Who's to say

[Robash]

Utah is the only one guaranteed a birth.

 

please look at my thread "bowl questions" sportsline says otherwise...

[theeohiostate]

please look at my thread "bowl questions" sportsline says otherwise...

 

 

 

Boise St and others are only eligible for an at large bid. Utah gets the auto bid because they are the highest ranked Non-BCS school with a BCS ranking of #10 or higher. Even though Boise St is also ranked inside the top 10 , the BCS only guarantees one spot to a NON-BCS team . Boise St would have to be chosen by the Fiesta Bowl committee over the likes of OSU , which is possible but improbable.

[Ziachild007]

I was thinking about this today........IF Florida were to lose to Bama, would they fall out of the BCS Bowls at 11-2? It might be stupid for thinking this way, but I would much rather Tech play UF than Ole Miss.

[SLAYER]

I was thinking about this today........IF Florida were to lose to Bama, would they fall out of the BCS Bowls at 11-2? It might be stupid for thinking this way, but I would much rather Tech play UF than Ole Miss.

If Florida loses to Bama they will go to the Sugar.

[BS Miscreant]

After looking at this again.

 

In the Harris poll, FLA can only move up 1 spot, Texas also moves up 1 spot when Bama falls behind them both. So that is a push to today, they both move up only 1 spot.. This is actually not where FLA can gain ground, its the other poll this is possible. But there is just one problem, Mack Brown will have a say in this poll. The computers will likely move OU to #1 in all of them, and Texas will still hold a sizable lead in the computers over FLA.

 

So I agree its unlikely FLA wins and doesnt move up in the BCS, its extremely possible.

Yes, they can only move up one in the Harris but it's not the ranking that matters so much rather their "%" based on total points alotted them in the voting process. Bama currently has a hugh lead by virtue of the fact that they earned 107 of the possible 114 1st place votes. Florida already has 4 of the other 7. They gain much more than just one point in the ranking, they gain a significant number of the votes and points that Bama currently stakes claim to and this is what really matters. In the USA Today/Coaches poll, as you mentioned, they stand to gain significant ground for obvious reasons. And something I just discovered that I found very interesting... UF dropped in points in both the Harris and Coaches from last week to this and still gained ground in "BCS AVG". Imagine what gaining points, which will undoubtedly happen, will do to that "BCS AVG".

 

And of course there are the computers. You mentioned something in the following argument you made to TOS that just solidfies my belief that the Gators will climb significantly.

Week 13, last week. - November 23

 

...the Computers

 

Texas - 23 23 25 24 25 24 .960

Oklahoma - 22 24 21 25 22 22 .900

 

...................................

 

Lets move onto Week 14, this week. - November 30

 

 

Computers

Oklahoma[/b] - 22 24 24 25 25 25 .980

Texas - 23 22 25 23 24 24 .940

Texas won, abeit over a bad team, OU beat the then #12/now #14 team in the country and look how the points moved. All the while UF beat a barely top 20 team and moved from .780 to .820. This week Texas does not get the opportunity to earn points by beating someone, OU will beat a team barely in the top 20 and UF beats unbeaten/#1 Alabama. Take it easy Tide fans this is still hypothetical. This scenario not only gains points for the Gators but eats into UT's at the same time. UF do not have to gain the whole .120 They likely will only need the .40 they earned last week or slightly better to tighten this thing up. Even if this computer scenario does not bring the Gators even or put them ahead, it will most certainly get them close enough that their leads in the polls will get them through.

[theeohiostate]

So why are you fine with Texas Tech being ranked behind Texas? They beat them straight up.

 

 

I have never stated I was fine with Tech being ranked over Texas. I was only saying OU doesn't deserve to be ranked over a team they lost H2H on neutral field 45-35 .

[theeohiostate]

Anyone saying Florida ain't gonna make the dance with a win over Bama, doesn't know much about College Football.

 

 

You can throw the polls and BCS standings out the window after this week. The coaches and voters in the Harris Poll tried to turn around their previous bad position by putting Texas ahead of OU. Without question, if Florida beats Bama, Florida will leap Texas and OU to the top spot in both the coaches and Harris poll. There isn't a person alive, all homers aside, that wants to see two defenseless teams play field track in January. It's time to allow a solid defense to flex it's muscle against an overachieving offense.

Edited December 2, 2008 by theeohiostate

[Sgt Ryan]

Anyone saying Florida ain't gonna make the dance with a win over Bama, doesn't know much about College Football.

 

 

You can throw the polls and BCS standings out the window after this week. The coaches and voters in the Harris Poll tried to turn around their previous bad position by putting Texas ahead of OU. Without question, if Florida beats Bama, Florida will leap Texas and OU to the top spot in both the coaches and Harris poll. There isn't a person alive, all homers aside, that wants to see two defenseless teams play field track in January. It's time to allow a solid defense to flex it's muscle against an overachieving offense.

