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Calipari

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Wow - and Cal told us at the press conference that it would take him 3 to 4 years to rebuild the program.

 

In one month he has brought in

 

***** Cousins

***** Bledsoe

**** Dodson

 

and retained the services of

 

***** Orton

**** Hood

 

and is looking like the frontrunner to land

 

***** Wall

 

If we get Wall, that would give us the #1,2,22,23,40 players in the freshman class and the top ranked JUCO in the country. All indications are that Meeks will be back, while Patterson is 50/50. A Final Four run next year with that nucleus is not out of the question.

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Wow - and Cal told us at the press conference that it would take him 3 to 4 years to rebuild the program.

 

In one month he has brought in

 

***** Cousins

***** Bledsoe

**** Dodson

 

and retained the services of

 

***** Orton

**** Hood

 

and is looking like the frontrunner to land

 

***** Wall

 

If we get Wall, that would give us the #1,2,22,23,40 players in the freshman class and the top ranked JUCO in the country. All indications are that Meeks will be back, while Patterson is 50/50. A Final Four run next year with that nucleus is not out of the question.

 

Check that Patterson percentage, he's withdrawn from the draft. No reason to think Meeks won't do the same since he is projected mid 2nd round at best. I've got to try and temper expectations here, but its tough. I haven't been this excited about a UK team in the offseason since Pitino left.

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Looks like KU v UK in the finals this year is a real possibility...

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Wall commits to UK late last night.

 

This should vault UK into the top 3 preseason. If the talent gels they should be on the NC shortlist. If we get Meeks back they may be preseason #1. I have to thank Billy Gillispie for driving us so far into the ground that we had the sense to bring in a guy like Cal. Way to go BCG!

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Wall commits to UK late last night.

 

This should vault UK into the top 3 preseason. If the talent gels they should be on the NC shortlist. If we get Meeks back they may be preseason #1. I have to thank Billy Gillispie for driving us so far into the ground that we had the sense to bring in a guy like Cal. Way to go BCG!

Boy, you guys had better win the whole thing next year or what a dissapointment that will be. Not to mention those guys are only staying around for a year...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:wacko:

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Boy, you guys had better win the whole thing next year or what a dissapointment that will be. Not to mention those guys are only staying around for a year...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:wacko:

 

Ah yes, the dreaded "crazy expectations" schtick. I still think there's alot of youth at play here, and the team is going to have to come together quickly. We'll have the best PG in the land, the best PF in the land, and with Meeks, the best SG in the land - although its looking like we may not get Meeks back now. Last year you guys had all the preseason pressure, but you also had an experienced group that had been through alot together already. I still think Kansas and MSU should be looked at as the favorites for next year depending on how our guys play together, pick up the Dribble Drive, etc.

 

We certainly have a rabid fan base and the excitement has reached a fever pitch this spring with Cal coming in and rounding up the best class in school history in a matter of weeks. For what its worth, from my standpoint, I'll be happy if we're competitive next year. All I ask is to be in the conversation for the Final Four, which hasnt happened with us since 2005 (far too long for a program like UK.) Will I be dissappointed and pissed off when we lose in the tourney? Of course I will, just like any fan of a power program. Winning a title takes alot of things to go right - avoiding a hot shooter, surviving an off night by your star, no injuries, etc. We really have something to look forward to next season - that's enough for me.

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Question for Kentucky fans. Will you still be fired up about a final four run if the NCAA wipes it from the record in a few years? Mind you, as far as penalties go, that's about as toothless and lame as it gets. However, losing a 30 win season sort of matters to a team that currently holds a slim margin over UNC for most wins of all time.

 

Just sayin'

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Question for Kentucky fans. Will you still be fired up about a final four run if the NCAA wipes it from the record in a few years? Mind you, as far as penalties go, that's about as toothless and lame as it gets. However, losing a 30 win season sort of matters to a team that currently holds a slim margin over UNC for most wins of all time.

