Tipping Ettiquette

[muck]

Last night at dinner, here was exactly how my bill looked:

 

$40.00 Food & drinks (it was itemized, but I won't bore you)

$3.00 Tax

 

$8.60 Tip (20%)

 

_______ Additional tip

 

 

_______ Total

 

*****************************************************

 

Here's the problem ... service was bad (real bad) ... and the wife of our friends food was really undercooked.

 

I nearly put a negative number on the "additional tip" line because of the bad service, the excessive tip (I rarely tip above 12-15%) and the fact that they calculated the tip on top of the tax.

 

Should I have?

 

NOTE: Mitigating factor ... there were four adults and five kids (plus our infant son); still service was bad, no matter how you slice it.

[tbimm]

Last night at dinner, here was exactly how my bill looked:

 

$40.00 Food & drinks (it was itemized, but I won't bore you)

$3.00 Tax

 

$8.60 Tip (20%)

 

_______ Additional tip

 

 

_______ Total

 

*****************************************************

 

Here's the problem ... service was bad (real bad) ... and the wife of our friends food was really undercooked.

 

I nearly put a negative number on the "additional tip" line because of the bad service, the excessive tip (I rarely tip above 12-15%) and the fact that they calculated the tip on top of the tax.

 

Should I have?

 

NOTE: Mitigating factor ... there were four adults and five kids (plus our infant son); still service was bad, no matter how you slice it.

Where I am from 12-15% is considered a cheap tipper. That may be the reason for the poor service if you are a regular there. Then again I tend to tip a bit more and have still come across bad service here and there. More often than not though my reputation for tipping well has brought not only excellent service, but many perks as well.

[keggerz]

1. I always thought that 15% was the "norm" and anything above that was considered good(I usually tip 20%)

2. As far as I know the tip should NEVER be calculated with the tax included.

 

EDIT: Fwiw, when I sit down the servers tip in my head is set at 20%...there are things that will make me say well they

are impacting their tip and that means they are going to get 15%...if the service is so awful that I really cringe that I even

have to leave a tip I still leave the 15% and will usually top it off with a penny and then have a converstation with the manager...not that I have had many converstations but there have been a few in my time.

Edited April 11, 2009 by keggerz

[SheikYerbuti]

You fed 4 adults and 5 kids with drinks for $40? Since when does McDonalds have a wait staff?

[Jackass]

You fed 4 adults and 5 kids with drinks for $40? Since when does McDonalds have a wait staff?

 

I'm not even sure you could eat at that price at mcdonald's.

 

Is this a place you are a regular at? What type of restaurant was it? local establishment?

 

20% seems a little excessive, but i've been to many places that automatically add 18% for parties of six or more or something.

 

If the service was really that bad, in a situation like that i would have spoken to the manager and informed him that i'm not tipping 20% and explained why.

[muck]

Fed two adults and three kids (off the kids menu) for $40; we drank water but ordered an appetizer. Our friends (two adults and two kids; one ate off the adult menu) ate for $50 (they had cokes at $2.50 / ea, no refills).

 

This was our first time at this place.

 

And, the way I look at it, tipping 12-15% / each time allows my family to eat out a few additional times each year for the same total cost ... so, if the local restaurant owners would like for us to stay home instead of frequenting their restaurants, we're happy to oblige. I personally think that a 20% tip is over the top. Each to their own...God Bless America. :flag:

 

I'm not looking for a discussion on the "correct" percent to tip, but perspective on how I should have handled the "Additional Tip" line. I really wish I would have put a negative number in that line to see what they would have done...neither us nor our friends are ever planning on going back.

[muck]

I'm guessing that y'all didn't have time to talk to the manager right then? Cuz bad service and under-cooked food deserves immediate attention.

 

Conversation occured, and it went like this:

 

Wife (to my wife): "Does this look undercooked to you?"

Muckette: "How did you order it?"

Wife: "Medium."

Muckette: "That looks medium."

Wife: "Ummm...ok. I guess I should have ordered medium well, then."

...two minutes later...

Wife: "This is definately not medium."

...shows it to my wife and her husband...

Muckette: "That is not medium."

Husband: "That is not medium."

...look around for waiter...he's no where to be found...finally comes by a couple of minutes later and offers to throw it on the grill for a few minutes...which he does and it comes back and our friend eats the rest of her dinner...

