Double Agent

Another Pit Bull Attack

Recommended Posts

I just saw this thread and have not gotten all the way through, so may respond again.

 

I train lots of Pits and Pit mixes. The local shelter recommends me as the local trainer and since they receive and adopt out lots of Pits and Pit mixes, they end up in my class.

 

When making your decision on what type of breed is right for you, you have to consider what they were bred for. At least 50% of the dog's temperament will be nature (hard wired), and 50% will be nuture (how they are raised)., at least IMO. It isn't just about how they are raised. I can't get my Gordon Setter to stop wanting to point at birds, or my Australian Shepherd to stop herding-it's hardwired.

 

Pits were bred to be dog aggressive. The were bred to have a high pain threshold. They were bred to have a hard bite and to finish the job. They weren't originally bred to attack and be aggressive towards humans, in fact, just the opposite. Humans had to be able to handle them when in pain and injured to administer antibiotics and drain and disinfect wounds. In fact the proper temperament of a Pit is to be "slutty affectionate" around humans.

 

There are a lot of more recent poorly bred Pits since Pits have been bred and sold as guard dogs. Also, they are very loyal so if they think "their human" is threatened they may bite. When a Pit bites, because of it's hardwired behavior to bite hard and finish the job, they do more damage when they bite a dog or human. The other thing that doesn't help is, people are naturally afraid of Pits. Dogs naturally are suspicious of anything that shows fear and it builds their own confidence to follow through. Bites stats are often skued since all bully breeds that look like Pits are oten put in one category as Pits. English Bull Dogs, American Bull Dogs, Am Staffs, Am Staff Bull Terriers, Bull Terriers, and some Mastiff breeds like the Presa are often put in one group.

 

Herding dogs in general probably bite more than Pits since they are control freaks and bite to control, but their hardwired behavior is to nip as a warning bite, and back away. Their bite is bred to be inhibited to give an intimidating warning. They mostly intimidate through a hard eye and stalking or body slamming. German Shepherds, Dobies, and most guardian breeds are bred to give lots of vocalization to get the intruder to back away. Most people respond to the threatening vocalization and back away before they get bitten. Like Pits, Rotties are silent, and bred that way, giving little warning. Tey also have poweful jaws like the Pits. I'm going to guess that Chihauhuas bite more than any other breed, but they do little damage and often never reported. These are all vast generalizations and I bet you all could sight cases cases of dogs of these breeds who don't exibit this temperament, just like there are plenty of Gordn Setters who don't know what a bird is, or an Australian Shepherd who doesn't herd, or nip.

 

I helped establish a temperament test protocol at my local shelter. This is a test you do to find out if the dog is fit to be adopted. You do certain tests to find out if the dog shows aggression. Unfortunately, many Pits and Pit mixes have to be put down. If they show just the slightest sign of aggression they will not be adopted out because if they bite, they have the potential to do so much damage. It maybe is not fair, but if a Border Collie growls if you do a bear hug and the rest of the test goes well, he is put up for adoption to a family with no children, but is adopted out. If a Pit growls, he is euthanized. Again, it is all about the damage the hardwired bite can do. I persoanlly have not seen Pits showing a higher propensity to show aggression towards humans than any other breed in these temperament tests. I DO see them show a much higher propensity towards aggression towards other dogs, especially when they reach social maturity at 2-3 years of age. I have trained so many Pits who love other dogs, been socialized around them, wonderful at dog parks through adolescence and then a switch goes on about 2 years of age, and they don't like other dogs anynore and challenge them. At the shelter they will put down Pits who show any kind of dog-dog aggression, where they won't other breeds. Agian, a Golden Retriever who gets into a fight, the fight is usually over before any major damage is done, not always true with a Pit. Yes, this is a generalization, but shelters have to look at this. They face laibiltiy issues if they send a dangerous dog out into the community.

 

I helped the shelter temperament test a young purebred Pit a few weeks ago. He did fine and played with the other dog, but he walked up very confident, intimidated the other dog just through confident body language and then did a play bow and started to play. The play was so rough the other dog (and this other dog was a Pit mix) rolled over on it's back, was sumissively licking the Pit's face and cautiously played but didn't seem to be enjoying it. I predicted this Pit would bedome dog aggressive when he got older-of course I could be wrong. This dog failed the cat test miserably and wanted to kill cats. I passed the dog but told the shelter he had to go to a Pit experienced home with no cats, and not allowed off leash where there may be a cat around.

 

My two cents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Furthermore, if this bill is passed and adopted into law, all such dogs will be seized and euthanized.

 

So, wiegie, you cool with this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, wiegie, you cool with this?

 

 

The only way they will take my dog for no reason what-so-ever is over my dead body

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thats the sadest thing I have read. A bunch of morans live in this country

A bunch of publicity seeking knee-jerking tools

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Chinese food is going to be cheap next month in Ohio...

 

:wacko:

 

That law will never pass. I think Pit Bulls are worthless, but I would never support gathering up the good ones and killing them. I think the solution is holding the owners highly responsible. If your pit bull attacks, you go to prison. It it kills, you go to prison for a long time. Everyone that owns a Pit knows they're dangerous...so it's not like it can come as a surprise when the dog goes bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the solution is holding the owners highly responsible.