 

Just sayin'

 

Det, I'll try to look at this logically and without any bias. I've read the charges in the NCAA Report and first and foremost, all of the national media outlets are running the headline "NCAA alleges MAJOR violations at Memphis." If these two violations weren't attached to 16 pages of the women's golf coach paying players, they wouldn't even be labeled major. For one, Rose (not named but easy to ascertain it was him) allegedly had someone take the SAT for him 2 full months before he committed to Memphis. Does anyone think Cal arranged this or had knowledge of it? Now, information has come out that Rose along with 3 of his teammates had their grades changed on their transcripts to help get them into school...I suppose Cal broke into Simeon High's network, changed the grades for Rose, then the 3 teammates as a favor to Derrick? If Rose had someone take the test for him, it was an inside job, period. Seems oddly similar to what happened with Darrel Arthur at Kansas the year they won the title (no repercussions for Kansas or Self in that case.)

 

The travel is less easily explained, although it seems the guy who received the benefit (Reggie Rose, Derrick's brother,) went on several trips with the team and paid all but once. Could have been an accounting error, maybe Rose forgot to pay once, who knows. RC Johnson has come out and said today that they allow anyone to travel with the team, anytime, if they buy the seat. I seriously doubt Calipari is standing at the door collecting money and updating the spreadsheet.

 

The lesson to be learned in this case is that the NBA is hurting college basketball with the 1 year rule and age limit. Players that know they are NBA ready are spending essentially 6 months in college then leaving. They don't care about getting an education and, in the case of Arthur and allegedly Rose, will go so far as to cheat prior to even getting to college if it will help them.

 

I'd challenge any logical fan to deduce any differently here. The fact is, the NCAA has sent Cal a letter (a PDF was posted on the Louisville Courier Journal's website today) telling him he is not at risk of anything on this Memphis deal. And, the notion that Calipari constantly breaks the rules is farcical. In over 20 years of coaching in college he has a grand total of zero violations and, with these revelations, 2 instances where a player was doing something illegal without his knowledge (and in the latest case, that the player did something before he even committed to Cal's school.)

 

When a man who recruits in the stratosphere like Cal does is coupled with an historic, hated powerhouse like Kentucky, fans and the media are going to come to poor conclusions in the interest of tearing down both. Epic fail in this case though. Cal will be rightfully unscathed by all this (assuming there is any truth to the allegations.)

 

And Det, no, I wouldn't be satisfied to win a title or get to a final four and find out later it was tainted. One of the happiest days of my young life was watching Ben Johnson destroy Carl Lewis in the 1988 Olympics. Four days later the news broke about the roids and the nation mourned like it hadn't since Gretzky was traded to LA.

 

If anything, this incident will just make Sandy Bell (UK compliance director) work that much harder to be sure nothing is getting past her. And I can tell you that she's the best in the business. At the end of the day, while the media will have a field day with this due to the man and the program which he is now affiliated with, nothing will come of it for Cal. He'll continue to recruit top shelf players and Kentucky will put distance between themselves and UNC consistently for the next 8-10 years.

Edited by Cyclones

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I'd challenge any logical fan to deduce any differently here. The fact is, the NCAA has sent Cal a letter (a PDF was posted on the Louisville Courier Journal's website today) telling him he is not at risk of anything on this Memphis deal. And, the notion that Calipari constantly breaks the rules is farcical. In over 20 years of coaching in college he has a grand total of zero violations and, with these revelations, 2 instances where a player was doing something illegal without his knowledge (and in the latest case, that the player did something before he even committed to Cal's school.)

 

When a man who recruits in the stratosphere like Cal does is coupled with an historic, hated powerhouse like Kentucky, fans and the media are going to come to poor conclusions in the interest of tearing down both. Epic fail in this case though. Cal will be rightfully unscathed by all this (assuming there is any truth to the allegations.)

 

Marcus Camby was getting cash while at UMass and Calipari knows nothing about it? Derrick Rose is getting his grades changed and his SATs finagled with and Calipari knows nothing about it? :wacko:

 

You think that a major college basketball coach has more important things going on in the off-season than the academic eligibility of his all-american recruits? Especially those who have failed the SAT's twice already?

