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Gopher
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Let me think about it. I agree with you, I think this will go back and forth until Roy leaves. Assuming Cal stays for his contract, I would think UK would put some distance there after Roy goes.

 

One other thing favoring UK is that the SEC is really in a down period right now. IF - and thats a big if - Cal gets 2 or 3 guys that were committed to Memphis to come to UK next year, he could win a ton of conference games.

 

I'll post my suggestions for how to structure the bet later today.

It could be as simple as, starting at the end of next season, whichever team is in the #1 spot, the other has to wear in his sigline ".....is the #1 basketball program of all time" Then whenever the lead changes, even within a single season, whoever is wearing the tagline switches.

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Tim Floyd to Arizona?? Could have big repercussions in the Pac 10. Discuss.

 

Pretty big. Though I'm more curious what wildcat says, since he poo-poo'd my observations about Floyd's in-game coaching skills recently. I'll be very interested to see who ends up at USC.

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It could be as simple as, starting at the end of next season, whichever team is in the #1 spot, the other has to wear in his sigline ".....is the #1 basketball program of all time" Then whenever the lead changes, even within a single season, whoever is wearing the tagline switches.

 

That's fair, but I'm pretty confident so I will even throw it your way a little - if UNC catches UK at any point during the season, I'll wear the tagline. Anytime it switches the tagline does as well. But, we won't start the bet until the end of the season unless UNC catches UK before that.

 

Deal?

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I love it when rival fans get their panties in a bunch.

 

Roy Williams has more official NCAA violations than John Calipari - FACT.

 

And these Memphis fans are outside Cal's house one minute begging him to stay and tearing him down the next.

 

Cal no doubt pushes the recruiting envelope as far as it will go, and that's fine with me. Just like a NASCAR team gets within 1/1000th of an inch of the limits on spoilers, etc, if you're not pushing it you're not doing your job. Cal plays the dribble drive offense, which is very attractive to guards and wings that want to play in the NBA, that's one big reason he drags in so much talent.

 

As a UK fan, I'm obviously biased, but this was a grand slam hire. We would have paid Billy Donovan or Tom Izzo the same amount of money, but Cal is the best fit here. We likely just went from mediocrity to national title contender next year, as its looking pretty likely that Wall and Cousins will follow Cal to Lexington (Henry likely to Kansas.) With Meeks and Patterson returning and Orton and Hood already committed (Gillispie's 3rd commit for 2009, GJ Vilarino, already de-committed) I think we are looking great for next year.

Hey, I'm just saying what I heard on the radio. If that gets your panties in a bunch, so be it. I too thought it funny that these same Memphis fans who begged him to stay were bashing him for running such a dirty program the minute he left.

 

Thing is, one of the reason why Calipari wouldn't take the NC State job, besides the obvious one that it was not remotely a step up, was the fact that the state of NC imposes certain base academic requirements that individual schools can't get around. That means he's certainly farming a type of player who doesn't even pretend to be a student athlete.

 

Say what you will about UNC, and I'm not so naive as to think that they're a bunch of choir boys and honor students, but they do graduate 86% of their b-ball players, including those who finish early.

 

Frankly, I think it sucks that kids need to pretend to be students for a year before they can go make their money playing hoops. It's not like the world isn't filled with uneducated people who can't ball. Why do we need to make people who have a skill they can parlay into more money than most of us will ever see get an education? So, I actually have no issue with the fact that Calipari is not interested in student athletes.

 

I was just posting what I heard. None the less, the point is well made that he's thrived at places with low expectations and floundered at the one place with high ones. We'll see.

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Hey, I'm just saying what I heard on the radio. If that gets your panties in a bunch, so be it. I too thought it funny that these same Memphis fans who begged him to stay were bashing him for running such a dirty program the minute he left.

 

Thing is, one of the reason why Calipari wouldn't take the NC State job, besides the obvious one that it was not remotely a step up, was the fact that the state of NC imposes certain base academic requirements that individual schools can't get around. That means he's certainly farming a type of player who doesn't even pretend to be a student athlete.

 

Say what you will about UNC, and I'm not so naive as to think that they're a bunch of choir boys and honor students, but they do graduate 86% of their b-ball players, including those who finish early.

 

Frankly, I think it sucks that kids need to pretend to be students for a year before they can go make their money playing hoops. It's not like the world isn't filled with uneducated people who can't ball. Why do we need to make people who have a skill they can parlay into more money than most of us will ever see get an education? So, I actually have no issue with the fact that Calipari is not interested in student athletes.

 

I was just posting what I heard. None the less, the point is well made that he's thrived at places with low expectations and floundered at the one place with high ones. We'll see.

 

Memphis had not graduated a basketball player in 6 years when Cal got there. He's graduated 19 of 23 seniors.

