Jump to content
[[Template core/front/custom/_customHeader is throwing an error. This theme may be out of date. Run the support tool in the AdminCP to restore the default theme.]]

Did you know people are poor?


WaterMan
 Share

Recommended Posts

We all agree with that but the original article was about the increase in people on food stamps. Immediately the right wing parrots started droning on about how everyone on food stamps is a waster. I posted my article to show that is a total crock of $hit.

 

Furthermore, there was another article in the Trib today on people who are working more hours for less pay and how $70k jobs have been replaced by $20k jobs. The Ford plant in St Paul has people doing the same job as before they were laid off but at half the wage. Continental Airlines used the simple tactic of demoting 150 airline captains to First Officer and halving their pay.

 

See a pattern here? I can pull out hundreds of examples of this and the received wisdom about the feckless poor is just outdated. The simple fact is that parroting the same tired old crap just doesn't fit any more. Food stamps - the new normal.

 

Exactly right and well said.

 

I know a LOT of people that have had to swallow their pride and accept public assistance right now because they HAVE to, not because they are "drinking red bull".

 

Ignorance is bliss for some people . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 284
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I know! Lets start a thread that states obvious things we are opposed to!

 

I'll start!

 

I am against killing cute fluffy bunnies with machetes in front of young children.

 

Who else wants to contribute?

 

Why do you hate edged weapons? :wacko: You are clearly a knife-control wacko. I'll bet you've never had to draw down an Arkansas toothpick on a bat-wielding Messican, have you?

Edited by cre8tiff
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate people that abuse the system. There are so many people that cheat the assistance programs. There are a lot of people who need and deserve assistance - I have nothing against that.

 

A week ago I saw a lady use food stamps to buy a bunch of milk at a gas station here and she then goes and sells that same milk at her little convenience store a few miles away. The people at the counter have said they reported her many times but nothing happens. These are the people I am talking about.

 

Forgive me for not shedding a tear for every unfortunate person in this country.

 

For every individual you have seen, there are hundreds of people that are currently in financial hell and trying to get back on track.

 

It is NOT the exception that matters, it is the MAJORITY.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly right and well said.

 

I know a LOT of people that have had to swallow their pride and accept public assistance right now because they HAVE to, not because they are "drinking red bull".

 

Ignorance is bliss for some people . .

 

Am I missing something? I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you. I think they (those right-wing parrots you speak of) completely understand that the economic net we provide for people is exactly for these types of circumstances. What it's not there for is for the people who make it a lifelong event. No one is arguing that we should stop it. More than anything it needs to be monitored better to prevent the scamming that does go on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am I missing something? I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you. I think they (those right-wing parrots you speak of) completely understand that the economic net we provide for people is exactly for these types of circumstances. What it's not there for is for the people who make it a lifelong event. No one is arguing that we should stop it. More than anything it needs to be monitored better to prevent the scamming that does go on.

 

You need to read the entire thread. What you are stating is a rhetorical question that i doubt ANYONE supports . . . besides some on these boards that think that welfare and food stamps are being used by MOSt as some kind of career.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For every individual you have seen, there are hundreds of people that are currently in financial hell and trying to get back on track.

 

It is NOT the exception that matters, it is the MAJORITY.

I guess I agree. I have taken back everything I said and I will start over...

 

In response to the article I think it is horrible that so many people need assistance. Every person who gets assistance needs it and nobody cheats the system. Anyone who says anything against people who abuse the assistance program is a an idiot and should not be allowed to offer any opinion. Every person in this world who happens to be poor is that way because of something else in this world that caused it - there is no way it was caused by there own doing and if you don't agree with this you are a bad person who kills bunnies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I agree. I have taken back everything I said and I will start over...

 

In response to the article I think it is horrible that so many people need assistance. Every person who gets assistance needs it and nobody cheats the system. Anyone who says anything against people who abuse the assistance program is a an idiot and should not be allowed to offer any opinion. Every person in this world who happens to be poor is that way because of something else in this world that caused it - there is no way it was caused by there own doing and if you don't agree with this you are a bad person who kills bunnies.

