ryankenn Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I have the Saints D and they are going to be responsible for a win if it stays the same on CBS. I lose otherwise, so I hope they maintain the ruling. I just wonder how far back they will correct, because they stuck with the DFR in Week 12 for the Patriots D when Maroney fumbled and then caused the DFR on the same play to get possession back. Would they correct a stat like this that would affect multiple weeks worth of scores? I don't remember the outrage for the DFR in Week 12, but I guess that's because no TD resulted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Muto Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 The NFFC is giving the Saints DF a TD and Meachem nothing for that play The WCFF is giving Meachem a TD and the Saints DF a turnover for that play but no TD MFL is giving Meachem a TD and the Saints DF a turnover for that play but no TD Amazing that not even different sites can agree on this. Personally I have no idea how the Saints DF gets credit for the TD. In 2003 the fantasy jungle awarded McCardell the TD and not the DF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Fan Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 The NFFC is giving the Saints DF a TD and Meachem nothing for that play The WCFF is giving Meachem a TD and the Saints DF a turnover for that play but no TD MFL is giving Meachem a TD and the Saints DF a turnover for that play but no TD Amazing that not even different sites can agree on this. Personally I have no idea how the Saints DF gets credit for the TD. In 2003 the fantasy jungle awarded McCardell the TD and not the DF I agree. If the reasoning is that the defense became the offense and the offense became the defense, then there is no such thing as a defensive TD. As soon as a guy picks it off, he's on offense then, right? Crazy. The defense should not get a TD when they were on the freakin' bench. The six points belong to Meachem - and I own neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitbull739 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Anyone that has Meachem and did not get a TD got F'd. He was the player that took the ball across the plane for the TD not the defense. If anything, he should get the TD in addition to whoever has the Saints D. Just one of those plays, like when a kicker throws a TD pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Now Yahoo is awarding Meachem 3 TDs. One for the 53 yard reception. And they awarding him 2 TDs for his return TD!!!!!!! One for an Offensive fumble return TD and another for defensive TD. So, they are giving him 2 TDs for the same exact play. And they took away the TD from New Orleans defense. Yahoo has totally f-ed this up. Fortunately, it has no affect on the outcomes in my leagues, but man, what a mess. It should be a TD for New Orleans and a TD for Meachem. Not two TDs for Meachem on a single play! Looks like they are giving him 2 TDs for that same play in IDP leagues. In non IDP leagues Meachem is getting a single TD (offensive fumble return for a TD), fine. But in IDP leagues, Yahoo is mistaknely giving him an offensive fumble return for a TD PLUS a defensive TD for the same play. EDIT: Looks like they are giving him 2 TDs for that same play only in IDP leagues. In non IDP leagues Meachem is getting a single TD (offensive fumble return for a TD), fine. But in IDP leagues, Yahoo is mistaknely giving him an offensive fumble return for a TD PLUS a defensive TD for the same play. Edited December 8, 2009 by Dcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Now Yahoo is awarding Meachem 3 TDs. One for the 53 yard reception. And they awarding him 2 TDs for his return TD!!!!!!! One for an Offensive fumble return TD and another for defensive TD. So, they are giving him 2 TDs for the same exact play. And they took away the TD from New Orleans defense. Yahoo has totally f-ed this up. Fortunately, it has no affect on the outcomes in my leagues, but man, what a mess. It should be a TD for New Orleans and a TD for Meachem. Not two TDs for Meachem on a single play! Looks like they are giving him 2 TDs for that same play in IDP leagues. In non IDP leagues Meachem is getting a single TD (offensive fumble return for a TD), fine. But in IDP leagues, Yahoo is mistaknely giving him an offensive fumble return for a TD PLUS a defensive TD for the same play. EDIT: Looks like they are giving him 2 TDs for that same play only in IDP leagues. In non IDP leagues Meachem is getting a single TD (offensive fumble return for a TD), fine. But in IDP leagues, Yahoo is mistaknely giving him an offensive fumble return for a TD PLUS a defensive TD for the same play. Where are you seeing that yahoo has changed the scoring? In my league the scores have not changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 The answer to this question is easy ... it should be scored according to the rules with which you started the season. Meacham scored on an offensive fumble recovery TD. If your rules don't allow for offensive fumble recovery TDs or don't specifically state that a player always gets credit for TDs he scored regardless of how he scores them then Meacham doesn't get credit. Should it count as a defensive/special teams TD for NO? Was the defensive or special teams unit for NO on the field? Nope ... so they don't get the score (and don't give me that crap about the NO offense became the defense). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Fan Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 The answer to this question is easy ... it should be scored according to the rules with which you started the season. Meacham scored on an offensive fumble recovery TD. If your rules don't allow for offensive fumble recovery TDs or don't specifically state that a player always gets credit for TDs he scored regardless of how he scores them then Meacham doesn't get credit. Should it count as a defensive/special teams TD for NO? Was the defensive or special teams unit for NO on the field? Nope ... so they don't get the score (and don't give me that crap about the NO offense became the defense). This is exactly correct. (Cue the Rodney King quote - Why can't we all just get along?