Gopher Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 So, Ursa's comment regarding Chauncey Billups (and the fact that MN let him go so that Terrell Brandon could sit on their bench for two seasons), as well as my response on how depressing it is at times to be a Wolves' fan, has got me to thinking... Other than Garnett, who really ARE the Wolves' best players of all-time. Are they the guys who excelled for a couple/few seasons, only to move on through trade/free agency (Wally Szczerbiak, Tom Gugliotta, Stephon Marbury), or the guys like Tony Campbell, who struggled through the worst or worst times with the franchise, but actually had a fairly decent overall career with the Wolves. I'm wondering what franchise(s) out there actually have a worse all-time team than the Wolves... Here is a compilation of what I consider to be the Wolves all-time team... I'm surely going to forget about someone, so please... help me out, fellow MN fans, if you dare admit it and take the verbal abuse If not, share your feedback, and I'll add to or edit my list. I'm using the following criteria to determine who belongs (players could end up "qualifying" for more than one franchise): (1) Played majority of career with MN (2) Drafted/acquired on draft day by MN (3) Best season(s) were with MN (4) Player was instrumental in achieving MN's best season(s), playoff run, etc. (Notice I said "run", as there really only was one...) Center Al Jefferson (3)... After one and a half seasons with the team, he's already the best center in franchise history, even though he's really a PF/C hybrid because of his size. Honorable mention: Felton Spencer, Rasho Nesterovic, Dean Garrett Power Forward Kevin Garnett... Obviously, he fits arguably all four of the criteria, although his best season from an accomplishment standpoint (not statistically) would be last year. Honorable mention: Tom Gugliotta, Christian Laettner, Joe Smith, Kevin Love Small Forward Sam Mitchell... Tough call between three of the originals... Mitchell, West, and Campbell, but Sam is #2 all-time in points and rebounds for MN. Honorable mention: Tony Campbell, Wally Szczerbiak, Tyrone Corbin Shooting Guard Doug West... 3rd all-time in scoring, another original T-Wolve. Honorable mention: J.R. Rider, Anthony Peeler, Latrell Sprewell Point Guard Pooh Richardson... 2nd all-time in assists (behind KG). Honorable mention: Stephon Marbury, Terrell Brandon, Michael Williams, Terry Porter, Sam Cassell, Chauncey Billups Looking at the list, it's clear that the center position has always been a problem for the Wolves. If not for Jefferson recently, that list would be absolutely brutal... the only other names that I thought of, but just couldn't stomache putting on the list, were Michael Olowokandi and Cherokee Parks. The list of veteran PG's who have come into MN for one or two good seasons, only to leave through free agency and play productively somewhere else, on the other hand, is fairly long. Minnesota has also clearly had their list of blunders and bad calls by management over the years... Trading Ray Allen in '96 for the rights to Marbury, the free agency/contract violations surrounding Joe Smith in 2000 (costing the Wolves a total of five draft picks over the next few years), as well as the aforementioned release of Billups due to Terrell Brandon being the PG of the future (Brandon went on to sit out the majority of the next two seasons due to injury, while being paid millions each season). Overall, though, despite all of the frustration and disappointment, it's been a blast being a Wolves fan over the past two decades... I can't imagine what things would have been like had Minnesota not gotten an NBA franchise. I guess I would still be a Lakers fan. So, who do some of you other NBA fans have on your lists, as far as an all-time starting lineup goes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 If just looking at players from my prime watching years and not all-time, for the Warriors my quick list off the top of my head: PG - Tim Hardaway, Baron Davis, Gilbert Arenas SG - Mitch Richmond, Jason Richardson, Latrell Sprewell Honorable mention guards - Monta Ellis (see how he does next year), Sarunas Marciulionis SF - Chris Mullin (could go as a SG), Antawn Jamison, Stephen Jackson PF - Chris Webber Honorable Mention forwards- Randolph (really excited to see how he develops) C - Andris Biedrins, Erick Dampier Honorable mention - Adonal Foyle (never a star, but he did his job which was play defense and block shots, and he was/is a class act) We haven't had much in the way of big men over the years, picking up some journeymen for a few average seasons (Danny Fortson types). Looking back in history, a few other names - Wilt Chamberlain(Philly and SF Warriors), Rick Barry and Nate Thurmond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) If just looking at players from my prime watching years and not all-time, for the Warriors my quick list off the top of my head: PG - Tim Hardaway, Baron Davis, Gilbert Arenas SG - Mitch Richmond, Jason Richardson, Latrell Sprewell Honorable mention guards - Monta Ellis (see how he does next year), Sarunas Marciulionis SF - Chris Mullin (could go as a SG), Antawn Jamison, Stephen Jackson PF - Chris Webber Honorable Mention forwards- Randolph (really excited to see how he develops) C - Andris Biedrins, Erick Dampier Honorable mention - Adonal Foyle (never a star, but he did his job which was play defense and block shots, and he was/is a class act) We haven't had much in the way of big