 

 

LMAO, Will FLA jump OU and Texas in the USA today poll too Mikey?

 

What about the computers, do they even matter when the other team is higher in both polls?

 

 

OWNED and OWNED.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Sgt Ryan

[detlef]

I have never stated I was fine with Tech being ranked over Texas. I was only saying OU doesn't deserve to be ranked over a team they lost H2H on neutral field 45-35 .

You're totally missing the point. You can't be up in arms about UT being behind OU because of H2H without also feeling that Tech is being hosed by not being rated ahead of UT. However, if both those were fixed, then OU would, by default be behind Tech which would be another outrage still.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

You're totally missing the point. You can't be up in arms about UT being behind OU because of H2H without also feeling that Tech is being hosed by not being rated ahead of UT. However, if both those were fixed, then OU would, by default be behind Tech which would be another outrage still.

 

Well the Texas argument is that, they beat Oklahoma on a "neutral" field (I know Oklahoma fans argue that it isn't neutral, but the stadium is split half and half during the game, it's certainly more neutral that some bowl games you get). They lost to Texas Tech at the buzzer in Lubbock. Oklahoma made Texas Tech look like a high school team in Norman. Texas says, you play that TTU game anywhere but Lubbock, Texas, and Texas wins (the 9/10 times argument). Factor in the H2H win, and Texas feels they deserve to be there. At the end of the day, simply making the most basic of interceptions, or even simply making a basic fundamental tackle on Michael Crabtree is what the Longhorns doom came down too.

 

Bottom line out of all of this, is one of these teams was going to get screwed. It's unfortunate, but what are we supposed to do. Both teams have very valid arguments. As for Texas Tech, you get a 60 spot put on you, you deserve nothing more than a ticket to Dallas, Texas on New Years Day.

[Rockerbraves]

Wonder how many other Sooner fans feel this way?

 

<This could have easily gone the other way, given which ever Big12 team is doing well. ">

 

ARE YOU INSANE? MAD? The point is it SHOULDN'T have gone either way. I'm a Sooner lover, but I think our position is unethical. It came down to two even teams (b/c everything else is relatively equal), except they beat us. Yet we get in on a technicality???

 

Like I said, there is no moral position for us in this. We are being looked upon with great disfavor across the nation. While most of the wrath is on the stupid Big 12 tiebreaker system, we are experiencing its wrath! This is a bad PR hit for the program.

William - Dec 1, 2008 4:12 PM

[Ziachild007]

As for Texas Tech, you get a 60 spot put on you, you deserve nothing more than a ticket to Dallas, Texas on New Years Day.

 

[detlef]

Well the Texas argument is that, they beat Oklahoma on a "neutral" field (I know Oklahoma fans argue that it isn't neutral, but the stadium is split half and half during the game, it's certainly more neutral that some bowl games you get). They lost to Texas Tech at the buzzer in Lubbock. Oklahoma made Texas Tech look like a high school team in Norman. Texas says, you play that TTU game anywhere but Lubbock, Texas, and Texas wins (the 9/10 times argument). Factor in the H2H win, and Texas feels they deserve to be there. At the end of the day, simply making the most basic of interceptions, or even simply making a basic fundamental tackle on Michael Crabtree is what the Longhorns doom came down too.

 

Bottom line out of all of this, is one of these teams was going to get screwed. It's unfortunate, but what are we supposed to do. Both teams have very valid arguments. As for Texas Tech, you get a 60 spot put on you, you deserve nothing more than a ticket to Dallas, Texas on New Years Day.

The problem with that whole line of reasoning is that it makes a big deal out of one H2H, disregards another, then brings up intangibles like neutral field/home field and disregards others like overall body of work and dominating victories against good opponents.

 

I'm not saying UT doesn't have a claim or an argument. I'm simply saying that it is no better than OU's. In fact, I would argue that it is not as good (all be it barely). That's where TOSU and I differ. His stance appears to be that UT is getting 100% shafted and there's simply no plausible reason why OU should get in over them. I'm more inclined to think that nobody is getting shafted per se. The system sucks and it is unfortunate that it has come down to it. However, in light of the circular H2H2H, you can't just jump up and down yelling UT beat OU end of story. It's just not that simple.

[Ziachild007]

The problem with that whole line of reasoning is that it makes a big deal out of one H2H, disregards another, then brings up intangibles like neutral field/home field and disregards others like overall body of work and dominating victories against good opponents.

