polksalet Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 If you want a gun that is just cool check out this article on new lever gun tech. http://www.gunsandhunting.com/3030.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 http://www.chuckhawks.com/ideal_deer_cartridges.htm http://www.chuckhawks.com/deer_rifle.htm http://longrangehunting.com/articles/long-range-rig.php Good info. I like this one: http://www.chuckhawks.com/all_around_cartridges.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 The .308 is probably the best choice for your needs. It is a smaller cartridge and tends to be a little more accurate than the '06, but accuracy has more to do with individual rfiles. I have to add, do consider getting a rimfire. I had a blast today with my .17 HMR. I took my son and his friend shooting and we burned 300 HMR rounds. Even the kids were smacking empty shotshells at 100 yards. We also burned 750 shotshells - 3 freakin' cases. 6 cases of clays. Fun stuff though, awesome way to spend a sunny afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 The .308 is probably the best choice for your needs. It is a smaller cartridge and tends to be a little more accurate than the '06, but accuracy has more to do with individual rfiles. but more to do with relative cartridge effiency. The 308 was pretty much the original short magnum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Of course he could always opt for the 338 Excalibur. It seems like a practical round. http://a-squareco.com/.338_Excal_250_gr_Nospart.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 For others, this looks pretty helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Do not underestimate the 308's power. I have shoot close to a dozen deer with it and only one made it out of his tracks. He made it less than 10 feet. I wouldn't hesitate to take a mosse with it at under a quarter of a mile. It is an extreme little round. I can also personally attest that a well placed shot from a .308 will drop an elk in its tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 (edited) I can also personally attest that a well placed shot from a .308 will drop an elk in its tracks. Earlier this year I started hanging out with a buddy who got me back into guns. I have been hunting exclusively with a 110 in 308 since 1990. I would aim, pull the trigger, gun would go bang, and the deer would fall over. Well he convinced me I needed to upgrade my ballistics. I looked at al kinds of guns and even thought about putting my 7mag back into operation. The more I looked however the more it became obvious that the 308 is the perfect deer rifle for people who know they shouldn't shoot deer at over 400 yards. So now I am once again satisfied but I am going to put a better stock on it and add an adjustable trigger. I figure these mods will keep this gun going the rest of mine and Jr.'s lives. I will be hunting a 31 acre tract this year with some houses in the vicinity so I am looking at hard in getting a 45-70 or 44 mag for saftey's sake. Of course I could just be extra cautious with the 308 but I wouldn't be able to justify a new gun purchase, would I Edited March 15, 2009 by polksalet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 If you want a gun that is just cool check out this article on new lever gun tech. http://www.gunsandhunting.com/3030.html Thanks for the link. I recently bought my daughter a .30-30 lever gun, and I will look into that ammo some more. BTW, the daughter shot her new gun the first time on Thursday. The joy she got out of it and the look on her face was worth every penny I spent on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 heading out to buy a Pro Hunter today with a 300 and 243 barrels ... gotta get me some guns before they take them all away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Earlier this year I started hanging out with a buddy who got me back into guns. I have been hunting exclusively with a 110 in 308 since 1990. I would aim, pull the trigger, gun would go bang, and the deer would fall over. Well he convinced me I needed to upgrade my ballistics. I looked at al kinds of guns and even thought about putting my 7mag back into operation. The more I looked however the more it became obvious that the 308 is the perfect deer rifle for people who know they shouldn't shoot deer at over 400 yards. So now I am once again satisfied but I am going to put a better stock on it and add an adjustable trigger. I figure these mods will keep this gun going the rest of mine and Jr.'s lives. I will be hunting a 31 acre tract this year with some houses in the vicinity so I am looking at hard in getting a 45-70 or 44 mag for saftey's sake. Of course I could just be extra cautious with the 308 but I wouldn't be able to justify a new gun purchase, would I Why don't you just have Bill hook you up with a real rifle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Why don't you just have Bill hook you up with a real rifle? I'm going to some day when I can afford it. Unfortunately Bill's idea of a "real" rifle is currently out of my price range. I asked him how much a decent one would cost and he said I might find a decent one for a grand. I can buy 4 handi rifles for that price hahaha. He is a funny guy and as legit as they come. I told him I was going Kodiak hunting in a few years and was looking into borrowing a 577 t-rex. He just shook his head and said I'd be better of with a 70 cal round ball in front of 95 grains of black powder. Reckon that might kill something?