 

The thing was (imo) not that it was undercooked, but, as I looked at it it was totally unevenly cooked...part looked medium, part looked nearly raw...plus the few minute wait for the waiter to come by...

 

Nobody talked to the manager. The manager never tried to talk to us, either.

[muck]

I would've paid and not gone back.

 

...which is what we plan on doing...

[Furd]

It may not be a question of etiquette. If the 20% service charge is advertised and automatically included, you agreed to pay it when you ordered the meal. Just like you agreed to pay $7.99 for the rib-eye (sorry). Call the manager.

 

If 20% was "suggested," cross out the $8.60 if you want.

[whoopazz]

Did you need a tow truck??

[SteelBunz]

It may not be a question of etiquette. If the 20% service charge is advertised and automatically included, you agreed to pay it when you ordered the meal. Just like you agreed to pay $7.99 for the rib-eye (sorry). Call the manager.

 

If 20% was "suggested," cross out the $8.60 if you want.

That might be so, Furd.....but muck is completely right in that tips are to be calculated using food and bev totals only......never are they to be tax inclusive when figuring the percentage owed. Especially if the restaurant is adding a "mandatory % tip" based on the number in your party.

 

Kids or no kids.....bad service or good service......THIS part at least should have been brought to the manager's attention. If it's done on their computer that way, their program needs reworked.

 

As an aside, I don't disagree with mandatory percentages for larger parties for various reasons. BUT...in any situation, making it 20% seems excessive to me. And doing it to include tax makes it, technically, ~22%. 18% is usually reserved for higher end restaurants.....any place with a kid's menu and where you can get away with feeding 2 adults and 3 kids for $40 has NO business charging a mandatory 20%.....LOL.

[detlef]

That might be so, Furd.....but muck is completely right in that tips are to be calculated using food and bev totals only......never are they to be tax inclusive when figuring the percentage owed. Especially if the restaurant is adding a "mandatory % tip" based on the number in your party.

Kids or no kids.....bad service or good service......THIS part at least should have been brought to the manager's attention. If it's done on their computer that way, their program needs reworked.

 

As an aside, I don't disagree with mandatory percentages for larger parties for various reasons. BUT...in any situation, making it 20% seems excessive to me. And doing it to include tax makes it, technically, ~22%. 18% is usually reserved for higher end restaurants.....any place with a kid's menu and where you can get away with feeding 2 adults and 3 kids for $40 has NO business charging a mandatory 20%.....LOL.

This is the important part. I understand that many people tip based on tax (I certainly know that when my waiters complain about a bad tip, they always base the bad tip on the post tax total, to which I need to remind them that they shouldn't and thus the tip wasn't really all that bad). None the less, if a restaurant auto-grats, it should always be done on the pre tax total.

 

Now, that said, if the menu says 20% and they do add that 20% correctly, you should just pay and move on. On the other hand, I'm surprised to see a place with prices low enough that 2 adults and 3 kids can eat for $40 have a 20% auto-grat. Ours, for instance, is 18% and a family of 5 would have a hell of a time getting out of my place for $40.

 

Opie's point about the fact that people should over tip when they bring in kids is certainly solid but I'm afraid that's not in play here. Again, the crux of the biscuit is the fact that they not only have an auto tip on the high end of the scale, but they failed to add it correctly. The amazing thing is that almost every restaurant these days uses computer point of sale and this sort of thing is added automatically with the tap of a button. Thus, it is unlikely that this particular waiter screwed up, but something that happens at every table. Sounds like someone doesn't know what they're doing.

Edited April 11, 2009 by detlef

[Jackass]

That might be so, Furd.....but muck is completely right in that tips are to be calculated using food and bev totals only......never are they to be tax inclusive when figuring the percentage owed. Especially if the restaurant is adding a "mandatory % tip" based on the number in your party.

 

Kids or no kids.....bad service or good service......THIS part at least should have been brought to the manager's attention. If it's done on their computer that way, their program needs reworked.

 

As an aside, I don't disagree with mandatory percentages for larger parties for various reasons. BUT...in any situation, making it 20% seems excessive to me. And doing it to include tax makes it, technically, ~22%. 18% is usually reserved for higher end restaurants.....any place with a kid's menu and where you can get away with feeding 2 adults and 3 kids for $40 has NO business charging a mandatory 20%.....LOL.