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Not getting any points on that TD for Meacham cost me an 11 game winning streak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Disclaimer: I don't own Meachem in any league nor was I affected by that play in any way. I was going thru some tweets when I clicked on a link by David Richard (CBSsports) and in the comments section of his Meachem play by play discussion I read the following and thought it was an interesting question: What if the clock was down to it's last second, and the Saints were down by 1 before that play?? If Brees threw the INT to Moore, and then Meachem stripped the ball and ran to the 5 yard line, where he was tackled by a facemask......What would happen?Would the game end on that play? Would they not end the game because of a defensive penalty? Do they get the chance to kick a field goal and win it? If so..... Then, the Redskins wouldbe the Defense at that time, and the Saints would be the offense! Of course he is saying that with one second on the clock the clock expires while he is running the ball in and gets tackled at the 5 and is face masked....I think his question is a legitimate one and one we may never know the answer to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Disclaimer: I don't own Meachem in any league nor was I affected by that play in any way. I was going thru some tweets when I clicked on a link by David Richard (CBSsports) and in the comments section of his Meachem play by play discussion I read the following and thought it was an interesting question: Of course he is saying that with one second on the clock the clock expires while he is running the ball in and gets tackled at the 5 and is face masked....I think his question is a legitimate one and one we may never know the answer to. Certainly an interesting question ... however not really relevant to the fantasy football question at hand. Bottom line is that neither the NO defensive unit nor the NO specials unit was on the field during the play ... thus in terms of fantasy football NO def/st is not awarded points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Certainly an interesting question ... however not really relevant to the fantasy football question at hand. Bottom line is that neither the NO defensive unit nor the NO specials unit was on the field during the play ... thus in terms of fantasy football NO def/st is not awarded points. since it is interesting it actually would be relevant...if the NFL awarded the Saints one more play then that says the Saints were technically on Offense...but if they wouldn't give them a play then it would say they were actually the defense...so that would make it relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 since it is interesting it actually would be relevant...if the NFL awarded the Saints one more play then that says the Saints were technically on Offense...but if they wouldn't give them a play then it would say they were actually the defense...so that would make it relevant. I disagree. If you are going to attempt to get that technical then def/st should never score because they second they get the turnover they are on offense. Bottom line fantasy football-wise ... neither of the NO special teams or defensive units were on the field at any time during the play and as such should not be credited with fantasy points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) From the NFL Rulebook: Preface: ...Whenever a team is in possession of the ball, it is the offense, and at such time its opponent is the defense. ... Fumble Article 4 A Fumble is any act, other than a pass or kick, which results in loss of player possession. The term Fumble always implies possession. (8-7-3). Section 36 Team A and B, Offense and Defense Article 1 Whenever a team is in possession (3-2-7), it is the Offense and, at such time, its opponent is the Defense. Article 2 The team that puts the ball in play is Team A, and its opponent is Team B. For brevity, a player of Team A is referred to as A1 and his teammates as A2, A3, etc. Opponents are B1, B2, etc. Note: A team becomes Team A when it has been designated to put ball in play, and it remains Team A until a down ends, even though there might be one or more changes of possession during the down. This is in contrast with the terms Offense and Defense. Team A is always the offense when a down starts, but becomes the defense if and when B secures possession during the down, and vice versa for each change of possession. Article 3 A change of possession occurs when a player of the defensive team secures possession of a ball that has been kicked, passed, or fumbled by a player of the offensive team, or when the ball is awarded to the offensive team, or when the ball is awarded to the opposing team by rule. A change of possession includes but is not limited to: (a) an interception of a forward pass; or (b ) a catch or recovery of a fumble or backward pass; or (c ) a catch or recovery of a Scrimmage Kick, Free Kick, or Fair Catch Kick. (d) when the offensive team fails to reach the line to gain on fourth down. (e) when the offensive team misses a field-goal attempt. Edited December 9, 2009 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 after reading the above I think it is very safe to say that the Meachem TD should be scored as an offensive (fumble recovery) TD...and also it shows that technically the defense can never score a TD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 after reading the above I think