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Pretty big. Though I'm more curious what wildcat says, since he poo-poo'd my observations about Floyd's in-game coaching skills recently. I'll be very interested to see who ends up at USC.

 

 

I am torn - I generally like Floyd and I think he is a top notch recruiter which is a hugh piece of coaching- but I am kinda bummed because UA is not the gig I, or other Cats fans thought it was. Too many guys passed it looks like, the Few's, Dixon's of the world, which is surprising to me. Evidently UA post Lute is closer to UNLV post Shark than most UA fans want to admit. That being said, I think Floyd's rep and recruiting ability combined with UA's tradition, he has the chance to do good things in Tucson.

 

solid point GTS- his strengths are definitely defensive principles and recruiting vs in game x's and o's. For some reason his USC teams always look like they are going thru the motions and he isn't getting 110% out of them.

 

Kinda bummed but it could turn out well.

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I love it when rival fans get their panties in a bunch.

 

Roy Williams has more official NCAA violations than John Calipari - FACT.

 

And these Memphis fans are outside Cal's house one minute begging him to stay and tearing him down the next.

 

Cal no doubt pushes the recruiting envelope as far as it will go, and that's fine with me. Just like a NASCAR team gets within 1/1000th of an inch of the limits on spoilers, etc, if you're not pushing it you're not doing your job. Cal plays the dribble drive offense, which is very attractive to guards and wings that want to play in the NBA, that's one big reason he drags in so much talent.

 

As a UK fan, I'm obviously biased, but this was a grand slam hire. We would have paid Billy Donovan or Tom Izzo the same amount of money, but Cal is the best fit here. We likely just went from mediocrity to national title contender next year, as its looking pretty likely that Wall and Cousins will follow Cal to Lexington (Henry likely to Kansas.) With Meeks and Patterson returning and Orton and Hood already committed (Gillispie's 3rd commit for 2009, GJ Vilarino, already de-committed) I think we are looking great for next year.

 

 

I am with ya - Calipari in Lexington is the perfek choice - I love Calipari and I think anyone short of UNC or LOU that says they wouldn't want him is an effing liar.

 

The dood will kick ass at UK - he is an unreal recruiter and will land elite classes year after year. His players love him, he is fun to play for and he loves the game, and is the most likeable coach in America IMO.

 

He is a winner everywhere he goes and he elevates every program, UMass and Memphis were chit before he got there - he is a miracle 3 away from winning the NC last year. He will have UK competing for a NC year in and year out eventually. He has nice pices already in place for next year, and he doesn't have the 2 year noose around his neck like Gillespie

 

now for his x's and o's coaching ability- that is a different argument.

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Memphis had not graduated a basketball player in 6 years when Cal got there. He's graduated 19 of 23 seniors.

I'm not commenting on how many seniors graduate. Which, btw, is a very skewed stat because many programs have at least 5 or so scrubs who never play at all, nearly all of whom graduate, and, if you're generating NBA talent, many of the actual players never stay until they're seniors. I'm not saying UNC doesn't have those scrubs as well. However, one of the things that UNC prides itself on is how many of the guys who leave early end up finishing up their studies anyway. that's how a school who routinely has players leave early for the pros can still have an 86% graduation rate.

 

None the less, he made it clear that one of his issues with NC State was that the base requirements they had by virtue of being a state institution was not going to allow him to get the type of players he wants to be able to get. And, while it is admirable that those standards are in place, let's not fool ourselves by thinking they're anything all that rigid.

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That's fair, but I'm pretty confident so I will even throw it your way a little - if UNC catches UK at any point during the season, I'll wear the tagline. Anytime it switches the tagline does as well. But, we won't start the bet until the end of the season unless UNC catches UK before that.

 

Deal?

Sounds good.

 

Here's hoping that number is reduced to four by next tuesday! :fingerscrossed:

Edited by billay
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I'm not commenting on how many seniors graduate. Which, btw, is a very skewed stat because many programs have at least 5 or so scrubs who never play at all, nearly all of whom graduate, and, if you're generating NBA talent, many of the actual players never stay until they're seniors. I'm not saying UNC doesn't have those scrubs as well. However, one of the things that UNC prides itself on is how many of the guys who leave early end up finishing up their studies anyway. that's how a school who routinely has players leave early for the pros can still have an 86% graduation rate.

 

None the less, he made it clear that one of his issues with NC State was that the base requirements they had by virtue of being a state institution was not going to allow him to get the type of players he wants to be able to get. And, while it is admirable that those standards are in place, let's not fool ourselves by thinking they're anything all that rigid.

 

Good points Det. I realize that you were just playing messenger with your earlier comments, but I find it amusing that radio guys at rival schools and from Memphis are talking like we "sold our soul to the devil," "don't care about education anymore," etc. The fact still remains that Cal has zero violations on his record. Roy has one from KU, and Pitino has a whopping 8. While WWW may be a suspicious and shady character, he's not been implicated in any scandals either.