Bingo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:wacko:

 

That law will never pass. I think Pit Bulls are worthless, but I would never support gathering up the good ones and killing them. I think the solution is holding the owners highly responsible. If your pit bull attacks, you go to prison. It it kills, you go to prison for a long time. Everyone that owns a Pit knows they're dangerous...so it's not like it can come as a surprise when the dog goes bad.

 

What if my Weimaraner attacks? Prison?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What if my Weimaraner attacks? Prison?

 

I understand your point, but for the sake of argument let's agree that somewhere a line needs to be drawn. Even if that line is in a place were the only way man or beast has to take responsibility for the pitbull eating kiddie faces is if the dog was trained to attack using baby dolls and fed embryos not used for stem cell research to help it get a taste for human yummies.

 

Somewhere there needs to be a set of rules to be followed. It lies somewhere between all pit bulls everywhere being killed and no person or animal having to take responsibility for baby eating unless the dog was trained to do so and then unleashed on a preschool buffet. Where is that place?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What if my Weimaraner attacks? Prison?

 

I don't want to go into another 8 pages on this subject. Pit Bulls are inherently dangerous. Everyone knows it including the owners. Weimaraners are not. So if your dog attacked (which would be unheard of) then it would probably be a complete shock to you. But when a Pit Bull attacks it's almost expected.

 

Gun ownership is held to the same high standard. A child can get hurt/killed with many household objects. But if you leave your gun lying around and the child kills him/herself with it, you could go to prison. Same reason drunk drivers who kill go to jail when just your typical dumbass driver who kills someone usually doesn't serve time. It's all about inherent danger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I understand your point, but for the sake of argument let's agree that somewhere a line needs to be drawn. Even if that line is in a place were the only way man or beast has to take responsibility for the pitbull eating kiddie faces is if the dog was trained to attack using baby dolls and fed embryos not used for stem cell research to help it get a taste for human yummies.

 

Somewhere there needs to be a set of rules to be followed. It lies somewhere between all pit bulls everywhere being killed and no person or animal having to take responsibility for baby eating unless the dog was trained to do so and then unleashed on a preschool buffet. Where is that place?

 

Don't know, but you guys are the ones that are insisting on drawing a line. I'm trying to point out that drawing this line is virtually impossible. I agree 100% with Double Agent's thought that the dog owner's should be held responsible somehow, but it's not as easy at it seems.

Edited by Hugh 0ne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't want to go into another 8 pages on this subject. Pit Bulls are inherently dangerous. Everyone knows it including the owners. Weimaraners are not. So if your dog attacked (which would be unheard of) then it would probably be a complete shock to you. But when a Pit Bull attacks it's almost expected.

 

Gun ownership is held to the same high standard. A child can get hurt/killed with many household objects. But if you leave your gun lying around and the child kills him/herself with it, you could go to prison. Same reason drunk drivers who kill go to jail when just your typical dumbass driver who kills someone usually doesn't serve time. It's all about inherent danger.

 

Well, then what if I raise my Weimaraners to be mean and attack? Which is EXACTLY what's going to happen when Pit Bulls are banned. Maybe not Weims, but the scumbags that train Pits to fight and attack will find a new breed and do the same thing to them. I guess that's my point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't know, but you guys are the ones that are insisting on drawing a line. I'm tryong to point out that drawing this line is virtually impossible. I agree 100% with Double Agent's thought that the dog owner's should be held responsible somehow, but it's not as easy at it seems.

 

 

I am not so much insisting that we draw a line as I am noting that any law governing this issue is going to be a line.

 

The simple truth is that while there is significant disagreement on this subject, the "pit bull" side of the argument is much smaller than the "It's for the children" side of the argument. And it's really the reasonable people in the middle that need to help determine what is the right thing to do. They are the only ones looking at the issue without so much bias as to be able to hear both sides of the discussion.

 

I don't know what the answer is either. I am not the kind of person that usually runs towards the safety net and sides with the "People won't get hurt if we make this decision" half of an argument. People get hurt. There is no amount of dummy proofing the world that will prevent this from happening because people will always out-dummy the dummy proofing. Let Darwinism rule the roost. But pitbull attacks are not about the people getting eaten alive being stupid. They are about an animal that has a natural disposition that allows for vicious attacks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, then what if I raise my Weimaraners to be mean and attack? Which is EXACTLY what's going to happen when Pit Bulls are banned.

 

not really. if you outlaw pit bulls, only the outlaws will have pit bulls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is no amount of dummy proofing the world that will prevent this from happening because people will always out-dummy the dummy proofing. Let Darwinism rule the roost.

 

:D darwinism? when it comes to pit bulls versus baby's faces? :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:D darwinism? when it comes to pit bulls versus baby's faces? :wacko:

 

DId you read the next sentence? That's a colossal cherry pick :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DId you read the next sentence? That's a colossal cherry pick :wacko:

There's a shock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DId you read the next sentence? That's a colossal cherry pick :wacko:

 

I know, I know. it was just too ripe not to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:wacko:

I think the solution is holding the owners highly responsible.

 

Since when do we hold individuals responsible for anything in this country. It takes a village.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)

2 Members: Hugh 0ne, detlef

 

Uh-oh. :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)

2 Members: Hugh 0ne, detlef

 

Ruh-Roh. :wacko:

 

fixed :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.