DeAngelo Williams vs Jonathan Stewart

[Bronco Billy]

I would like to add that, with all due respect, people try to take this outlook every year with rookies. The simple fact is that rookies are more often than not behind lofty expectations that get heaped on them.

 

That may be true, but I like Stewart's chances at the next level a lot. He's got good all around skills and has a very nice size/weight/speed thing going.

 

DWill is sure to cut into his workload some, so he has a ceiling his rookie year. That may not be a bad thing for dynasty owners, but it ought to drop him a bit in redraft leagues.

[Caveman_Nick]

That may be true, but I like Stewart's chances at the next level a lot. He's got good all around skills and has a very nice size/weight/speed thing going.

 

DWill is sure to cut into his workload some, so he has a ceiling his rookie year. That may not be a bad thing for dynasty owners, but it ought to drop him a bit in redraft leagues.

 

That's all I am saying....that people should temper their expectations of what they might see for production from this rookie, because he is a rookie.

[Brentastic]

Not in CAR.

Like I said in my initial post - if Fox stays consistent, DW will get the chance.

[Brentastic]

What signs would you look for that would tell you that Fox will give DW the chance?

Have you read my initial post? I'll sum it up by saying EVERYTHING Fox has done in the past in regards to playing guys with experience vs rookies says that DW will get the lion's share this season.

[Brentastic]

Past results does not predict future action.

 

I do understand that you believe you have a read on him, so... what signs in the next two weeks would lead you to believe that he'll act that way in the future?

 

eg.: maybe he gave DW plenty of TC work and started him in preseason game one -- all points leading to DW being the man, but then he started Foster in preseason game two and that was the sign that Foster was going to be the season starter. Something like that?

I have nothing current to make me think anything. My speculation is purely based on past trends which happen to be very strong from Fox. I understand that past results do not indicate future action but when there's nothing else to go on AND he has a history of identical behavior - what else are you going to base your prognostication on? I mean, IMO, it would be completely stupid to discount the guys past actions and suddenly proclaim the exact opposite unless there was a strong indication that the opposite will occur. If he came out and flat out said that Stew will be the workhorse that would be about the only thing to convince me that Stew will be the man this year. Otherwise I have no choice but to go off past actions.

[Seahawks21]

Stewart has height, weight and speed. He has good hands. Lots of guys have had these things. To be successful, these are a distant second to instincts and toughness. I'm not saying he doesn't possess these things, but he never did show a ton of toughness in college, despite being more physically gifted than almost all of the defenders in the Pac-10. People have annointed this guy to be the next big thing because of his measurables, having never watched him play a down. Scary situation.

[Bronco Billy]

People have annointed this guy to be the next big thing because of his measurables, having never watched him play a down.

 

I've seen plenty of him. He absolutely has the earmarks to succeed at the NFL level.

[detlef]

Stewart has height, weight and speed. He has good hands. Lots of guys have had these things. To be successful, these are a distant second to instincts and toughness. I'm not saying he doesn't possess these things, but he never did show a ton of toughness in college, despite being more physically gifted than almost all of the defenders in the Pac-10. People have annointed this guy to be the next big thing because of his measurables, having never watched him play a down. Scary situation.

Well, I assume you're talking about me because I'm among those who are prepared to pick him before he drops. However, make no mistake, I have no illusions that he's the 2nd coming. It's really quite simple. He seems to have physical tools and the team that coach that drafted him has made it very clear that he's been wanting to build his offense around a back with his skill set. Thus, I'm very confident that he'll get a shot.

 

So, the checklist:

1) Tools...check

2) Fits into coaches gameplan...check

3) Heart and determination...who knows?

 

Dude, the single most reliable position to take rookies at in FF is RB. Every year, a few pan out. What you're trying to find is the guys who, 1) have the physical tools and 2) Are stepping into good situations. That's really all you can do. I think he is, and will thus be picking him after veterans in their prime in good situations and before retreads or guys on bad teams. It's really not a huge leap of faith.

[Seahawks21]

Well, I assume you're talking about me because I'm among those who are prepared to pick him before he drops. However, make no mistake, I have no illusions that he's the 2nd coming. It's really quite simple. He seems to have physical tools and the team that coach that drafted him has made it very clear that he's been wanting to build his offense around a back with his skill set. Thus, I'm very confident that he'll get a shot.