And here comes the poor widdle me card........:wacko:

 

Good grief, neither me nor BP disagrees that welfare cheats should be rooted out but your knee jerk reaction will one day make you feel really silly when it's you that needs public assistance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I agree. I have taken back everything I said and I will start over...

 

In response to the article I think it is horrible that so many people need assistance. Every person who gets assistance needs it and nobody cheats the system. Anyone who says anything against people who abuse the assistance program is a an idiot and should not be allowed to offer any opinion. Every person in this world who happens to be poor is that way because of something else in this world that caused it - there is no way it was caused by there own doing and if you don't agree with this you are a bad person who kills bunnies.

 

I am glad you have seen the light. :wacko::D

 

gbpfan, I think EVERYONE agrees with you on abuse of the system. that is why blanket comments are ignorant as the do not represent that majority of people that dont abuse the system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For every individual you have seen, there are hundreds of people that are currently in financial hell and trying to get back on track.

 

It is NOT the exception that matters, it is the MAJORITY.

I hear what you and Ursa are saying and you both make good points. I am in no way trying to suggest that everyone on assistance is a lazy bum or anything like that. I know that there are people who have run on hard times and are struggling to get by. As I said before, my heart goes out to these folks. This (from the article)...

Nearly half of all U.S. children and 90 percent of black youngsters will be on food stamps at some point during childhood, and fallout from the current recession could push those numbers even higher, researchers say.

 

The estimate comes from an analysis of 30 years of national data, and it bolsters other recent evidence on the pervasiveness of youngsters at economic risk. It suggests that almost everyone knows a family who has received food stamps, or will in the future, said lead author Mark Rank, a sociologist at Washington University in St. Louis.

...says this isnt all due to recent economic troubles, though.

 

Its a known fact, though, that there are a lot of people who lean on/abuse the assistance programs and many of thse people continue to bring children into their lives of poverty. Its these people who drain the system and help ensure poverty continues to be the problem that it is.

 

Furthermore, the article Waterman posted says 90% of kids(especially amongst minorities) will be on stamps at some point yet childhood obesity is a hugh problem(especially amongst minorities). This suggests to me that the help a lot of people are getting is not being used intelligently and that, too, is draining the systems and perpetuating the cycle.

Edited by Delicious_bass
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You need to read the entire thread. What you are stating is a rhetorical question that i doubt ANYONE supports . . . besides some on these boards that think that welfare and food stamps are being used by MOSt as some kind of career.

 

I did read the entire thread. What I think Perch and others are doing are trying to break down the numbers. Simply saying "1/2 of all US children are poor" MAY be true and will gain you a lot of sympathy votes but who's asking the hard questions? Why are so many children poor? Why are there so many children with poor people? Why is said poor person continuing to make the same mistakes over and over which we have to cover every single time? We are in an ethical dilemma because we MUST take care of the children, regardless of how they got in the situation they are in. But how do we solve the problem? Do we have to give everyone in the US $100/hr jobs?

 

Again, not ALL poor people are scamming the system. I don't believe that is the case at all. A lot of what I saw when I used to work in the economically disadvantaged area I worked in was that it was a cycle. Kid grows up and watches mom and/or dad on food stamps/assistance and they grow up and do the same - and then their kids do it and so on and so forth. It's a sad, vicious circle and we have to find some way to break it. I, unfortunately, don't have the answer on how to do that. Do you? Or do we simply just keep throwing money at it hoping it all gets magically fixed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You need to read the entire thread. What you are stating is a rhetorical question that i doubt ANYONE supports . . . besides some on these boards that think that welfare and food stamps are being used by MOSt as some kind of career.

I went back and read the beginning and it seems like your first post did not have much to do about the article that was even posted and was more of an attempt to get the righties, or Foxulists as you put it, into this exact discussion. I think you accomplished what you set out to do.