 

I'm not saying UT doesn't have a claim or an argument. I'm simply saying that it is no better than OU's. In fact, I would argue that it is not as good (all be it barely). That's where TOSU and I differ. His stance appears to be that UT is getting 100% shafted and there's simply no plausible reason why OU should get in over them. I'm more inclined to think that nobody is getting shafted per se. The system sucks and it is unfortunate that it has come down to it. However, in light of the circular H2H2H, you can't just jump up and down yelling UT beat OU end of story. It's just not that simple.

 

Perfect!

[theeohiostate]

OWNED and OWNED.

 

 

owned ? LMFAO

 

Yes, OU will be jumped by Florida in every poll. In addition they beat OU by a minimum of 10 points.

 

Florida is MUCH better then WVA and Boise St.

[theeohiostate]

Wonder how many other Sooner fans feel this way?

 

<This could have easily gone the other way, given which ever Big12 team is doing well. ">

 

ARE YOU INSANE? MAD? The point is it SHOULDN'T have gone either way. I'm a Sooner lover, but I think our position is unethical. It came down to two even teams (b/c everything else is relatively equal), except they beat us. Yet we get in on a technicality???

 

Like I said, there is no moral position for us in this. We are being looked upon with great disfavor across the nation. While most of the wrath is on the stupid Big 12 tiebreaker system, we are experiencing its wrath! This is a bad PR hit for the program.

William - Dec 1, 2008 4:12 PM

 

 

 

That seems like a very rational OU fan, too bad we're left with the arse end of the cow meat here.

[Sgt Ryan]

This sums it up for me.

 

 

Everyone wants to just dismiss Techs win over Texas. But had OU lost to Okie St, Tech would be going over Texas. So that H2H win would matter in that situation. Same thing had Tech lost to Baylor, that H2H matchup with Texas and OU would have mattered. But neither happened, and in a 3 way tie when each team is 1-1 against the other 2, H2H is irrelevant. So we use something else to determine who is superior. In those games against common opponents, OU was more dominate. In the 3 games OU, Texas and Tech. OUs margin of victory was greater, they scored the most points and gave up the fewest points. OU played a stronger schedule. OU was the only one of the 3 who won a road game vs a ranked opponent, #12 Okie St just this last week, and OU beat Okie St by 20, in Stillwater, where Texas barely survived by 4 in Austin. SOS is why OU leads in the computers. Every win is accounted for, as is every loss. And OUs SOS is dominate to Texas, and that along with the lead in the Coached poll is the reason OU is going to the Big 12 Championship game. Even with Mack Brown getting a vote and Bob Stoops not getting a vote, the coaches thought OU was the better team. Does anyone think if Stoops also got a vote, the margin wouldnt be 20+ more than it was.

[detlef]

This sums it up for me.

 

 

Everyone wants to just dismiss Techs win over Texas. But had OU lost to Okie St, Tech would be going over Texas. So that H2H win would matter in that situation. Same thing had Tech lost to Baylor, that H2H matchup with Texas and OU would have mattered. But neither happened, and in a 3 way tie when each team is 1-1 against the other 2, H2H is irrelevant. So we use something else to determine who is superior. In those games against common opponents, OU was more dominate. In the 3 games OU, Texas and Tech. OUs margin of victory was greater, they scored the most points and gave up the fewest points. OU played a stronger schedule. OU was the only one of the 3 who won a road game vs a ranked opponent, #12 Okie St just this last week, and OU beat Okie St by 20, in Stillwater, where Texas barely survived by 4 in Austin. SOS is why OU leads in the computers. Every win is accounted for, as is every loss. And OUs SOS is dominate to Texas, and that along with the lead in the Coached poll is the reason OU is going to the Big 12 Championship game. Even with Mack Brown getting a vote and Bob Stoops not getting a vote, the coaches thought OU was the better team. Does anyone think if Stoops also got a vote, the margin wouldnt be 20+ more than it was.

Precisely.

 

Listen, I've taken as many shots at OU as pretty much anyone here, so this has absolutely nothing to do with homerism. It just makes sense. That isn't say that UT doesn't have a limb to stand on here, just not a strong a one as OU. At least in the opinion of this impartial observer.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

I believe I was one of the first to say, that there really should be no argument here. Big 12 made the tiebreaker rule, all 12 teams agreed to it. To me, it's open and shut. Does Texas have a good argument? Sure. But it doesn't matter. Does Oklahoma have a valid argument. Absolutely. They played a tougher schedule, won a tough (albeit overrated) Oklahoma State team on the road. Texas has no major road wins on their resume.

[theeohiostate]

I believe I was one of the first to say, that there really should be no argument here. Big 12 made the tiebreaker rule, all 12 teams agreed to it. To me, it's open and shut. Does Texas have a good argument? Sure. But it doesn't matter. Does Oklahoma have a valid argument. Absolutely. They played a tougher schedule, won a tough (albeit overrated) Oklahoma State team on the road. Texas has no major road wins on their resume.