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I'm going to some day when I can afford it. Unfortunately Bill's idea of a "real" rifle is currently out of my price range. I asked him how much a decent one would cost and he said I might find a decent one for a grand. I can buy 4 handi rifles for that price hahaha. He is a funny guy and as legit as they come. I told him I was going Kodiak hunting in a few years and was looking into borrowing a 577 t-rex. He just shook his head and said I'd be better of with a 70 cal round ball in front of 95 grains of black powder. Reckon that might kill something?? I know where you're coming from. I would have trouble coughing up the money for most of the "Prime Possibles" that Bill writes about every issue even though they are really nice pieces of equipment. If you're seriously interested in black powder, you can get a Lyman Great Plains Rifle for under $450 that will shoot better than most people's ability at 100 yards with open sights. There are plenty of other decent factory guns out there, too. PM or Facebook me if you have specific questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Went to Bass Pro Shops today to look around... The old guy behind the counter said that guns will be 10-40% off in August before the season opens; he encouraged me to hold off until then (which I thought was a little odd). He also said that ammo prices are up 82% since November. Finally, he said that using a 30-.06 would destroy anything smaller than a deer (i.e., shoot a rabbit and you may find some fur, but no meat) and a 308 wouldn't be much better. He encouraged me to look at a .243 instead. Again, the focus is on function / accuracy / versatility...any specific suggestions on one or two (or five) rifles I should be looking at (not hunting bear or elk any time soon)...in addition to a Ruger .22 (which I should be able to buy pretty easily at a gun show for a pretty reasonable price, I'd think)... Next, I may have convinced myself to get at least one pistol. I'm a big guy, so am inclined to get a bigger pistol (45 / 44 mag / etc) ... plus maybe a smaller conceal/carry. The old guys said to focus on Ruger and Smith/Wesson. Any specific suggestions? Finally, budget ... used .22 (with scope?) ... new (or gently used) .243 / 308 / .270 / 30-/06 ... scope for deer rifle ... pistol ... conceal/carry pistol ... ammo for each ... makes me think that the c/c pistol should have the same caliber as the deer rifle or the non-c/c pistol ... Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Thoughts? Go with the .45. Good man stopper. slow, heavy bullets will not ricochet like small, light bullets will, and a .45 will not penetrate barriers like some smaller and lighter calibers will. And it's been around forever, so ammo is always in good supply. some will preach 1911. I have one. It shoots nice. Nothing wrong with this choice. Some will preach glock. Reliable and cost effective. Nothing wrong with this choice. I would suggest taking a serious look at the HK45 and HK45c. Top notch pistols, well made and incredibly reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 heading out to buy a Pro Hunter today with a 300 and 243 barrels ... gotta get me some guns before they take them all away. The 30 is rallying in on the target. Wife didn't like the kick so much compared to 1120. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) Went to Bass Pro Shops today to look around... The old guy behind the counter said that guns will be 10-40% off in August before the season opens; he encouraged me to hold off until then (which I thought was a little odd). Gun prices may go down slightly before hunting season, but I doubt by that much. He's probably basing this on his expeience in past years. With the current scarcity of new guns, I doubt the buying frenzy will be over by fall. He also said that ammo prices are up 82% since November. That's about right. Finally, he said that using a 30-.06 would destroy anything smaller than a deer (i.e., shoot a rabbit and you may find some fur, but no meat) and a 308 wouldn't be much better. He encouraged me to look