 

I'm completely ambivalent towards Kentucky and I do think that Calipari is a heckuva basketball coach, and I'm nearly sure that all major programs have a shenanigan or two going on, but your self-righteous indignation is puke-worthy. You should probably surpass Xavier and Dayton in regional supremacy before flapping your lips about how the media wants your program to fail.

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Marcus Camby was getting cash while at UMass and Calipari knows nothing about it? Derrick Rose is getting his grades changed and his SATs finagled with and Calipari knows nothing about it? :wacko:

 

You think that a major college basketball coach has more important things going on in the off-season than the academic eligibility of his all-american recruits? Especially those who have failed the SAT's twice already?

 

I'm completely ambivalent towards Kentucky and I do think that Calipari is a heckuva basketball coach, and I'm nearly sure that all major programs have a shenanigan or two going on, but your self-righteous indignation is puke-worthy. You should probably surpass Xavier and Dayton in regional supremacy before flapping your lips about how the media wants your program to fail.

 

 

couldn't agree more - let me preface by saying that there are infractions and some form of cheating happening all over the country but good ole Cal is as dirty as anyone -

 

I think the time has come where the NCAA is going to nail Cal and all the coaches that move on leaving infractions in their rear-view mirror, and I do not think Calipari will come out of this unscathed........ you dance with the devil and

 

the honeymoon is already losing some of it's luster

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Care to make a wager on what happens to Cal in this situation? I'll start the bidding at $1000.

 

I can't believe you guys are blaming Calipari for a kid cheating on the SAT TWO MONTHS before he committed to Memphis at a school where FOUR PLAYERS had their grades changed. This reeks so badly of an inside job that I can smell it 6 hours southeast of Chicago where I sit in Lexington.

 

And I'm sure the day Rose signed, he immediately admitted all of this to Cal? "Hey coach, I cheated on my SAT. Can I still play here?"

 

And the notion that the coach is the guy who checks into players grades and SATs is stupid. The NCAA Clearinghouse gave Rose the green light, and Memphis (and every other school in the country) employs someone to make sure of compliance. You guys are being blinded by hate. Logic has been thrown out the window on this deal.

 

UK is going to run roughshod over the rest of college basketball in the next 10 years. Deal with it.

Edited by Cyclones

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UK is going to run roughshod over the rest of college basketball in the next 10 years. Deal with it.

 

:D

 

okay - the fact is Kentucky is looking at their next head coach having 2 final Fours with UMass and Memphis VACATED by the NCAA

 

yet somehow in your twisted logic this is some kind of witch hunt against KU?? huh?

 

reminds me of the Indiana situation - they welcomed Kelvin Sampson with open arms with his past transgressions, mainly due to the fact that he was delivering Eric Gordon, we all know how that turned out.

 

Cal may escape penalties here, but he is taking some major hits nationally, and his reputation will be in the toilet if Memphis is indeed stripped of their Final Four

 

and to answer your question- yes, your damn right Calipari knew something was up with Rose's SAT scores, and academic eligibility - to what degree? who knows, but to think he is some innocent bystander bc this happened before he officially committed is ridiculous

 

have fun :wacko:

 

as a UA guy, I couldn't be happier with straight-shooting Sean Miller - and would take him over any coach in the country

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Although this thread is mostly speculation, I tend to lean towards Wildcats side. Calipari is not guilty of anything that most coaches haven't done but don't paint him to be some innocent lamb caught in the crossfire.

 

You are right about one thing though. If he was OK'd by the NCAA clearinghouse this issiue with Rose is a dead horse.

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Care to make a wager on what happens to Cal in this situation? I'll start the bidding at $1000.

 

I can't believe you guys are blaming Calipari for a kid cheating on the SAT TWO MONTHS before he committed to Memphis at a school where FOUR PLAYERS had their grades changed. This reeks so badly of an inside job that I can smell it 6 hours southeast of Chicago where I sit in Lexington.