 

 

 

This isn't about the Big 12 rules or anyone being shafted and crying about it. It's about the fact that the coaches and Harris Poll voters flip flopped in a large movement towards Texas, because they saw an injustice coming. They realized H2H was more important. It all came down to a software gliche that didn't even consider the two teams H2H when ranking them for the last BCS Standings report before conference finals were announced. If there was any reason in the software Texas would have been ranked way out in front, like the huge swing we saw in the human polls.

[Sgt Ryan]

This isn't about the Big 12 rules or anyone being shafted and crying about it. It's about the fact that the coaches and Harris Poll voters flip flopped in a large movement towards Texas, because they saw an injustice coming. They realized H2H was more important. It all came down to a software gliche that didn't even consider the two teams H2H when ranking them for the last BCS Standings report before conference finals were announced. If there was any reason in the software Texas would have been ranked way out in front, like the huge swing we saw in the human polls.

 

 

ESPN Radio today had BCS guru Jerry Palm on the air and he stated why there was so much movement in the polls this week, when OU beat a top 12 team on the road by 20 and Texas crushed the cellar dweller in the Big 12 south. . Basically the pollsters were asked to help break the tie in the Big 12, which changed the way they would normally vote. He also said this is one of the reasons why Texas has no chance to pass FLA if FLA beats Bama in the SEC Champ Game. Basically those votes for Texas were changed to break a tie, and next week, the voters will be asked again to vote how they would rank the teams. Many will have OU ahead of Texas, even those who changed their vote to Texas this past week. So OU and FLA if they win out will take votes from Texas, opening up such a huge gap in the polls, even if the computers still favored Texas, they have no shot at advancing.

[detlef]

ESPN Radio today had BCS guru Jerry Palm on the air and he stated why there was so much movement in the polls this week, when OU beat a top 12 team on the road by 20 and Texas crushed the cellar dweller in the Big 12 south. . Basically the pollsters were asked to help break the tie in the Big 12, which changed the way they would normally vote. He also said this is one of the reasons why Texas has no chance to pass FLA if FLA beats Bama in the SEC Champ Game. Basically those votes for Texas were changed to break a tie, and next week, the voters will be asked again to vote how they would rank the teams. Many will have OU ahead of Texas, even those who changed their vote to Texas this past week. So OU and FLA if they win out will take votes from Texas, opening up such a huge gap in the polls, even if the computers still favored Texas, they have no shot at advancing.

If that's true, then D-1 college ball has just barely more credibility than pro wrestling and nearly as much as figure skating. Well, that's not fair, half of D-1 actually has a play-off, so they're not a farce.

[Sgt Ryan]

This isn't about the Big 12 rules or anyone being shafted and crying about it. It's about the fact that the coaches and Harris Poll voters flip flopped in a large movement towards Texas, because they saw an injustice coming. They realized H2H was more important. It all came down to a software gliche that didn't even consider the two teams H2H when ranking them for the last BCS Standings report before conference finals were announced. If there was any reason in the software Texas would have been ranked way out in front, like the huge swing we saw in the human polls.

 

 

Where do you come up with this crap. There wasnt a software glitch with the computers. And every game counts, wins and loses. And I explained why the polls changed so much this week, and it was because the pollsters were asked to break a tie in the Big 12, not vote how they rank the teams 1-25. Watch the same voters who had OU ahead of Texas last week, and changed their vote to Texas this week, change that vote back next week to OU if they win.

[Sgt Ryan]

If that's true, then D-1 college ball has just barely more credibility than pro wrestling and nearly as much as figure skating. Well, that's not fair, half of D-1 actually has a play-off, so they're not a farce.

 

 

I agree. It is a joke. And this wasnt how the Big 12 planned on the BCS solving their tie. It was suppose to be a normal BCS ranking that determined the vote. OU should have had a huge lead this past week, and FLA should have passed Texas in this last BCS, on any normal week. But because of this, Texas numbers were inflated in this weeks BCS, that will be deflated considerably in next weeks BCS. In fact there is worry that if OU loses, SC would even pass Texas, when FLA takes back all those inflated votes they lost to Texas.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

If you look at overall body of work, there is no possible way the computers could have Texas ahead of Oklahoma. So I will have to respectfully disagree with you about a glitch. If Texas was robbed by anyone, it was in the human polls. In overall average, Texas was barely ahead of Oklahoma, in the computers Oklahoma was significantly (enough) ahead of Texas. Again, if you just take the raw numbers, vs the teams played, and factor in the fact that Oklahoma has a quality road win, and Texas doesn't, then you can clearly see that any computer would have OU higher.