gbpfan1231 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 It is amazing that elcting one guy would somehow completely alter every single person that works in gubmnet and suddenly make every single politicians . . and their staffs . . and every other gubmnet employee . . . suddenly reverse decades of doing business a certain way. First Obama is blasted for trying to institute change. Then when he cant exert his superman powers to reverse the entire flow of gubmnet, he is blasted for not "changing" things. Yea but was that not basically his platform? Basically preaching on hope and change and along with his "heritage" those things had a lot to do with him being elected. So with not being able to do his platform what are we left (no pun intended) with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Yea but was that not basically his platform? Basically preaching on hope and change and along with his "heritage" those things had a lot to do with him being elected. So with not being able to do his platform what are we left (no pun intended) with? Actually he IS a huge change from Bush . . he HAS changed the do-nothing administration, and he HAS changed the perception in the world that transformed us from being a laughingstock under Bush to a respected responsible world power again. Not to mention the fact that his administration has actually started addressing the health care problems in our country . . . Seems like there was a lot "change" already in the first year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) Actually he IS a huge change from Bush . . he HAS changed the do-nothing administration, and he HAS changed the perception in the world that transformed us from being a laughingstock under Bush to a respected responsible world power again. Not to mention the fact that his administration has actually started addressing the health care problems in our country . . . Seems like there was a lot "change" already in the first year I'm don't agree that he has transformed the US to a respectable nation. I believe that the world nations respect power, not weakness as displayed by the Obama Butt Kissing Tour earlier this year. At least with Bush you knew that he meant what he said and if you didn't go along with him, well, then you roll the dice. Now, he could be doing stuff behind the scenes that we don't know about, but at this point I believe the world views us as much weaker than with the previous administration. Edited January 3, 2010 by tosberg34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 I'm don't agree that he has transformed the US to a respectable nation. I believe that the world nations respect power, not weakness as displayed by the Obama Butt Kissing Tour earlier this year. At least with Bush you knew that he meant what he said and if you didn't go along with him, well, then you roll the dice. Now, he could be doing stuff behind the scenes that we don't know about, but at this point I believe the world views us as much weaker than with the previous administration. It's not going to make any difference to you since you're Perch by another name and wouldn't give Obama credit if he bought you gold bars, but it is beyond dispute that the new Afghanistan policy is a vast improvement on the old. This includes massive increase in the use of Predators to kill terrorists in droves - and inside Pakistan too. The fact it took time to emerge is also encouraging, IMO - all views and options weighed before jumping in, unlike a recent administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) It's not going to make any difference to you since you're Perch by another name and wouldn't give Obama credit if he bought you gold bars, but it is beyond dispute that the new Afghanistan policy is a vast improvement on the old. This includes massive increase in the use of Predators to kill terrorists in droves - and inside Pakistan too. The fact it took time to emerge is also encouraging, IMO - all views and options weighed before jumping in, unlike a recent administration. That's where you're wrong. It MAY make a difference if I see gold bars. And I'm not so sure the new Afghan strategy is really an different than the old - except with less troops and a timeline (so our enemies can wait us out). However, I can reverse it and say the same thing about you with the Bush administration to try an minimize your opinion. So, please enough with the insults already. The fact that I don't agree with you doesn't make my opinion any less valid than yours. And the fact that Perch and I may be similar on some issues doesn't make me Perch, just as it doesn't make you "Yukon Cornelious" or "bpwallace". If you can't state your side without attacking the messenger, then you've lost the argument. Edited January 3, 2010 by tosberg34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) And I'm not so sure the new Afghan strategy is really an different than the old - except with less troops and a timeline (so our enemies can wait us out). Less troops? Any thoughts on the increased Predator use? Edit: And feel free to post a list of the Bush administration achievements over 8 years. Shouldn't take long. Edited January 3, 2010 by Ursa Majoris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 And I'm not so sure the new Afghan strategy is really an different than the old - except with less troops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Less troops? Any thoughts on the increased Predator use? Edit: And feel free to post a list of the Bush administration achievements over 8 years. Shouldn't take long. Sorry, I meant to say similar to the old Iraqi strategy. And when I say less troops, it means less than what was requested by McCrystal (originally 50K, then 40K and finallly Obama gave him 30K). However, I like the increased Predator use. As far as the list of accomplishments - you'll have to wait on that one as I'm just about to run some errands. In the meantime, you could give me a list of Obama's accomplishments if you like. I'm sure that won't take long either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 In the meantime, you could give me a list of Obama's accomplishments if you like. I'm sure that won't take long either. You can start here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/pr...se-kept/?page=1 Then here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/pr...se-kept/?page=2 then here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/pr...se-kept/?page=3 then here http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/pr...se-kept/?page=4 And this is less than one year. Again, according to the right wingers he is either ruining America as we know it or he hasn't done anything. While whining about anything and everything there still should be some consistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 