 

And I'm sure the day Rose signed, he immediately admitted all of this to Cal? "Hey coach, I cheated on my SAT. Can I still play here?"

 

And the notion that the coach is the guy who checks into players grades and SATs is stupid. The NCAA Clearinghouse gave Rose the green light, and Memphis (and every other school in the country) employs someone to make sure of compliance. You guys are being blinded by hate. Logic has been thrown out the window on this deal.

 

UK is going to run roughshod over the rest of college basketball in the next 10 years. Deal with it.

If there's some kid in Northern Alaska with a mean cross-over and deadly jump shot, I'm pretty sure Cal knows it. Thus, I have a hard time buying the logic that he's incapable of knowing whether or not his top recruit cheated on an SAT. And no, it is not Cal's job to personally look into this. It is, either Cal's job or the AD's job (but on some level both) to make sure that they hire a guy who's actually going to look into this. It's the old adage of "The buck stops here." It's why I think Kiffin's excuse that some assistant was the one who did the twitter thing is not even worth mentioning. Whether Kiffin is personally guilty of the violation or guilty of managing his house so poorly that violations occurred is a rather pointless distinction.

 

If one of my managers fails to act on, say a sexual harassment violation, guess who's fault it ultimately is? Mine, because I'm not taking care of my business and fostering an environment where this sort of thing is not important.

 

That the NCAA isn't going to punish Cal means nothing because the coach almost always skates. But the track record is not good. He's coached two schools, taken both the final four, and it looks like both final four runs are about to be negated. It takes an impressive case of myopia not to implicate the one common element to both those teams.

 

Lastly, why should we expect UK to do any better than Memphis? Which, in fairness, was pretty damned good but not "roughshod over the rest of college basketball". He had two guys go in the first round last year, one 1st overall. Is there some higher talent level that he can tap now? Additionally, Memphis was the absolute best case scenario for building a program because they had absolutely no academic standards. Even the SEC looks down on them in that regard.

 

And seriously, I could care less about UK. I don't recall ever specifically rooting against them except during their annual game v UNC. To be honest, there aren't many teams that I specifically root against and they're certainly not one of them.

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And the notion that the coach is the guy who checks into players grades and SATs is stupid. The NCAA Clearinghouse gave Rose the green light, and Memphis (and every other school in the country) employs someone to make sure of compliance. You guys are being blinded by hate. Logic has been thrown out the window on this deal.

 

The only person blind here is you. :wacko: Get your panties all unbunched and deal with the reality that college basketball is full of sleazy characters. And I figured Dwayne Casey would have taught you that a generation ago.

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Damn, you would think this forum was dominated by a bunch of Louisville fans considering the attitudes in here.

 

Its pretty clear that you guys have joined the "Cal is a cheater, crucify him and UK" mob, when the fact is that neither Cal nor UK are going to be touched at all by this. The only entity in any jeopardy is Memphis, and I have my doubts that anything will even happen to them.

 

Det, let me ask you this one - you're looking for a new chef. A guy responds to your job posting and shows up at the interview with a copy of his resume, his culinary school diploma, and transcript. He interviews well, so you call the school he attended, and they verify his information. You hire the guy - 8 months later the school calls you and says, hey, sorry to tell you this, but that guy's transcript was doctored - here are his real grades.

 

If I was a patron of you restaurant, I'd have to come to the logical conclusion that this was entirely your fault and you ran a "dirty restaurant." That's what you guys are saying here. :wacko:

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Damn, you would think this forum was dominated by a bunch of Louisville fans considering the attitudes in here.

 

Its pretty clear that you guys have joined the "Cal is a cheater, crucify him and UK" mob, when the fact is that neither Cal nor UK are going to be touched at all by this. The only entity in any jeopardy is Memphis, and I have my doubts that anything will even happen to them.

 

Det, let me ask you this one - you're looking for a new chef. A guy responds to your job posting and shows up at the interview with a copy of his resume, his culinary school diploma, and transcript. He interviews well, so you call the school he attended, and they verify his information. You hire the guy - 8 months later the school calls you and says, hey, sorry to tell you this, but that guy's transcript was doctored - here are his real grades.