 

I think part of the reason that Cal gets this rep, unfortunately, is because he is a slick Italian dude. If a pure white American dude named John Smith had the same career as Cal, I bet dollars to donuts that half of the crap he takes wouldn't even be coming up.

 

OT, Jay Bilas was on ESPN earlier, said Cousins would be at UK and that would make us a top 10 team. If we add Wall, he says we're title contenders. No other hire would have turned this thing around so fast.

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Good points Det. I realize that you were just playing messenger with your earlier comments, but I find it amusing that radio guys at rival schools and from Memphis are talking like we "sold our soul to the devil," "don't care about education anymore," etc. The fact still remains that Cal has zero violations on his record. Roy has one from KU, and Pitino has a whopping 8. While WWW may be a suspicious and shady character, he's not been implicated in any scandals either.

 

I think part of the reason that Cal gets this rep, unfortunately, is because he is a slick Italian dude. If a pure white American dude named John Smith had the same career as Cal, I bet dollars to donuts that half of the crap he takes wouldn't even be coming up.

 

OT, Jay Bilas was on ESPN earlier, said Cousins would be at UK and that would make us a top 10 team. If we add Wall, he says we're title contenders. No other hire would have turned this thing around so fast.

 

I'd just like to remind you that Georgetown and Notre Dame were top ten teams at the beginning of the season this year. What the pundits say doesn't really mean anything until the ball hits the court. Nothing is turned around until UK finishes better than they did under Gillespie.

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I'd just like to remind you that Georgetown and Notre Dame were top ten teams at the beginning of the season this year. What the pundits say doesn't really mean anything until the ball hits the court. Nothing is turned around until UK finishes better than they did under Gillespie.

 

I can live with that. But, UK was 16-4, 5-0 in conference after 20 games this year and then fell apart. The team got progressively worse as they year wore on, and that falls squarely on the coach. A home win against a 1-14 UGA team would have gotten UK into the dance, and they couldn't even do that.

 

A telling sign so far is that all but one of Gillispie's early verbals has decomitted. He simply wasn't going to bring in the right level of talent for UK, whereas Calipari will. If he could recruit kids to Memphis, one of the biggest cesspools in the country, he can certainly bring them to Kentucky.

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Sean Miller it is!!!!

 

the UA circus is over and they ended up with the guy I wanted all along (and Dixon) so I am fired up!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

young, energetic coach that will settle in nicely and be a major player in the Pac 10 and Nationally for years to come

 

 

GO CATS

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Sean Miller it is!!!!

 

the UA circus is over and they ended up with the guy I wanted all along (and Dixon) so I am fired up!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

young, energetic coach that will settle in nicely and be a major player in the Pac 10 and Nationally for years to come

 

 

GO CATS

 

wow, i came to this thread to lament that another coach turned arizona down -- as of last night, the reports said the xavier AD expected miller to say this morning that he was staying. great news!

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Real nice signing for sure. I think Miller did a great job at Xavier and thought he would stay because he has a very young team with strong potential in the upcoming years.

 

He should get Arizona back to the top relatively quickly.

 

Sorry, I must have missed the period where Arizona was "at the top."

 

This is the exact thing some of the ESPN guys have been saying for the last week, you don't want to date the girl who's a 6 and thinks she's a 9. Same with coaching jobs. Arizona is probably a top 15-20 job, but the fans think they're top tier. This will be a long, painful rebuild, but Miller is a good coach and should be up to the task. But it won't happen quickly by any means.

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Sorry, I must have missed the period where Arizona was "at the top."

 

This is the exact thing some of the ESPN guys have been saying for the last week, you don't want to date the girl who's a 6 and thinks she's a 9. Same with coaching jobs. Arizona is probably a top 15-20 job, but the fans think they're top tier. This will be a long, painful rebuild, but Miller is a good coach and should be up to the task. But it won't happen quickly by any means.

 

 

whatever - they are one of the top 5 programs under Lute's tenure. period. they have faded recently, but they are still a top 10 or so program, and were getting top 5 or 10 classes every year under Lute - the old guy lost it at some point - but Miller WILL have them back in the mix nationally very soon....

 

u joking?? dude is getting it done at Xavier and now moves on to Arizona?? sky is the limit for Miller and the Cats

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whatever - they are one of the top 5 programs under Lute's tenure. period. they have faded recently, but they are still a top 10 or so program, and were getting top 5 or 10 classes every year under Lute - the old guy lost it at some point - but Miller WILL have them back in the mix nationally very soon....

 

u joking?? dude is getting it done at Xavier and now moves on to Arizona?? sky is the limit for Miller and the Cats

 

Billy Gillispie got it done at 2 schools then moved on to Kentucky, a MUCH better job than Arizona, and the sky was the limit for him, too.

