Bye Bye Bertuzzi

[LegFuJohnson]

Except that I thought I read that Naslund said the hit was clean. You can't go skating around with your head down. There wasn't even a penalty on the play.

I'm not suggesting that this Bertuzzi thing was the worst thing I've seen, but to say its just as cheap as the hit on Naslund is foolish.

[Hugh 0ne]

LegFuJohnson:

Except that I thought I read that Naslund said the hit was clean.  You can't go skating around with your head down.  There wasn't even a penalty on the play.

I'm not suggesting that this Bertuzzi thing was the worst thing I've seen, but to say its just as cheap as the hit on Naslund is foolish.

Well, back to my point. I watch a lot of hockey, played in college, yada yada yada. I consider myself a true hockey enthusiast. There are a lot of things that go on every night in hockey games. What Bertuzzi did was wrong, but the ONLY reason it's being so closely scrutinized is because the general media got wind of it because Moore got hurt. I've seen worse stick fouls this year, which ended in suspensions, but they weren't all over the media. Bertuzzi's being made a scapegoat strictly because the NHL realizes that they are under the spotlight in this particular case.

[Hugh 0ne]

If I re-call there was no penalty on Domi's hit on Niedermayer either. It being or not being a penalty has NOTHING to do with this.

[LegFuJohnson]

I don't remember if there was a penalty, but there was a suspension. So, I guess I should have said there was no penalty or suspension on the hit on Naslund, before disagreeing with Frazia when he claimed the Bertuzzi thing was "just as cheap"

[Down Goes Frazia]

I first said just as violent.... then cheap. wink There was no penalty on either play probably because no ref or lineman saw either play happen. shrug

 

neither Moore or Naslund had the puck when they got hit.

[willi4]

A single gunshot looks violent in isolation......in the context of war, it appears the norm. For non-hockey people to comment on this is ridiculous, as Sensai said. Look at other sports and the violence inflicted all around the professional arenas of the world. As a teacher, it is well understood that we channel youth toward athletics as an outlet for the natural violent tendencies we all have. Sports is about the heat of a "battle," the thrill of vistory, the ecstasy of crushing an opponent. Bertuzzi was caught in a moment honoring a time-honered tradition. What he did would be considered criminal outside the sports world---but the fact remaing he committed the act INSIDE the sports world where we live for moments like this..............Let hockey handle it. Remember the old joke, " I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out?" It's the game.

[untateve]

I don't watch hockey. A main reason is the sport encourages fighting. It's all about ratings.

 

I saw a highlight of the incident in question. I also saw part of bertuzzi's press conference. That individual is a b--tch. No man sucker punches someone and then cries saying I didn't mean to hurt him. Take responsibility for what you did, b---tch.

 

Finally, I believe that betuzzi should be out of hockey only as long as moore is. That would be fair. Once moore is playing again, bertuzzi is welcomed back.

 

And if hockey really wanted to stop fighting, they would assess MANDATORY game suspensions for doing so, no matter whether you start or finish the fight. How many hockey players would fight if they knew by throwing a swing they would automatically be out 10 games?

 

For those of you who watch hockey, feel free to ignore this post from a non-hockey watcher.

[Hugh B Tool]

One simple word for what happened :Retribution smash

 

Plain and simple. Taken too far with the pile on, but I really don't think Tuzz planned on that. Tough dirty game where payback ALWAYS happens. Just a matter of when.

[LegFuJohnson]

I'm glad you mentioned that you didn't watch hockey. Since you don't watch hockey, why do you think you have any idea what makes a suspension "fair"?

I know that you said to ignore this post if I was a hockey watcher, but since you posted it, its going to be read.

 

News flash, hockey doesn't encourage fighting, its not about the ratings. Hockey doesn't get ratings.

(That was for any other non-hockey watchers that might think you were correct)

[LegFuJohnson]

There are penalties for fighting. Would there be less if there were more suspensions? Certainly.

 

You watch football? Wouldn't there be less late hits on quarterbacks if there were game suspensions for late hits? So, are you saying that the NFL doesn't do enough to discourage late hits?

If a non-football watcher turned on a game, saw a brutal late hit, maybe one that knocked a QB out of the game... He/she might think that the DE should have to exit the game as well. But you would know, that as a non-football watcher, he/she wouldn't really know what was fair, and what isn't, right?

[LegFuJohnson]

I don't want to suggest that I'm defending Bertuzzi at all. I totally agree with the suspension he was given. I think this certainly crossed the line over what is retribution, as part of the game. It's just when non-hockey watchers... or more likely non-hockey media members chime in with negative commentary, it kind of annoys me, since they don't seem to have a real basis for what they are saying.

[untateve]

LegFuJohnson:

There are penalties for fighting.  Would there be less if there were more suspensions?  Certainly.

 

You watch football?  Wouldn't there be less late hits on quarterbacks if there were game suspensions for late hits?  So, are you saying that the NFL doesn't do enough to discourage late hits?

If a non-football watcher turned on a game, saw a brutal late hit, maybe one that knocked a QB out of the game...  He/she might think that the DE should have to exit the game as well.  But you would know, that as a non-football watcher, he/she wouldn't really know what was fair, and what isn't, right?

I must respectfully disagree. While there are occasional late hits on QBs in football, as we are talking specifically, the NFL has done a great deal to discourage them. It is rare when a late QB hit takes place. Additionally, sometimes late hits take place because a DE cannot stop his momentum in time. Those are sometimes termed "questionable penalties." I believe the NFL has gone a long way to decrease "dirty" play.

 

However, and you have no reason to believe this than because I say so, it does not matter to me who has an opinion about what. I put more credence into the opinion of one who studies a subject, but everyone gets an opinion. Therefore, as previously mentioned, my opinion may be ignored.