 

If I was a patron of you restaurant, I'd have to come to the logical conclusion that this was entirely your fault and you ran a "dirty restaurant." That's what you guys are saying here. :wacko:

 

 

a comparison that is so off the mark it isn't even remotely close.

 

get off the UK high horse - no one here really cares about that piece of it, chit

 

this is all about Calipari having 2 final fours wiped off the books b/c he is a cheater

 

I personally hate the fact these coaches cheat and move on leaving a wake of sanctions behind them for the shcool to deal with.

 

Time to make these coaches held accountable moving forward

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a comparison that is so off the mark it isn't even remotely close.

 

get off the UK high horse - no one here really cares about that piece of it, chit

 

this is all about Calipari having 2 final fours wiped off the books b/c he is a cheater

 

I personally hate the fact these coaches cheat and move on leaving a wake of sanctions behind them for the shcool to deal with.

 

Time to make these coaches held accountable moving forward

 

How much do you want to wager that the Memphis final four won't be vacated? I'll start at $1000 on that one too.

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Damn, you would think this forum was dominated by a bunch of Louisville fans considering the attitudes in here.

 

Its pretty clear that you guys have joined the "Cal is a cheater, crucify him and UK" mob, when the fact is that neither Cal nor UK are going to be touched at all by this. The only entity in any jeopardy is Memphis, and I have my doubts that anything will even happen to them.

 

Det, let me ask you this one - you're looking for a new chef. A guy responds to your job posting and shows up at the interview with a copy of his resume, his culinary school diploma, and transcript. He interviews well, so you call the school he attended, and they verify his information. You hire the guy - 8 months later the school calls you and says, hey, sorry to tell you this, but that guy's transcript was doctored - here are his real grades.

 

If I was a patron of you restaurant, I'd have to come to the logical conclusion that this was entirely your fault and you ran a "dirty restaurant." That's what you guys are saying here. :wacko:

Your analogy doesn't really hold any water because there's not a governing body of restaurants in place to insure fair play in this regard. Restaurant patrons and college fans are the same in as much as all they care about is results. However, the restaurant patrons don't have to pretend there's any more to it than that.

 

Nobody is saying that either Cal or UK is going to get nailed on this particular charge. All we are saying is that he is 2 for 2 in terms of coaching programs that just happened to do something bad enough that the NCAA declared their entire season forfeit. So, it's not a massive stretch to think that he just might not run the cleanest program out there.

 

If you must relate it to me, go back the harassment charge issue I brought up. Say I was the head chef or GM of a number of restaurants. At every restaurant I ran, at some point right about the time I left, one of the managers who worked directly below me got called up on some very major sexual harassment charge. Shouldn't the next place I go to be concerned that I might foster an environment where this type of thing is inclined to happen? Sure, I wasn't personally implicated in it but at some point, you have to question how seriously I take doing the right thing.

 

Sure, the whole thing is sleazy and I completely agree that the one and done rule does more to undermine the integrity of the game than anything because these kids, quite simply do not want to be there and absolutely should not have to. It's damned un-American to make them whore themselves for a year before they can get paid to do what they're already qualified to do well.

 

And yes, Cal is not the only coach who bends the rules. Problem is, when this comes up, guys point to the number of secondary violations that K or Roy Williams or others gets like it's all the same thing. But they're called secondary violations for a reason. Playing this card is like a lawyer defending someone up on embezzlement charges asking the jury, "Let he who has never gotten a speeding ticket cast the first stone."

 

The simple fact is, you're not hearing about teams having entire seasons wiped out all the time, so there's obviously a big freaking difference.

 

Oh, and Roy Williams never officially recruited John Wall and got some major grief from his handler because Williams allegedly questioned his character, etc. All of a sudden, he's up on breaking and entering charges and there's been a number of question marks about his scholastic record. So, let's just see how this one pans out.