 

I hear what you are saying and I agree that there are a lot of people who have fallen on hard times and that sucks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went back and read the beginning and it seems like your first post did not have much to do about the article that was even posted and was more of an attempt to get the righties, or Foxulists as you put it, into this exact discussion. I think you accomplished what you set out to do.

 

I hear what you are saying and I agree that there are a lot of people who have fallen on hard times and that sucks.

 

Yeah, he apparently did a good job because I bit. doh!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hear what you and Ursa are saying and you both make good points. I am in no way trying to suggest that everyone on assistance is a lazy bum or anything like that. I know that there are people who have run on hard times and are struggling to get by. As I said before, my heart goes out to these folks.

 

Its a known fact, though, that there are a lot of people who lean on/abuse the assistance programs and many of thse people continue to bring children into their lives of poverty. Its these people who drain the system and help ensure poverty continues to be the problem that it is.

 

Furthermore, the article Waterman posted says 90% of kids(especially amongst minorities) will be on stamps at some point yet childhood obesity is a hugh problem(especially amongst minorities). This suggests to me that the help a lot of people are getting is not being used intelligently and that, too, is draining the systems and perpetuating the cycle.

 

Now THAT is an intelligent post on the subject!! Well done!! :D

 

I think the factors of a very unequitable public education system has a lot to do with this. If the poor do not get a decent education that teaches them proper nutrition and give them skills to get themselves OUT of poverty, then it is an endless, vicious circle. The constant flow of manufacturing jobs that leave the US that can employ Americans with lower skill sets sure doesnt help.

 

The right questions just arent being asked . . . like how can we try and provide jobs that pay a living wage to these people? How can we improve the education system to prepare people in lower incomes for LIFE in general? (like how to balance a checkbook or make a nutritious meal?)

 

Unfortunately the answers to these questions are waaaay too widespread and do not have easy answers like "poor people just buy red bull and smokes". The "No Child Left Behind" had a noble idea, but horribly bungled in execution. Instead of uplifting the education system, it told the teachers to just "teach to the test" that doesnt have tangible real life advantages to it.

 

Then you add in the fact that college is returning to be a "refuge of the rich" and most middle-class jobs require college degrees and you further stratisfy the classes into haves and have-nots. Residual family wealth becomes almost a prerequisate and the fallacy of "the american dream" becomes even more of a fantasy than ever.

 

:rant over: :wacko:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now THAT is an intelligent post on the subject!! Well done!! :D

 

I think the factors of a very unequitable public education system has a lot to do with this. If the poor do not get a decent education that teaches them proper nutrition and give them skills to get themselves OUT of poverty, then it is an endless, vicious circle. The constant flow of manufacturing jobs that leave the US that can employ Americans with lower skill sets sure doesnt help.

 

The right questions just arent being asked . . . like how can we try and provide jobs that pay a living wage to these people? How can we improve the education system to prepare people in lower incomes for LIFE in general? (like how to balance a checkbook or make a nutritious meal?)

 

Unfortunately the answers to these questions are waaaay too widespread and do not have easy answers like "poor people just buy red bull and smokes". The "No Child Left Behind" had a noble idea, but horribly bungled in execution. Instead of uplifting the education system, it told the teachers to just "teach to the test" that doesnt have tangible real life advantages to it.

 

Then you add in the fact that college is returning to be a "refuge of the rich" and most middle-class jobs require college degrees and you further stratisfy the classes into haves and have-nots. Residual family wealth becomes almost a prerequisate and the fallacy of "the american dream" becomes even more of a fantasy than ever.

 

:rant over: :wacko:

 

Good job, BP. I agree with ALL of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went back and read the beginning and it seems like your first post did not have much to do about the article that was even posted and was more of an attempt to get the righties, or Foxulists as you put it, into this exact discussion. I think you accomplished what you set out to do.

 

I hear what you are saying and I agree that there are a lot of people who have fallen on hard times and that sucks.