 

So, the checklist:

1) Tools...check

2) Fits into coaches gameplan...check

3) Heart and determination...who knows?

 

Dude, the single most reliable position to take rookies at in FF is RB. Every year, a few pan out. What you're trying to find is the guys who, 1) have the physical tools and 2) Are stepping into good situations. That's really all you can do. I think he is, and will thus be picking him after veterans in their prime in good situations and before retreads or guys on bad teams. It's really not a huge leap of faith.

No, I certainly wasn't singling you out in any way. My reasoning doesn't have to do as much with necessarily thinking Stewart is not a good player, but I think Williams can and will be "special". The biggest reason I have been trying to be clear about the things I have seen from Stewart the past few years is because people have been saying that he is more talented and a better football player than Darren McFadden. I also agree that a handful of rookie RB's can perform very well, which is why I have McFadden in my top 10. Stewart is a good pick as well, but just make sure you get Williams. I'm just trying to inform people that Stewart is big like another local product Stephen Jackson, but their running styles are not very similar.

[tazinib1]

No, I certainly wasn't singling you out in any way. My reasoning doesn't have to do as much with necessarily thinking Stewart is not a good player, but I think Williams can and will be "special". The biggest reason I have been trying to be clear about the things I have seen from Stewart the past few years is because people have been saying that he is more talented and a better football player than Darren McFadden. I also agree that a handful of rookie RB's can perform very well, which is why I have McFadden in my top 10. Stewart is a good pick as well, but just make sure you get Williams. I'm just trying to inform people that Stewart is big like another local product Stephen Jackson, but their running styles are not very similar.

 

Now who on earth would go out on a limb and say that???

 

[PSULions]

I have Panthers season tickets and I like the moves they have made this offseason so far. Back in January, Hurney and Fox met with the Big Cat (Jerry R.) to show him their plans for the team to make it back to the playoffs this year. They had lost their way over the past few years and were not set up to be a power running team that can control the clock, like Coach Fox likes to do. In fact, if you look at the T.O.P. for each of the games last year the only game that they lost when they controlled the clock was the Indy game and the only game they won when the opponent controlled the clock was the Saints game, landing them in the middle of the pack with a 7-9 record.

 

The outcome of that meeting was that they wanted to go back to Panthers football and install an power running game that can grind out yards and make the play action more effective. Foster was never an effective power runner between the tackles so they issued him his walking papers and grabbed JStew as their newer, younger version of S. Davis. They went out traded to get Otah to start at RT, moving Wharton to LG and from out I heard after OTAs, Fonuti was running with the ones at practice, so they are getting a lot bigger on the OL to really try to run the ball more effectively this year. I think eventually JStew will take the starters job with DW being the change of pace back. Adding, Hackett and Moose is a big improvement for the WRs and Rosario has been doing very well at practice so far this year too. The offense with Delhomme at the helm will create many more problems for the defense and take pressure off the pass blocking because they should be able to mix things up better this year so the DL will not be able to pin down their ears to get after the QB as much this year. I think the return of an effective running game will make the passing game better and Steve Smith will have a very big year for the 14 games he will play in.

 

If the offense is much improved from the junk we saw last year, it can only help the defense stay fresher later in the games and help notch a few more wins this year. I think the OL will be much better this year compared to last year, but until they lace them up in September, they will likely not get many accolades from the experts because each of the 5 OL slots will be manned by a new player this year.

 

As far as the conversation about DW, he was not able to overtake Foster because of his inability to block and protect his QB usually left him as the 3rd down back. He also did get a few of his yards during 3rd and long when the Panthers playing for the punt would put it in his hands for the old "draw" play to get a few yards back before the Panthers would punt the ball away, so his numbers are a little deceiving as far as his Avg. / per carry. The good news is that he is doing much better at picking up the blitz and blocking, so he will get more opportunities if he can keep it up. That said, I truly think JStew is the guy to own as Fox and Hurney are on the hot seat as the third straight year of no playoffs will likely find Cowher taking over the Panthers in January. Fox will give the bulk of the carries to the guy that has earned it and I think that guy will be Stewart.

 

I will be at the game against the Colts on Saturday, so I will update this thread with my observations from the game.