[Hugh 0ne]

untateve:

However, and you have no reason to believe this than because I say so, it does not matter to me who has an opinion about what.  I put more credence into the opinion of one who studies a subject, but everyone gets an opinion.  Therefore, as previously mentioned, my opinion may be ignored.

All opinions are welcomed here at the huddle.

 

Even from non-hockey fan yentas such as yourself. brow

[Hugh 0ne]

untateve:

You asked for one good reason why fighting in hockey should be changed?  Because there is a man with a broken neck in the hospital.  Put honestly, I believe that is a very good reason.

Come on. Why don't we just ban all professional sports so no one gets hurt. What happened Tuesday night had nothing to do with the NHL allowing or not allowing fighting.

[untateve]

Sensai H-1:

 

untateve:

You asked for one good reason why fighting in hockey should be changed?  Because there is a man with a broken neck in the hospital.  Put honestly, I believe that is a very good reason.

Come on. Why don't we just ban all professional sports so no one gets hurt. What happened Tuesday night had nothing to do with the NHL allowing or not allowing fighting.

Here again, I very much disagree. Football is an aggressive and at times, violent sport. Basketball is aggressive, soccer is aggressive, hockey is aggressive. That is the nature of the sport. Sometimes, people will get hurt.

 

I was once hurt in a car accident. I don't advocate the abolition of automobiles.

 

However, if bertuzzi had not punched moore in the temple, his neck would not be broken at this moment. There is no other sport that has as many fights as hockey (except maybe boxing). If that is how hockey fans want it, why penalize at all? Let the men fight, open a brew, and enjoy.

[LegFuJohnson]

What's being missed (an as a non-hockey watcher, it is understandable) is that what happened here was not a fight.

It was misguided retribution for something that happened in a previous game (also not a fight). The rules that have been put in place, specifically to discourage fighting, have lead to a lot of these "incidents". If there was no instigator penalties (which include ejection), then perhaps Bertuzzi, or some other Canuck, would have started a "normal hockey fight" with Moore at the time, and this thing wouldn't have happened.

Again, I'm not defending this, but this really has nothing to do with fighting in the NHL.

[LegFuJohnson]

I never suggested that his actions shouldn't lead to a lengthy suspension, and they have. His suspension, for the season and the playoffs, is probably correct, whether or not Moore is gone for the year, or back next week, or never plays again.

I guess my initial post was just in response to a peeve of judging something out of context.

[Furd]

I like hockey. I like hockey fights. (Where have you gone Bob Probert?)

 

That being said, I would have to disagree with the statement that the Bertuzzi incident "has nothing to do with fighting." Compare the number of Bertuzzi-like incidents in hockey with those from other sports. Could you see a basketball player or a baseball player even attempting something like that? I can only think of the Kermit Washington incident. Washington was reviled. They still show that punch. Do you think that we are going to see replays of the Bertuzzi incident for decades? No way. Because its hockey and that's what you do in hockey. It kind of cracks me up that a player can smash his fist into his opponents face 10-15 times and get a 5 minute penalty, but give your opponent a head butt and you're thrown out of the game for "attempting to injure" your opponent. loco

 

I think, therefore, that the Bertuzzi incident has everything to do with fighting, or at least the atmosphere that is created by league sanctioned fighting.

[untateve]

LegFuJohnson:

I never suggested that his actions shouldn't lead to a lengthy suspension, and they have.  His suspension, for the season and the playoffs, is probably correct, whether or not Moore is gone for the year, or back next week, or never plays again.

I guess my initial post was just in response to a peeve of judging something out of context.

Unlike a few other unnamed huddlers, I am capable of reasonable discourse and admit my ignorance in areas. I agree, as I think about it, that what bertuzzi did was not a "normal hockey fight."

 

I apparently disagree with "true" hockey fans in that I believe there is far too much fighting in hockey.

 

And finally, I still believe that bertuzzi's suspension should last as long as moore is out of hockey.

[Hugh 0ne]

A cheap shot is a cheap shot in any sport. What does it have to do with the NHL allowing fighting? shrug

[Hugh 0ne]

Holy crap, a hockey post made it to page 3. thumbs_u lol And there's been no name-calling. eek!

 

That's right, Sarge isn't a hockey fan. loco

[LegFuJohnson]

Perhaps, instead of stating it had nothing to do with fighting, I should have chosen different wording. I was trying to say that if there was more fighting (in the traditional hockey fighting way), then this incident might not have occurred. Why didn't Bertuzzi, or whoever the Canucks' goons are, go right after Moore after this hit on Naslund? Some good old-time fisticuffs might have ended things awhile ago. But since there are the instigator penalties, 3rd man in the fight penalties, etc.. players have to resort to different measures for payback.

 

So, to say it had nothing to do with fighting, I suppose that was wrong.

[LegFuJohnson]

Holy crap, a hockey post made it to page 3.  

And that's the sad thing. No one watches hockey. It takes something like this to get the nation's attention (I mean the USA, I'm sure Canada always cares about hockey).

[LegFuJohnson]

We could continue it, talking about positive hockey stuff, it just won't get that far. I'm going to Devils v Canadiens next Friday. :P

 

See, it's just not that interesting.

[Grits and Shins]

I haven't read any of the responses but here's my take.

 

It was a cheap shot, a sucker punch from behind. It looked to me like Moore was out cold from the cheap shot and was totally defenseless on the pile drive.

 

Cheap cheap cheap.

 

Bertuzzi should be out at least as long as Moore and banned if Moore's career is over ... out a minimum of 84 games.