it is very safe to say that the Meachem TD should be scored as an offensive (fumble recovery) TD...and also it shows that technically the defense can never score a TD. NFL teams don't get points per yard. NFL teams don't get points per reception. In the NFL field goals aren't worth more than 3 pionts depending on their distance In the NFL teams are not penalized points for turnovers and missed kicks In the NFL teams don't get points for sacks, tackles and turnovers In the NFL teams don't get points for holding opposing teams to under 200 yards of total offense As you can see things are scored differently in fantasy football than they are in the NFL so attempting to quote the NFL rule book isn't really valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) NFL teams don't get points per yard.NFL teams don't get points per reception. In the NFL field goals aren't worth more than 3 pionts depending on their distance In the NFL teams are not penalized points for turnovers and missed kicks In the NFL teams don't get points for sacks, tackles and turnovers In the NFL teams don't get points for holding opposing teams to under 200 yards of total offense As you can see things are scored differently in fantasy football than they are in the NFL so attempting to quote the NFL rule book isn't really valid. when people are trying to debate if he was on offense or defense then I think the NFL rulebook is relevant. People are questioning what possession is etc...you are entitled to your opinion...if someone finds value in how the NFL actually looks at a play then they can use what I provided to form their own opinion. edit: and fwiw I agree with you that it was an offensive fumble recovery TD. and if a league doesn't allow for points for that then a team shouldn't get credit for the meachem TD. Edited December 9, 2009 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 when people are trying to debate if he was on offense or defense then I think the NFL rulebook is relevant. People are questioning what possession is etc...you are entitled to your opinion...if someone finds value in how the NFL actually looks at a play then they can use what I provided to form their own opinion. edit: and fwiw I agree with you that it was an offensive fumble recovery TD. and if a league doesn't allow for points for that then a team shouldn't get credit for the meachem TD. Is this where I am supposed to call you all kinds of names and insult you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Is this where I am supposed to call you all kinds of names and insult you? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I stand corrected on what I said earlier....they always credited the Defense and never gave it to Meachem as a WR (sportsline)...I saw him with a TD and never thought he would have had 2... jeebus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Why? I thought it was the way of the world ... to exchange insults after some back and forth? You mean it isn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Muto Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 The answer to this question is easy ... it should be scored according to the rules with which you started the season. Meacham scored on an offensive fumble recovery TD. If your rules don't allow for offensive fumble recovery TDs or don't specifically state that a player always gets credit for TDs he scored regardless of how he scores them then Meacham doesn't get credit. Should it count as a defensive/special teams TD for NO? Was the defensive or special teams unit for NO on the field? Nope ... so they don't get the score (and don't give me that crap about the NO offense became the defense). Go try telling the NFFC this. They are holding fast on it was a def TD for NO. So no matter what any of our opinions are it does not matter the contest owners are going to do what they are going to do. I tried to argue that the NO DF is not on the field at the start of the play..to no avail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Go try telling the NFFC this. They are holding fast on it was a def TD for NO. So no matter what any of our opinions are it does not matter the contest owners are going to do what they are going to do. I tried to argue that the NO DF is not on the field at the start of the play..to no avail. I can't believe some people. So if it were Drew Brees who pulled that ball away and not Meachum they'd be arguing Drew Brees is a member of the New Orleans Defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Go try telling the NFFC this. They are holding fast on it was a def TD for NO. So no matter what any of our opinions are it does not matter the contest owners are going to do what they are going to do. I tried to argue that the NO DF is not on the field at the start of the play..to no avail. what needs to be set aside is that there are offensive and defensive players...because on any given play a player can be an offense then a defensive then an offensive player again...just depends on how many times possession changes.... IMO by the strictest interpretation of the NFL Rules it should be scored points for NO DEF for the Fumble Recovery (and points if your league scores for forced fumbles) and then an Offensive FUMBLE recovery for a TD. and for the record in the NFLs eye Meachem started the play on Offense then became a defender once it was intercepted and then back to offense once he recovered the fumble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) I can't believe some people. So if it were Drew Brees who pulled that ball away and not Meachum they'd be arguing Drew Brees is a member of the New Orleans]Defense. according to NFL Rules Brees was a defender as soon as the interception happened. Edited December 9, 2009 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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