men over the years, picking up some journeymen for a few average seasons (Danny Fortson types). Looking back in history, a few other names - Wilt Chamberlain(Philly and SF Warriors), Rick Barry and Nate Thurmond Either way, that's a pretty decent list for a team that has been "down" for the majority of the last 15+ years. Much better than the Wolves, that's for sure. In honor of Nelly, you could go "small" and compile a pretty stellar starting group that could run 'n gun with anybody... Hardaway, Arenas, Richmond, Mullin, and Webber, with Baron/JRich/Jamison/Jackson/Spree off the bench. That's actually a pretty good squad, right there, if you ignore the fact that there's not much size (like you said). Edited April 20, 2009 by Gopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 PG - chauncey billups. remember, he not only grew up here and went to college here, he also had a previous stint with the nugs. SG - lafayette lever - mr. triple double, a greatly underrated player SF - alex english. ok, this is tough, with 3 truly great players at the position to choose from (david thompson, alex english, and carmelo anthony). think I'll put melo at the 4. PF - carmelo anthony. C - dan issel coming off the bench, thompson at 2/3, calvin natt at 4, michael adams at point, mutombo at 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Either way, that's a pretty decent list for a team that has been "down" for the majority of the last 15+ years. Much better than the Wolves, that's for sure. In honor of Nelly, you could go "small" and compile a pretty stellar starting group that could run 'n gun with anybody... Hardaway, Arenas, Richmond, Mullin, and Webber, with Baron/JRich/Jamison/Jackson/Spree off the bench. That's actually a pretty good squad, right there, if you ignore the fact that there's not much size (like you said). I won't deny that the Warriors have to be in the top 3-5 most exciting teams to watch over the last 10 years, just don't count on them to stop an opposing team from scoring which is generally what is needed to win games at some point... and playoff series, unless you can trick your former team into trying to out run n gun you ala the Mavs in '07. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 PG - chauncey billups. remember, he not only grew up here and went to college here, he also had a previous stint with the nugs.SG - lafayette lever - mr. triple double, a greatly underrated player SF - alex english. ok, this is tough, with 3 truly great players at the position to choose from (david thompson, alex english, and carmelo anthony). think I'll put melo at the 4. PF - carmelo anthony. C - dan issel coming off the bench, thompson at 2/3, calvin natt at 4, michael adams at point, mutombo at 5. Nice list. One guy I was surprised not to see was Kiki Vandeweghe... Although he only played four of his 14 seasons with Denver, he was a two-time Nugget all-star and holds the Denver record for most 30+ point games in a season (tied with English)... Kiki had 43 30-point games in '83-84, while English did it two years later. One other interesting note I found is that Mutumbo actually holds the Nuggets' record for most minutes played in a single season with 3100 in 1994-95. I'm a little surprised that a 7'2" center holds that record, although I guess it is pretty impressive that he's still playing in his 40's. A couple of other long-time Nuggets from the past (80's, mainly) are T.R. Dunn and Bill Hanzlik. Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 My Nets all time list is pretty friggin bad. . .if you leave out the ABA years you can't even count Dr. J. Our only HOF'ers are Tiny Archibald who played for us for 1 year and Drazen Petrovic. G - Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, Albert King, Kenny Anderson F - Buck Williams, Drazen Petrovic, Derrick Coleman (?), Richard Jefferson C - Oh good lord. . .Jayson Williams? Chris Dudley??. . . can we just go ahead and dub Brook Lopez the best center we've ever had after 1 year?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Either way, that's a pretty decent list for a team that has been "down" for the majority of the last 15+ years. Much better than the Wolves, that's for sure. In honor of Nelly, you could go "small" and compile a pretty stellar starting group that could run 'n gun with anybody... Hardaway, Arenas, Richmond, Mullin, and Webber, with Baron/JRich/Jamison/Jackson/Spree off the bench. That's actually a pretty good squad, right there, if you ignore the fact that there's not much size (like you said). I recall one horrible season for the Warriors noticing that there were 11 players playing meaningful minutes on play-off teams that season who had been on the Warriors roster in the very recent past. They've never had a problem finding talent, just keeping it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) hmmmm 76ers Guards: Cheeks, Toney, Iverson & Greer Forwards: Dr. J., Barkley, Bobby Jones, Billy Cunningham Center: Wilt, Malone & Dawkins Edited April 21, 2009 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Kansas City Kings: Guard: Tiny Archibald, Phil Ford Forward: Otis Birdsong, Scott Wedman Center: Sam Lacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Seattle SuperSonics C: Jack Sikma F: Shawn Kemp F/G: Fred Brown G: Lenny Wilkens G: Gary Payton McMillan, and the X Man coming off the bench. Edited April 21, 2009 by godtomsatan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) C: Bill Russell PF: Kevin McHale SF Larry Bird SG Sam Jones