner all have about the same cleaning potential and o all the things you want it to do. Golden Cleaner if swallowed by a child would make the child sick for a couple of days but really no harm done. Pit cleaner if swallowed is poison and could possibly kill your child and at the very least will have permanent harm to your child. Pit cleaner is bottled in a manner that makes it look like Juicy Juice with NO safety cap and golden cleaner is bottled like cleaner and has a child safety cap - for this reason alone more children ingest pit cleaner than golden cleaner.

 

Now if you as a parent knowingly choose Pit leaner you are a moron and have made a bad choice.

 

This inmy opinion is similar to making the CHOICE to own Pit Bull over a calmer more mild mannered breed of dog.

 

moran

[gbpfan1231]

moran

Sorry - not up on the huddlersims or huddlisma or whatever that is called.

[McBoog]

8% chow,

 

For milenia, we have bred dogs to be living tools and fill many needs.

 

Chows were bred as a weapon to kill the enemy and as a back-up food source for advancing armies. It took centuries to "calm" the breed and they are still wierd animals and very one person oriented.

 

A co-worker of mine had to kill his "loving and faithful" four year old Pit when it turned on his son, maiming him for life. They were playing tug-of-war as they did a hundred times before when the dog "snapped" (his words, not mine, they do this often). The missing chunk of the boys hamstring and jeans were found in the stomach of the animal. Four rounds of .40 caliber stopped the attack and the dog died three hours later. His son, now crippled for life, had his face and ear mutilated and one eye lost. Right arm lost just below the elbow. This damage took about 15 seconds and the kid will probably never fully recover emotionally (this was his trusted friend through practically his whole living memory). As sad a note to this story is that he now "regrets not listening" to everyone that warned him in the first place about pit bulls. He is a big "macho" kind of guy and always liked the "macho" image of his dog. He was responsible and took it to all the "right" schools, but Pit bulls cause one-third of dog-bite related fatalities while only make up less than 2% of the dog population.

 

My children BEFORE this happened were and are not allowed near these animals and I will only go near them when I am armed and acting in an official capacity. Two of us had to kill a Pit that attacked us during a warrant when the "master" was cooperating with us and trying to call the animal off (I don't call them "dogs"). It took six shots and it still got within a yard of us. If one arrives at a dog park or beach or is already there when I get arrive, I leave.

 

one of the things that makes any dog dangerous to people is its propensity to attack other dogs. The reason is that the owner of the other dog is often nearby, either trying to pull the dog away, holding the dog, or breaking up the fight. It is natural for a human being to protect his or her pet. This is a normal human response to a dog fight -- unless the person is a criminal who attends dog fights.

 

I love dogs and couldn't imagine living without one in my home! Though I don't have time to find all the info/links, it is out there. A show on Discovery Channel even was dedicated to it. Many evolutionary scientists believe that our association with the dog allowed us to evolve physically in a way that enabled us to produce the type of speech we are capable of. The longer face and hence more efficient nasal chamber comes with the price of less tounge control and other factorl limiting the type of verbal communication we enjoy. By teaming up with dogs, we were able to rely on their sences of approaching danger or nearby prey while evolving bigger brains and speech ability. Of all the primates, we are the only one that evolved into they type of predator that we are.

 

Cool paper on the subject

 

Pit Bulls are useless and should all be killed. The spin continues, but there are too many other dogs that do all the same things better than a Pit Bull does (except maybe killing) without the worry of it "snapping".