 

The OL looked terrific last night and opened up some serious holes for DW to get through. He ended up with 9 carries, 55 yards and 2 TDs, one from 1 yard out and the other from a 9 yard rush through the middle. DW has had a good camp from what they have reported in the local paper and last night showed that he looks great. We did not get a chance to see JStew last night, but if DW keeps lighting it up like he did last night, I think DW will be the starter and JStew will have a smaller role than I had anticipated. To early to call that for sure, but I would bump up DW in the RB rankings based on a very good performance last night. The good thing is that the OL looked very good even through there were 5 new starters in each position, but the beef they added over the off season has translated nicely to a power running game that should benefit both DW and JStew.

[PSULions]

You said that DW couldn't be the starter cuz he can't block... has his blocking improved?

 

As far as the conversation about DW, he was not able to overtake Foster because of his inability to block and protect his QB usually left him as the 3rd down back. He also did get a few of his yards during 3rd and long when the Panthers playing for the punt would put it in his hands for the old "draw" play to get a few yards back before the Panthers would punt the ball away, so his numbers are a little deceiving as far as his Avg. / per carry. The good news is that he is doing much better at picking up the blitz and blocking, so he will get more opportunities if he can keep it up.

 

I did refer to this earlier, based on reports coming out from TC. I didn't get a chance to see any blocking from him last night as Jake only get a few opportunities to throw the ball because of the two early turnovers from the Colts that turned into DW TDs. He looked better than I had expected, so it could be interesting to see who is going to be getting the bulk of the carries for the Panthers. Overall the offense looked much better than last year and could help both Jake and Steve Smith if we are able to control the ball better and extend drives better this year.

[Caveman_Nick]

I think the X Factor here is definitely Delhomme. It's such a different team with him in there. It's tough to judge what the RBs did last year with who they had throwing the ball.

 

Williams could turn out to be a nice pick for guys that got him real late in drafts held early in the summer.

[Brentastic]

I think it's time that DMD bump Stewart down and Williams up. Stewart can't even practice yet because of off-season toe surgery and he's a rookie. Add to that the fact the DW has a much improved line, knows the system, had a very good showing this past weekend, and Fox's past actions of starting the guy with experience. I think this is becoming a no-brainer that DW will be the guy this year. Bank it - I just selected DW as my keeper in Any Given Sunday (B.O.T.H.) only having to forfeit my 7th round pick.

[PSULions]

I think it's time that DMD bump Stewart down and Williams up. Stewart can't even practice yet because of off-season toe surgery and he's a rookie. Add to that the fact the DW has a much improved line, knows the system, had a very good showing this past weekend, and Fox's past actions of starting the guy with experience. I think this is becoming a no-brainer that DW will be the guy this year. Bank it - I just selected DW as my keeper in Any Given Sunday (B.O.T.H.) only having to forfeit my 7th round pick.

 

DW was impressive against the Colts so I don't disagree with your statement about bumping up DW and bumping down JStew, but you are incorrect about your statement about him (JStew) practicing. He has been practicing ever since camp opened at the end of July and is showing very good promise. His toe evidently is still bothering him a little, so they decided to be cautious and kept him out of the game on Saturday. I think DW is undervalued at this point so your pick will likely bear some fruit for you, however, you should still temper your expectations as JStew will get plenty of touches this season and DW will not be a workhorse RB for the Panthers.

 

Unfortunately for us FF nuts, this RBBC committee will likely be fluid at least until the regular season starts and roles are more clearly defined by Coach Fox.

[Pope Flick]

Now who on earth would go out on a limb and say that???

 

 

 

A mouthpiece?

[detlef]

DW was impressive against the Colts so I don't disagree with your statement about bumping up DW and bumping down JStew, but you are incorrect about your statement about him (JStew) practicing. He has been practicing ever since camp opened at the end of July and is showing very good promise. His toe evidently is still bothering him a little, so they decided to be cautious and kept him out of the game on Saturday. I think DW is undervalued at this point so your pick will likely bear some fruit for you, however, you should still temper your expectations as JStew will get plenty of touches this season and DW will not be a workhorse RB for the Panthers.

 

Unfortunately for us FF nuts, this RBBC committee will likely be fluid at least until the regular season starts and roles are more clearly defined by Coach Fox.

+1 The local papers have mentioned that the D is very impressed with Stewart's power and burst, so he's obviously both been practicing and impressing. The issue, it seems, is discomfort due to a build up of scar tissue and is nothing that anyone seems concerned about. Obviously DW isn't hurting his case by looking good in preseason action, but the Panthers make it pretty clear they have big plans for the kid this year.