 

Actually I severly doubted that this (like a lot of other threads) would actually evolve into a intelligent discussion. All too often discussions rarely get started that actually DISCUSS substantiative issues that do not get derailed by irrelevancies that distract from the topic at hand. Just like Obama and the birthers.

 

Any response to my other post?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now THAT is an intelligent post on the subject!! Well done!! :D

 

I think the factors of a very unequitable public education system has a lot to do with this. If the poor do not get a decent education that teaches them proper nutrition and give them skills to get themselves OUT of poverty, then it is an endless, vicious circle. The constant flow of manufacturing jobs that leave the US that can employ Americans with lower skill sets sure doesnt help.

 

The right questions just arent being asked . . . like how can we try and provide jobs that pay a living wage to these people? How can we improve the education system to prepare people in lower incomes for LIFE in general? (like how to balance a checkbook or make a nutritious meal?)

 

Unfortunately the answers to these questions are waaaay too widespread and do not have easy answers like "poor people just buy red bull and smokes". The "No Child Left Behind" had a noble idea, but horribly bungled in execution. Instead of uplifting the education system, it told the teachers to just "teach to the test" that doesnt have tangible real life advantages to it.

 

Then you add in the fact that college is returning to be a "refuge of the rich" and most middle-class jobs require college degrees and you further stratisfy the classes into haves and have-nots. Residual family wealth becomes almost a prerequisate and the fallacy of "the american dream" becomes even more of a fantasy than ever.

 

:rant over: :wacko:

Good post and I agree with it all. Can you also throw a bone my way....

 

You say that we don't have easy answers like "poor people just buy red bull and smokes" - you have to admit that there is way too much of this.

 

I think Ursa mentioned something about what would happen if I went on assistance. I can't guarantee that that won't happen - who knows - but I can guarantee you that luxuries that I spend money on would stop. I don't smoke or drink Red Bull but if I did I would stop. I golf a lot in the summer and I would stop. Right now I have HBO and the Sunday ticket and if I was on Govt assistance I would not. There are not enough people that do these kind of things and that is what gets people angry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good post and I agree with it all. Can you also throw a bone my way....

 

You say that we don't have easy answers like "poor people just buy red bull and smokes" - you have to admit that there is way too much of this.

 

I think Ursa mentioned something about what would happen if I went on assistance. I can't guarantee that that won't happen - who knows - but I can guarantee you that luxuries that I spend money on would stop. I don't smoke or drink Red Bull but if I did I would stop. I golf a lot in the summer and I would stop. Right now I have HBO and the Sunday ticket and if I was on Govt assistance I would not. There are not enough people that do these kind of things and that is what gets people angry.

 

I completely agree, and that is where the "rhetorical" nature comes in. I dont know of ANYONE that can defend actions like that. All that can be done is try to improve the education and support systems that try to teach them what the RIGHT decsions are.

 

Case in point, when you have food stamps, you cant trade them for smokes or alcohol, only food. In WI, then even say what you can and cannot buy in the food staore, which (hopefully) helps people to start changing their nutrition.

 

 

I felt like Will Ferrell In "Old School" during the debate with James Carville . . "What happened, I blacked out . . ." :wacko:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Ursa mentioned something about what would happen if I went on assistance. I can't guarantee that that won't happen - who knows - but I can guarantee you that luxuries that I spend money on would stop. I don't smoke or drink Red Bull but if I did I would stop. I golf a lot in the summer and I would stop. Right now I have HBO and the Sunday ticket and if I was on Govt assistance I would not. There are not enough people that do these kind of things and that is what gets people angry.

I'd also cut everything I could too.

 

It might be the relatively few freeloaders that get you angry as they shave off their take from your taxes but I'll save my rage for the $hitbag investment bankers at the other end of the scale who wiped out ten years of savings across the country, rich and poor alike. I'll take the few thousand or so freeloaders and their $500 welfare check over the scum bank bastards every day and twice on Sunday.

 

None of that filth is on food stamps.

Edited by Ursa Majoris
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd also cut everything I could too.