 

I'll trade the two years of garbage for the coming 10 years of dominance under Cal though. I love Miller....he was my second choice after Cal to come to UK. But for AZ fans who want things fixed quickly, they're in for a rude awakening. They will almost certainly miss the NCAA tourney next year as their roster will resemble that of decent mid major (maybe.)

 

I don't doubt that AZ will be a top 15-20 program under Miller, but its a couple of years out.

 

Here's a list of the top ten "programs" in no particular order;

 

UNC

UCLA

UK

Duke

IU

KU

UL

Syracuse

UConn

Mich State

 

AZ is in the next tier with schools like St. John's, Ohio State, etc.

Edited by Cyclones
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Billy Gillispie got it done at 2 schools then moved on to Kentucky, a MUCH better job than Arizona, and the sky was the limit for him, too.

 

The last 10 years?

 

Arizona: 237-99, 10 NCAA appearances, 5 times in the Sweet 16, 4 times in the Elite 8, 1 time in the Final 4. 3 Pac-10 titles.

Kentucky: 240-97, 9 NCAA appearances, 4 times in the Sweet 16, 2 times in the Elite 8, 4 SEC titles.

 

I'll trade the two years of garbage for the coming 10 years of dominance under Cal though. I love Miller....he was my second choice after Cal to come to UK. But for AZ fans who want things fixed quickly, they're in for a rude awakening. They will almost certainly miss the NCAA tourney next year as their roster will resemble that of decent mid major (maybe.)

 

Now I think you're just trying to fish, so I'll refrain comment.

 

Here's a list of the top ten "programs" in no particular order;

 

UNC

UCLA

UK

Duke

IU

KU

UL

Syracuse

UConn

Mich State

 

AZ is in the next tier with schools like St. John's, Ohio State, etc.

 

When has St. John's had a relevant basketball program since Walter Berry? :wacko: For that matter, Indiana lost it's luster a long time ago.....makes me take anything you have to say on this subject into serious consideration in terms of whether or not you have a clue as to what you're talking about.

 

However, this is an interesting question in terms of what the top "10" or so programs are in college basketball......

 

Multiple Final 4's in the last decade: North Carolina, Michigan St., UConn, Kansas, UCLA, Florida, Duke, Maryland....Syracuse has a title in the time frame also. That's 9 schools...what would be the other? Louisville and Arizona have been to a great deal of final 8's and a Final 4 a piece. Kentucky had a couple of #1 seeds and regional final losses....Depends on the criteria, but I think you could weight certain things, like tournament performance giving points for each round you win in the tourney like you would a bracket, give extra points for #1 seeding, and/or conference championships, 30 wins, that sort of thing.....maybe I'll do it if I'm bored sometime soon and post the results.

Edited by godtomsatan
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The last 10 years?

 

Arizona: 237-99, 10 NCAA appearances, 5 times in the Sweet 16, 4 times in the Elite 8, 1 time in the Final 4. 3 Pac-10 titles.

Kentucky: 240-97, 9 NCAA appearances, 4 times in the Sweet 16, 2 times in the Elite 8, 4 SEC titles.

 

 

 

Now I think you're just trying to fish, so I'll refrain comment.

 

 

 

When has St. John's had a relevant basketball program since Walter Berry? :wacko: For that matter, Indiana lost it's luster a long time ago.....makes me take anything you have to say on this subject into serious consideration in terms of whether or not you have a clue as to what you're talking about.

 

However, this is an interesting question in terms of what the top "10" or so programs are in college basketball......

 

Multiple Final 4's in the last decade: North Carolina, Michigan St., UConn, Kansas, UCLA, Florida, Duke, Maryland....Syracuse has a title in the time frame also. That's 9 schools...what would be the other? Louisville and Arizona have been to a great deal of final 8's and a Final 4 a piece. Kentucky had a couple of #1 seeds and regional final losses....Depends on the criteria, but I think you could weight certain things, like tournament performance giving points for each round you win in the tourney like you would a bracket, give extra points for #1 seeding, and/or conference championships, 30 wins, that sort of thing.....maybe I'll do it if I'm bored sometime soon and post the results.

 

I didn't say top 10 of the last 10 year, I said top 10 programs. Anyone will say without hesitation that the top 6 are

 

UNC

UK

IU

KU

Duke

UCLA

 

The next tier likely will cause some debate, but it likely includes

 

UL

MSU

UConn

Syracuse

OSU

St. John's

 

 

Arizona is in the bottom part of this tier or maybe even the next tier. Its a decent job but the crappy facilities and total lack of production under any coach except Lute makes it hard to rank them any higher. (And yes, I know Duke has only K and Cuse has performed under only one coach, but they've been better than AZ was under Lute for longer.)

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