PG John Havliceck 6th man: Paul Pierce HM Robert Parrish Edited April 21, 2009 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 PG: Michael Jordan SG: Michael Jordan SF: Michael Jordan PF: Michael Jordan C: Michael Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackshi17 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Lakers Chamberlain C Baylor F Worthy F West G Bryant G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 LakersChamberlain C Baylor F Worthy F West G Bryant G Bring Magic and Kareem off the bench, I guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 PG: Michael JordanSG: Michael Jordan SF: Michael Jordan PF: Michael Jordan C: Michael Jordan OK just kidding. Chicago Bulls PG: Norm van Lier SG: Michael Jordan SF: Scottie Pippen PF: Horace Grant C: Artis Gilmore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Nice list. One guy I was surprised not to see was Kiki Vandeweghe... Although he only played four of his 14 seasons with Denver, he was a two-time Nugget all-star and holds the Denver record for most 30+ point games in a season (tied with English)... Kiki had 43 30-point games in '83-84, while English did it two years later. kiki crossed my mind, but we already had enough offense. and the team got a LOT better when they traded him for natt, fat lever and wayne cooper. hell, they got better just swapping out kiki's minutes to calvin natt, who was a better frontcourt complement to english. kiki and english were too similar (finesse scorers) to be a good tandem. A couple of other long-time Nuggets from the past (80's, mainly) are T.R. Dunn and Bill Hanzlik. right after I clicked submit, I thought "I shoulda thrown TR dunn on there as a defensive stopper" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 hmmmm 76ers Guards: Cheeks, Toney, Iverson & Greer Forwards: Dr. J., Barkley, Bobby Jones, Billy Cunningham Center: Wilt, Malone & Dawkins wow that would be a pretty good squad right there. my stepdad still talked about how pissed he was when the nuggets traded bobby jones to the sixers 30 years after the deal went down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinL Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Cavs PG - Mark Price - this has been a deep position, with Terrell Brandon, Brevin Knight, & Andre Miller following Price, and now Mo Williams performing pretty well. SG - Austin Carr - gets the nod here over World B Free and Ron Harper SF - LeBron James - clear choice, sorry Bingo Smith & Mike Mitchell PF - Larry Nance - runner up would be Hot Rod Williams. Others of note include Shawn Kemp and maybe even Boozer. C - Zydrunas Ilgauskas - over Brad Daugherty. Very similar players but big tall Z has lasted longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Cavs PG - Mark Price - this has been a deep position, with Terrell Brandon, Brevin Knight, & Andre Miller following Price, and now Mo Williams performing pretty well. SG - Austin Carr - gets the nod here over World B Free and Ron Harper SF - LeBron James - clear choice, sorry Bingo Smith & Mike Mitchell PF - Larry Nance - runner up would be Hot Rod Williams. Others of note include Shawn Kemp and maybe even Boozer. C - Zydrunas Ilgauskas - over Brad Daugherty. Very similar players but big tall Z has lasted longer. no craig ehlo? eta: Edited April 21, 2009 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I recall one horrible season for the Warriors noticing that there were 11 players playing meaningful minutes on play-off teams that season who had been on the Warriors roster in the very recent past. They've never had a problem finding talent, just keeping it. I blame the ownership for that. And Mullin was a little quick on the max contracts for Murphy and Dunleavy, but overall has been good at finding talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WashingtonD Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Havlicek over Cousy at PG? I think not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Seattle SuperSonics C: Jack Sikma F: Shawn Kemp F/G: Fred Brown G: Lenny Wilkens G: Gary Payton McMillan, and the X Man coming off the bench. close to mine for da Supes G G. Payton G G. Williams F X. McDaniel F S. Kemp C J. Sikma h. mention - McMillan, D. Johnson, L. Wilkens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Pistones. Guys, help me here from our area. PG - The one and only Isiah. (Sorry Polk) SG - Joe Dumars (Had Bing here but I think Joe D. deserves the nod) SF - George Yardley, way before my time but I have to give him the nod over Rodman, Prince, and PF - Ben Wallace, played more center but was truely a power forward. C - Bob Lanier Tough team to build not so much because of a plethera great great players but a lot of guys about the same and not many played for a long time with Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) Pistones. Guys, help me here from our area. PG - The one and only Isiah. (Sorry Polk) SG - Joe Dumars (Had Bing here but I think Joe D. deserves the nod) SF - George Yardley, way before my time but I have to give him the nod over Rodman, Prince, and PF - Ben Wallace, played more center but was truely a power forward. C - Bob Lanier Tough team to build not so much because of a plethera great great players but a lot of guys about the same and not many played for a long time with Detroit. Laimbeer as backup PF? Link I found on Pistons page Edited April 24, 2009 by Big Country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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