at a .243 instead. I don't follow his logic here. The .243 shoots a smaller bullet at high velocity and would likely do more damage to small game because of the bullets' lighter construction. A centerfire rifle is just all wrong for taking small game you intend to eat. Again, the focus is on function / accuracy / versatility...any specific suggestions on one or two (or five) rifles I should be looking at (not hunting bear or elk any time soon)...in addition to a Ruger .22 (which I should be able to buy pretty easily at a gun show for a pretty reasonable price, I'd think)... Stick with a bolt rifle from Remington 700, Winchester 70, Browning A-Bolt, Weatherby Vanguard, Ruger M77, Sako or Savage. I think a .308 is right down your alley, but something like a .270 Winchester, .280 Remington, 30-06 Springfield or 7mm Rem Mag would suit you fine. I don't think you need a magnum, but the 7mm is a sweet shooter (very flat trajectory and inherent accuracy) that is not punishing to shoot. Stick with the Ruger .22 rifle or carbine and you won't need to worry about your centerfire rig being too much. Next, I may have convinced myself to get at least one pistol. I'm a big guy, so am inclined to get a bigger pistol (45 / 44 mag / etc) ... plus maybe a smaller conceal/carry. The old guys said to focus on Ruger and Smith/Wesson. Any specific suggestions? This gets tougher than the rifle question. If you want a hunting pistol, a .44 mag is a nice starting point. It's a bit much for most guys to do a lot of target shooting with, but you can shoot the more tame .44 special loads out of a .44 magnum. Perch recently bought a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull. It's OK for everything up to and including grizzly bear. You can shoot .45 long colt out of the .454, which Perch is doing already. Sticking with Ruger and Smith and Wesson is not bad advice, but there are other nice pistols on the market. I really like the Ruger because it is built so stoutly. Most reloading manuals have "Ruger only" loads because they can handle higher case pressures because of their build. Smiths tend to have a nicer finish and better trigger than Rugers, but you pay a premium for it - up to double for a comparable model. I buy Rugers and take 'em to a gunsmith if I'm not satisfied with the trigger. A nice .357 revolver is nice pistol to have. Ruger makes a model that comes with 2 cylinders - one for .357 mag/.38 special and one for 9mm. If you want something small for concealed carry, consider a 1911 in .45 ACP (by far the most common caliber for the 1911) for your larger pistol. I am very biased toward the 1911, as miillions of others are. When you get close to picking a concealed carry gun, give me a shout with the details on what you want. There are dozens of options out there and I know about most of them. The small Glocks would be a good starting point for you if you're convinced you want a smallish carry gun. Finally, budget ... used .22 (with scope?) ... new (or gently used) .243 / 308 / .270 / 30-/06 ... scope for deer rifle ... pistol ... conceal/carry pistol ... ammo for each ... makes me think that the c/c pistol should have the same caliber as the deer rifle or the non-c/c pistol ... You should be able to find a good used Ruger 10/22 with a 4x scope for $200, maybe $175. Centerfire rifles vary widely in cost. A new rifle in the makes I listed above will run $300 (for the Savage only) well into 4 figures for the higher end Weatherby's and Sakos. The Remington, Winchester, Browning, Ruger level will bring you in around $700-800 for many models. You can get nice used rifles for a pretty good deal right now. Lots of folks are having a hard time making ends meet and are selling their toys to cover costs. Here is a local site that will give you an idea of what to expect to pay for a used rifle. These guns tend to go for 10-15% less than the asking price - locally anyway. You can get a POS scope for a deer rifle for $79-200. I'd spend at least $350 for a Nikon Bushmaster or Bushnell Elite. Actually, I would not buy those at all, but they'd be servicable. I'd go with one of these if you have the budget. They're very clear, very tough scopes with a lifetime warranty. I really don't know where to start on the pistol advice. What will you use the larger pistol for? What are your criteria for a concealed weapon? It's not likely you'll end up with either pistol in a caliber of your centerfire gun. They exist, but they are single shot hand cannons that have little use outside the range and limited hunting scenarios. For concealed carry ammo, I like Hornady's TAP ammo. Winchester Ranger SXT, Gold Dots, Rem Golden Sabers and Federal Hydrashoks are also considered to be pretty good. There is a plethora of centerfire rifle ammo to chose from - theoretically anyway. Just about any of it will work