 

It might be the relatively few freeloaders that get you angry as they shave off their take from your taxes but I'll save my rage for the $hitbag investment bankers at the other end of the scale who wiped out ten years of savings across the country, rich and poor alike. I'll take the few thousand or so freeloaders and their $500 welfare check over the scum bank bastards every day and twice on Sunday.

 

None of that filth is on food stamps.

This is where we are different. I won't save my rage for any of them and I will not take the few thousand or so freeloaders. All are trash. I think you agree - I am just making a point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd also cut everything I could too.

 

It might be the relatively few freeloaders that get you angry as they shave off their take from your taxes but I'll save my rage for the $hitbag investment bankers at the other end of the scale who wiped out ten years of savings across the country, rich and poor alike. I'll take the few thousand or so freeloaders and their $500 welfare check over the scum bank bastards every day and twice on Sunday.

 

None of that filth is on food stamps.

Rich, poor, or in the middle...I think we may all agree that $hitbags who manipulate/break the rules are a problem :wacko:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd also cut everything I could too.

 

It might be the relatively few freeloaders that get you angry as they shave off their take from your taxes but I'll save my rage for the $hitbag investment bankers at the other end of the scale who wiped out ten years of savings across the country, rich and poor alike. I'll take the few thousand or so freeloaders and their $500 welfare check over the scum bank bastards every day and twice on Sunday.

 

None of that filth is on food stamps.

 

A key part of the overall problem is the people you describe. It is a clever trick (just like a magician) for the privileged to point at "welfare moms driving escalades" whether they exist or not to focus the attention of the mob. That keeps the heat off the real "thieves" of the system . . . :wacko:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We all agree with that but the original article was about the increase in people on food stamps. Immediately the right wing parrots started droning on about how everyone on food stamps is a waster. I posted my article to show that is a total crock of $hit.

 

Maybe if you actually read what we wrote instead of assuming what we wrote. Look back at my post (post #3). My point was the reason so many people will participate in food stamps or other forms of welfare is there is no longer the stigma associated with them that there once was. Many people no longer look at these assistance programs as a last resort. Used too, people had too much pride to take assistance until they were nearly starving to death. Now they take pride in working the system. It isn't so much an indictment on the poor, as it is to those on the borderline who in decades past took pride in their independence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A key part of the overall problem is the people you describe. It is a clever trick (just like a magician) for the privileged to point at "welfare moms driving escalades" whether they exist or not to focus the attention of the mob. That keeps the heat off the real "thieves" of the system . . . :wacko:

 

They are all thieves in that respect, regardless of where they come from. Rich point at the welfare moms (and dads) and the welfare moms (and dads) point at the rich and say the same thing. All the while, both are stealing. A thief by any different colors is still a thief.

Edited by tosberg34
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And here comes the poor widdle me card........:wacko:

 

Good grief, neither me nor BP disagrees that welfare cheats should be rooted out but your knee jerk reaction will one day make you feel really silly when it's you that needs public assistance.

 

Who the hell is syaing "poor me". You pull this crap more and more lately. I know it is a left wing talking point, but it gets old. You see stuff that just isn't there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe if you actually read what we wrote instead of assuming what we wrote. Look back at my post (post #3). My point was the reason so many people will participate in food stamps or other forms of welfare is there is no longer the stigma associated with them that there once was. Many people no longer look at these assistance programs as a last resort. Used too, people had too much pride to take assistance until they were nearly starving to death. Now they take pride in working the system. It isn't so much an indictment on the poor, as it is to those on the borderline who in decades past took pride in their independence.

 

I live in what was once called the textile capital of the world. The parents and grandparents were the cheap laborers. Now days all those jobs are gone. Back then, money was worth something. Now there are no jobs and prices for everything have sky rocketed way faster than salaries. So people here have two options, unless they are lucky enough to still have a good job or born into the right family, 1) move 2) get government assistance.

 

In my area of South Carolina it's not about having that rugged individualism, it's about surviving. The senior citizens who had that attitude during the 60's and 70's now collect social security. I don't know of many old people who turn that down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information