You can start here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/pr...se-kept/?page=1 Then here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/pr...se-kept/?page=2 then here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/pr...se-kept/?page=3 then here http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/pr...se-kept/?page=4 And this is less than one year. Again, according to the right wingers he is either ruining America as we know it or he hasn't done anything. While whining about anything and everything there still should be some consistency. Mission Accomplished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 I believe that the world nations respect power, . So you think the world respects Ahminijad, the regime in North Korea and Russia over the US then? On a global stage, it has been amply demostrated throughout history that "grown up" nations use diplomancy and reason and only use power and armed force as a last resort. Despots and empires use force instead of diplomacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 . The fact that I don't agree with you doesn't make my opinion any less valid than yours. Actually if people post facts that disprove your "opinions" then they are not attacking you, they are merely pointing out that your information is based on a flawed premise. You can still keep saying the world is flat, but it doesnt make it valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 At least with Bush you knew that he meant what he said "This act will not stand; we will find those who did it; we will smoke them out of their holes; we will get them running and we'll bring them to justice." "And, again, I don't know where he [Osama Bin Laden] is. I — I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him." Which time did he mean what he said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 "This act will not stand; we will find those who did it; we will smoke them out of their holes; we will get them running and we'll bring them to justice." "And, again, I don't know where he [Osama Bin Laden] is. I — I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him." Which time did he mean what he said? When he said, "Mission Accomplished." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 When he said, "Mission Accomplished." It wasn't when he said "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road."? W sure meant what he said and said what he meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Actually if people post facts that disprove your "opinions" then they are not attacking you, they are merely pointing out that your information is based on a flawed premise. You can still keep saying the world is flat, but it doesnt make it valid. Yeah, thanks Bp, but I don't know what you're talking about here. I posted nothing that needed refuting. His comment comparing me to Perch was what I was talking about: It's not going to make any difference to you since you're Perch by another name and wouldn't give Obama credit if he bought you gold bars That's simply not true - I love gold bars. Besides, I'm really, really trying to give Obama a fair shake but he's not making it easy. And as far as Obama's Afghan strategy being "beyond dispute" as being better, well, that simply isn't true either. It's nothing more than a page out of the Bush Administrations play book with a timeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Yeah, thanks Bp, but I don't know what you're talking about here. I posted nothing that needed refuting. His comment comparing me to Perch was what I was talking about: That's simply not true - I love gold bars. Besides, I'm really, really trying to give Obama a fair shake but he's not making it easy. And as far as Obama's Afghan strategy being "beyond dispute" as being better, well, that simply isn't true either. It's nothing more than a page out of the Bush Administrations play book with a timeline. Got that achievement list ready yet? It should be at least eight times longer than Obama's four-page one year "promises kept" list, already posted while you were away. I look forward to reading the 32 page list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Got that achievement list ready yet? It should be at least eight times longer than Obama's four-page one year "promises kept" list, already posted while you were away. I look forward to reading the 32 page list. Don't have the list yet but don't hold your breath. I'm not defending the GWB administration. Also, directing me to a left-leaning website like politifact (which is an offshoot of another left leaning newspaper - St.Petersburg Times) showing me Obama's accomplishments is not really something that strengthens your case. And as far as a list of accomplishments, that's all relative to what side of the political aisle you are standing on. For example, if Obama signed legislation that outlawed soda pop, YOU might consider that an accomplishment. I, on the other hand, would not. However, with that being said, I'm still foraging through the links you sent me to what they consider accomplishments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 I'm not defending the GWB administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mucca Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 This is my favorite one. No. 502: Get his daughters a puppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mucca Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 This is my second favotite, it might come in handy after the takeover. No. 380: Bolster the military's ability to speak different languages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 This is my second favotite, it might come in handy after the takeover. No. 380: Bolster the military's ability to speak different languages Farsi and Arabic are useful things to know, methinks. The program was begun in 2005 by the DoD, BTW, but it's been slow going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 This is my favorite one. No. 502: Get his daughters a puppy. And this is exactly the kind of fluff that the more liberal citizens of the USA consider an "accomplishment". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Farsi and Arabic are useful things to know, methinks. The program was begun in 2005 by the DoD, BTW, but it's been slow going. So I guess this was under GWB's administration then, wasn't it? Well, there you have it. Accomplishment #1 by GWB attributed to Obama. But is this really an accomplishment? Or a "yeah, that's nice"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 How about this one: No. 427: Ban lobbyist gifts to executive employees But it is OK to gift things to congressman if they vote for your health care bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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