for general hunting. I like to shoot BTSP (boat-tail soft points). They buck the wind pretty well, are very accurate and deliver good performance on game. You can get into the fancy bonded bullets, moly coatings and all sorts of jazz - but there's no need, IMO. Even cheaper factory ammo is remarkably good these days. A decent rifle will throw even cheap ammo into 3" at 100 yards - acceptable hunting accuracy in most books. Thoughts? Again, let me know more specifics about the intended purposes of the pistols you want and I can try to steer you in the right direction. Edited March 22, 2009 by Jimmy Neutron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Object 1: Shoot food. Object 2: Protect family / self. Object 3: Low cost. ... Object 572: Look good doing it. ............................................. Essentially, I don't know what I'm asking for help with ... other than something sorta like this: I already have a 12ga Benelli SBE II and a 12ga Remington Marine Magnum (family protection; will sell / trade), plus a few boxes of shells, but nothing noteworthy, though. If you had a couple grand to spend on guns / scopes, plus a healthy stockpile of ammo (in case ammo taxes go through the roof under Obama) for the following objectives, what would you get to cover the following: Deer, possibly pig, not sure about antelope (probably no elk ever): * I've heard anything from a .243 to a 30-.06 in size; need ammo, too Rabbit and then any varmint I don't want on my property (i.e., mole, groundhog, coyote, etc) and target practice: * Possibly add a .22 for target practice and small varmints (rabbit, etc). Goose, pheasant, quail, turkey, personal protection: * Already own the gun; need more ammo Pistol (protection and possible hunting): * Possibly a 'big' pistol, plus ammo (plus sight?) * Possibly a 'conceal / carry' pistol, plus ammo ...I figure I can layer in some good clothes, etc. via birthday gift cards, etc. over time...no need to buy that stuff now (unless you guys tell me otherwise)... ...how would you prioritize the list (i.e., does a .22 come before or after a pistol (or two)?)... Thanks for helping me put together my shopping list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Muck, listen to Jimmy he knows his chit. I would add the .270 WSM as a caliber to look at, though the ammo is slightly higher than some of the others listed. Last October I bought a Browning X-Bolt in .270 WSM and put a Leupold VX-III with a 4.5x14 50mm with a Boone and Crocket Reticle, and absolutely love it. Another gun you might look at is a .30-30 lever gun. I recently bought one for my daughter (that's my story and I'm sticking with it), and it is fun and relatively cheap to shoot. It doesn't have much recoil, so you could let your kids shoot it as well. While not overly powerfull, I wouldn't have any problems taking a shot at deer at 200 yards with one. I doubt you will find a gun that you can shoulder and sight any faster than an old Winchester 94. And Jimmy I hunt with the 454 rounds I play with the .45 LC, though I did shoot a few 454's yesterday. I really like my Ruger Super Redhawk, it is a fun gun. Now I just need to talk the wife into parting with enough cheese to get my 1911. I was fondling a Springfield Loaded and a Kimber Custom II friday afternoon. I liked the Springfield a little bit better, it just seemed to fit my hand better and I liked the trigger a bit better as well. I have a few more pistols to caress before I make my final decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Object 1: Shoot food.Object 2: Protect family / self. Object 3: Low cost. ... Object 572: Look good doing it. ............................................. Essentially, I don't know what I'm asking for help with ... other than something sorta like this: I already have a 12ga Benelli SBE II and a 12ga Remington Marine Magnum (family protection; will sell / trade), plus a few boxes of shells, but nothing noteworthy, though. If you had a couple grand to spend on guns / scopes, plus a healthy stockpile of ammo (in case ammo taxes go through the roof under Obama) for the following objectives, what would you get to cover the following: Deer, possibly pig, not sure about antelope (probably no elk ever): * I've heard anything from a .243 to a 30-.06 in size; need ammo, too Rabbit and then any varmint I don't want on my property (i.e., mole, groundhog, coyote, etc) and target practice: * Possibly add a .22 for target practice and small varmints (rabbit, etc). Goose, pheasant, quail, turkey, personal protection: * Already own the gun; need more ammo Pistol (protection and possible hunting): * Possibly a 'big' pistol, plus ammo (plus sight?) * Possibly a 'conceal / carry' pistol, plus ammo ...I figure I can layer in some good clothes, etc. via birthday gift cards, etc. over time...no need to buy that stuff now (unless you guys tell me otherwise)... ...how would you prioritize the list (i.e., does a .22 come before or after a pistol (or two)?)