[Randall]

Now who on earth would go out on a limb and say that???

 

 

 

Promoting the 2nd RB taken is a hugh tree trunk not a limb.

[Seahawks21]

I'm sorry, I really can't remember where I heard this, most likely on ESPN radio, but they were saying that Stewart most likely will have pain in the foot all season. Good way to start a career

[Brentastic]

DW was impressive against the Colts so I don't disagree with your statement about bumping up DW and bumping down JStew, but you are incorrect about your statement about him (JStew) practicing. He has been practicing ever since camp opened at the end of July and is showing very good promise. His toe evidently is still bothering him a little, so they decided to be cautious and kept him out of the game on Saturday. I think DW is undervalued at this point so your pick will likely bear some fruit for you, however, you should still temper your expectations as JStew will get plenty of touches this season and DW will not be a workhorse RB for the Panthers.

 

Unfortunately for us FF nuts, this RBBC committee will likely be fluid at least until the regular season starts and roles are more clearly defined by Coach Fox.

Thanks for the clarification. However, I don't think having a toe injury that will/might linger all year is a good thing. Until JStew proves he is healthy and able to run without pain, I can't see him getting many carries. Why would the team want to push it with their injured rookie. I think we all know how turf toe (or a bad toe) can affect fantasy performance.

[chinatown dragons]

That toe injury is a concern..I remember a few years back having Chris Brown of the Titans......each week, waiting to see if he played and for how long.......that being said, I was high on snagging Stewart this year, but if he doesn't get into a pre season game this year, may have to let someone else take a chance on him and I;'ll go for Smith or Forte for a rookie back..

[kingfish247]

Why the need to go for a rookie back? Why not just take the best back available?

Taking a rookie RB is a pretty decent strategy. I tend to try to take at least one every year in a redraft for a few reasons...

 

1) rook's situation/evaluation (ie. is the rook likely to start, pieces around him, is he good enough to be a decent NFL starter etc.)

2) the fresh wheels

3) relative value (you usually don't have to draft a rookie RB in the first few rounds of a redraft).

 

If all those things come together for the rookie you target, it pays dividends towards a successful FF season.

[Wizards]

IMO Fox will give Williams the same chance as Foster....believe the think tank drafted Stewart as they knew Foster was on the first train out of Charllotte and needed another back....believe RBBC will only take effect if Williams can't get it done....remember last year Delhomme was hurt....maybe DW was lacking in pass protection, but he shouldn't take all the blame..the offensive line allowed their QB to be sacked 1 in every 15 or so plays...defenses bunched the line in different blitz packages after the QB once Delhomme went down...this might have a little bit to do with DW having problems with protection....study different blitz packages and pass protection improvements and Delhomme returning to form I see no reason Williams can't be the main go to RB in Carolin..he has the rushing ability in my mind to be successful.....Stewart will probably see some goal line carries and 3rd and short....DW is developing like one other player did in the NFL that nobody thought could be the man...Brian Westbrook....DW can avoid the injury bug and pick up blitzes and pass protect...Fox will give him more chance than you might believe...you heard it here.

[tazinib1]

IMO Fox will give Williams the same chance as Foster....believe the think tank drafted Stewart as they knew Foster was on the first train out of Charllotte and needed another back....believe RBBC will only take effect if Williams can't get it done....remember last year Delhomme was hurt....maybe DW was lacking in pass protection, but he shouldn't take all the blame..the offensive line allowed their QB to be sacked 1 in every 15 or so plays...defenses bunched the line in different blitz packages after the QB once Delhomme went down...this might have a little bit to do with DW having problems with protection....study different blitz packages and pass protection improvements and Delhomme returning to form I see no reason Williams can't be the main go to RB in Carolin..he has the rushing ability in my mind to be successful.....Stewart will probably see some goal line carries and 3rd and short....DW is developing like one other player did in the NFL that nobody thought could be the man...Brian Westbrook....DW can avoid the injury bug and pick up blitzes and pass protect...Fox will give him more chance than you might believe...you heard it here.

 

[Brentastic]

Just you wait and see - DWill is going to be very good this year. Draft him and thank me at the end of the season. Unless DWill gets hurt, Stewart will not be a fantasy factor this season (IMHO).