 

Good info here.

 

I think you have a legitimate gripe.

 

On the flip side, i know you didn't ask, but tipping 12 -15% is undertipping in today's day and age, esp. when you have kids which are a huge pain in the ass and typically don't add much to the bill.

[Chavez]

....Sounds like someone doesn't know what they're doing.

As the horribly-cooked steak would attest.

 

Someone call Gordon Ramsay!

[Whiskey Pimp]

This is the important part. I understand that many people tip based on tax (I certainly know that when my waiters complain about a bad tip, they always base the bad tip on the post tax total, to which I need to remind them that they shouldn't and thus the tip wasn't really all that bad). None the less, if a restaurant auto-grats, it should always be done on the pre tax total.

 

Now, that said, if the menu says 20% and they do add that 20% correctly, you should just pay and move on. On the other hand, I'm surprised to see a place with prices low enough that 2 adults and 3 kids can eat for $40 have a 20% auto-grat. Ours, for instance, is 18% and a family of 5 would have a hell of a time getting out of my place for $40.

 

Opie's point about the fact that people should over tip when they bring in kids is certainly solid but I'm afraid that's not in play here. Again, the crux of the biscuit is the fact that they not only have an auto tip on the high end of the scale, but they failed to add it correctly. The amazing thing is that almost every restaurant these days uses computer point of sale and this sort of thing is added automatically with the tap of a button. Thus, it is unlikely that this particular waiter screwed up, but something that happens at every table. Sounds like someone doesn't know what they're doing.

 

Or the restaurant knows EXACTLY what they're doing and just no one complains about it.

[detlef]

As the horribly-cooked steak would attest.

 

Someone call Gordon Ramsay!

Well, the horribly cooked steak, like the tip issue would be if it is done by hand, could simply be the result of one employee's screw up. Needless to say, none of us run shops that are immune to that.

 

On the other hand, if they are using a computer and didn't manage to set it up right, considering that when you get one of these systems, they have a guy who comes out and sets it up for you and auto-grat policy is likely built in. The owner would have had to specifically gone in and changed it to post tax tip as well as jacked it up to a % that is hardly industry standard.

[godtomsatan]

You had, what, 9 people at a table? That's why the tip is automatic.

 

And you spent less than $10 a person. That doesn't give you much room to gripe about service.

Edited April 11, 2009 by godtomsatan

[detlef]

You had, what, 9 people at a table? That's why the tip is automatic.

 

And you spent less than $10 a person. That doesn't give you much room to gripe about service.

Odd, we don't have a minimum check average that you have to meet in order to expect decent service. I'd be lying if I said we didn't ratchet it up a bit once it appears someone's going large but we'll still cook your food and bring it to you if you don't.

[TimC]

Does it bother you more that Government takes $3.00 for performing no service whatsoever in this transaction?

[Puddy]

Does it bother you more that Government takes $3.00 for performing no service whatsoever in this transaction?

Well unless the waiter is going to use his portion to look for mythical WMD's, no.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

2. As far as I know the tip should NEVER be calculated with the tax included.

I've read this before here and never really understood the big deal.

If my wife and I go out, say the check is $100. In Pa., the tax is 6% or $6. 15% of $6 is $.90. And to be perfectly honest, for the 2 of us, the check is usually alot less than $100 depending on where we go.

 

$.90 guys.

[Chief Dick]

Where did you eat muck?

 

I'll go in tomorrow and kick some ass for you.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Chief Dick

[Double Agent]

And you spent less than $10 a person. That doesn't give you much room to gripe about service.

 

Couldn't disagree more. Whether I spend $8.00 on a hamburger or $30 on a filet, I expect good service. It's their job, ya know?

[muck]

Bottom line is that we are never going back.

 

It did appear the smaller tables we're having more fun, though...

 

Detlef ... I did have a question for you ... would you rather someone come into your establishment once a month and tip your staff at 20%, or come in once a month ... plus two additional visit during the year if they only tipped your staff 12%?

[Big John]

This is the important part. I understand that many people tip based on tax (I certainly know that when my waiters complain about a bad tip, they always base the bad tip on the post tax total, to which I need to remind them that they shouldn't and thus the tip wasn't really all that bad). None the less, if a restaurant auto-grats, it should always be done on the pre tax total.

Did the tipping on tax make up for the credit card charges on the tip amount?