Edited by detlef

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I'll offer this compromise;

 

Calipari (and plenty of other coaches, its not like the guys he's gotten have not been gone after hard by other schools) recruits kids with character and academic uncertainties which opens him to the possibility that something could go on behind his back. And its happened twice in over 20 years.

 

Maybe its semantics, but I don't automatically think that makes him a "cheater." Risky, yes. But not a cheater.

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I'll offer this compromise;

 

Calipari (and plenty of other coaches, its not like the guys he's gotten have not been gone after hard by other schools) recruits kids with character and academic uncertainties which opens him to the possibility that something could go on behind his back. And its happened twice in over 20 years.

 

Maybe its semantics, but I don't automatically think that makes him a "cheater." Risky, yes. But not a cheater.

I should again add that you can't write, at least my opinion off as "anti-UK", nor can you pretend that the vast majority of those who follow the sport haven't somehow singled him out as particularly shady.

 

But who am I to judge you. I sat in Pac Bell park and cheered when Barry Bonds hit home runs. It's pretty easy to over look this sort of thing when they're on your team.

Edited by detlef

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Det, let me ask you this one - you're looking for a new chef. A guy responds to your job posting and shows up at the interview with a copy of his resume, his culinary school diploma, and transcript. He interviews well, so you call the school he attended, and they verify his information. You hire the guy - 8 months later the school calls you and says, hey, sorry to tell you this, but that guy's transcript was doctored - here are his real grades.

 

If I was a patron of you restaurant, I'd have to come to the logical conclusion that this was entirely your fault and you ran a "dirty restaurant." That's what you guys are saying here. :D

 

Yeah, Derrick Rose answered a posting on craigslist looking for basketball players at the University of Memphis and impressed John Calipari during the interview process so much, he gave him a scholarship. :wacko:

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Yeah, Derrick Rose answered a posting on craigslist looking for basketball players at the University of Memphis and impressed John Calipari during the interview process so much, he gave him a scholarship. :wacko:

 

The point of the analogy GTS is that an entity other than Calipari and even Memphis (The NCAA Clearinghouse) has all the responsibility to clear high school students before they step on campus. Once in college, if grades are being doctored, that falls on the school's compliance department.

 

Now the IHSA is investigating Simeon high school for academic fraud. According to the linked article, the transcripts of Rose and 3 other players were changed to get them eligible for college. But I suppose Cal orchestrated the whole deal, right?

 

Cal must be a cheater

Edited by Cyclones

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The point of the analogy GTS is that an entity other than Calipari and even Memphis (The NCAA Clearinghouse) has all the responsibility to clear high school students before they step on campus. Once in college, if grades are being doctored, that falls on the school's compliance department.

 

Your analogy was completely irrelevant. Of course there are people who have more direct and dirty culpability on their hands with all of this than Calipari, but that's playing a heckuva lot of semantics with things. He's got the excuses and alibis to throw out there that he didn't change the grades, he didn't arrange a test, and he wasn't the compliance officer at Memphis that cleared things with the NCAA.

 

At the very least it indicates that Calipari's oversight of his programs are lax. It doesn't mean he's responsible for the actions of players like Rose and Camby, or by their crew, or the high school coaches, but I'll bet you $1000 they paid him a heckuva lot more per year to run his basketball program at Memphis than they paid the person to do NCAA compliance for the athletic department.

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Your analogy was completely irrelevant. Of course there are people who have more direct and dirty culpability on their hands with all of this than Calipari, but that's playing a heckuva lot of semantics with things. He's got the excuses and alibis to throw out there that he didn't change the grades, he didn't arrange a test, and he wasn't the compliance officer at Memphis that cleared things with the NCAA.

 

At the very least it indicates that Calipari's oversight of his programs are lax. It doesn't mean he's responsible for the actions of players like Rose and Camby, or by their crew, or the high school coaches, but I'll bet you $1000 they paid him a heckuva lot more per year to run his basketball program at Memphis than they paid the person to do NCAA compliance for the athletic department.

 

This is logical and I can agree with it.

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