... Thanks for helping me put together my shopping list. Total on the Benelli. You'd be hard pressed to find a better hunting shotgun. For geese: in shot size BBB For ducks: in shot size 3 For pheasant: in size 5 For turkey: For quail: For defense: For deer, check out the following rifles: Remington 700 Mountain Rifle Winchester Model 70 Browning A-bolt Weatherby Vanguard Sako Savage Any variant of these guns should serve you fine. I love the Remington Mountain Rifle for its simplicity and accuracy. Consider a synthetic or laminate stock if you want something more durable. They offer protection from warping and are more resistant to scratches. Take your pick of rifle ammo on the linked page, but stay away from the Wolf brand at the bottom: I'd get a .22 first to practice shooting a rifle. The Ruger 10/22 is a solid option, but you may want a nice bolt gun instead. The same manufacturers listed for deer rifles all make .22s. If you are going to stockpile .22 ammo, I'd go with CCI mini mags. They are loaded to a little tighter tolerances than a lot of other .22 ammo and it's really rare to have one misfire. Bargain packs, often called "bricks" can be poorly constructed and have a dud or so per 500/550 rounds. If you want an auto pistol, you may want to bump that up on your time table. Who knows what's going to happen & they've been a target of legislation in the past. This would make a nice hunting handgun and back up defense pistol: I had one of these and absolutely loved it. I could kill jack rabbits out to 100 yards without a scope. That's sweet accuracy out of a handgun. Here's a .44 mag from Smith & Wesson Picking a concealed carry gun is all kinds of fun. Start with Glock Sig Beretta Kahr H&K CZ Springfield If you want to jump right to the head of the class and get a 1911 ( ) check out these sites: Kimber Springfield Colt Les Baer Wilson Combat Ed Brown Dan Wesson Para Any route you take with a concealed weapon, stoke it with this: There are others, but this stuff rocks. Pardon the link assault, but helping somebody else shop for toys is almost as fun as doing it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 And Jimmy I hunt with the 454 rounds I play with the .45 LC, though I did shoot a few 454's yesterday. I really like my Ruger Super Redhawk, it is a fun gun. Now I just need to talk the wife into parting with enough cheese to get my 1911. I was fondling a Springfield Loaded and a Kimber Custom II friday afternoon. I liked the Springfield a little bit better, it just seemed to fit my hand better and I liked the trigger a bit better as well. I have a few more pistols to caress before I make my final decision. I'm just kiddin' about the big loads, Perch. I'm now dealing with carpal tunnel in both hands due to shooting big loads to way too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Just a note on the 1911's....stay away from the Paras. They are having mucho QC issues right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 Out of total and complete ignorance, what is the special stuff with a 1911? Is it a "conceal / carry" weapon? A 'hunter'? A 'defender'? Etc? ...just curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 "Muck, listen to Jimmy he knows his chit. I would add the .270 WSM as a caliber to look at, though the ammo is slightly higher than some of the others listed. Last October I bought a Browning X-Bolt in .270 WSM and put a Leupold VX-III with a 4.5x14 50mm with a Boone and Crocket Reticle, and absolutely love it." Ya reckon the ammo is higher? It is about 4 times higher than .308 and almost impossible to find unless you go to a specialty store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) Out of total and complete ignorance, what is the special stuff with a 1911? Is it a "conceal / carry" weapon? A 'hunter'? A 'defender'? Etc? ...just curious... The 1911 moniker denotes the year the US Army accepted the design as its issue sidearm. It was designed as a fighting handgun and has stood the test of time quite well. Many special ops units still use the 1911, favoring it over the standard issue Beretta. History The platform is now very commonly used in multiple competiton organizations like IDPA and IPSC. It remains a popular platform partially because of the fantastic ergonomics, trigger pull and because there are tons of after market accessories. It's a do it all weapon, though is marginal as a hunting weapon/cartridge. I've killed a couple of deer with mine, though from close range < 40 yrds. It's not a gun you want to take a running shot with at 50+ yards. Plus, they're purty. Edited March 23, 2009 by Jimmy Neutron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.