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Azazello1313

great interview on health care

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Oh I know . . . but then he goes on to blame the gubment, but mysteriously insurance companies are not mentioned. :wacko:

 

If this whole health care reform actually went after insurance companies and encouraged more transparancy in medical billing practices, then it might actually benefit the consumers.

Transparency? You mean the same type of transparency we were promised during the campaign? That kind of transparency? :D

Edited by caddyman

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Transparency? You mean the same type of transparency we were promised during the campaign? That kind of transparency? :wacko:

 

We get it . . . you dont like Obama . . . now move along and let the adults talk ., . . :D

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Oh I know . . . but then he goes on to blame the gubment, but mysteriously insurance companies are not mentioned. :wacko:

 

If this whole health care reform actually went after insurance companies and encouraged more transparancy in medical billing practices, then it might actually benefit the consumers.

 

What would you like them to go after the insurance companie for? The insurance companies do not control the medical billing practices.

 

Look back at my hypothetical scenario of car insurance suddenly covering maintenance and tell me how you think people would react in that situation. Would they go to a different shop or just keep doing the same thing and complaining about rising insurance costs?

 

No matter where you want to place the blame, health care or the insurance companies, I do not think any real reform will ever happen unless the consumer starts footing the bill. Even if the government goes after insurance companies and demands transparancy in medical billing practices, people will still not look past their deductible and/or co-pay.

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As Mr. Bush sees it, the profound problem with U.S. health care is that there's "no landscape of choices, or choosers." Due to the complexity of America's third-party laundromat for health dollars—your doctor's clerical staff bills your treatment to an insurance company picked by your employer, and it pays him with your money via premiums or foregone wages—"few doctors in America know the actual value of the services they render."

 

Soooo according to Mr. Bush, the problem seems to be govt . . . and NOT insurance companies huh? So when an insurance company determines what doctor I can go to and what each procedure costs . . somehow that is the gubments fault? :wacko:

 

 

:D the quote you're responding to doesn't even mention the government. :D

 

he blames "America's third-party laundromat for health dollars", then mentions doctors, insurers, and employers. he's not affixing blame on one party over another, but on the fact that there is "no landscape of choices, or choosers."

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We get it . . . you dont like Obama . . . now move along and let the adults talk ., . . :wacko:

Please....you are a joke. Adults? Nearly every posts you make is an attempt to belittle the previous poster. We also get that you love Obamer and his extreme leftist policies. You obviously do not care that he has more more gaffes and spouted more lies in 11 months than the previous admin did in 8 years. Of course you are ok with that.

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Really? Your taxes go up by double digits every year?

 

the tax part comes later, right now it's just the borrowing going up by double-digits every year.

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Please....you are a joke. Adults? Nearly every posts you make is an attempt to belittle the previous poster. We also get that you love Obamer and his extreme leftist policies. You obviously do not care that he has more more gaffes and spouted more lies in 11 months than the previous admin did in 8 years. Of course you are ok with that.

 

Your ignorance is truly staggering . . . . If you want to contribute to the conversation at hand, feel free to do so. But if you want to hijack because you just hate everything that isnt very right-wing, that really isnt very productive . . . .

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Soooo according to Mr. Bush, the problem seems to be govt . . . and NOT insurance companies huh? So when an insurance company determines what doctor I can go to and what each procedure costs . . somehow that is the gubments fault? :wacko:

 

 

:D the quote you're responding to doesn't even mention the government. :D

 

he blames "America's third-party laundromat for health dollars", then mentions doctors, insurers, and employers. he's not affixing blame on one party over another, but on the fact that there is "no landscape of choices, or choosers."

 

The problem is "easily fixed by releasing some power into the arms of consumers and cutting employers and certainly the government out of it," he says, turning to ObamaCare.

 

Feel better Az? A direct quote that calls out the gubment, but fails to mention insurance companies?

 

IMO insurance companies are a huge part of the problem. Insurance isnt and should never be a end-all be all for health care. As long as insurance IS a player in the health care network, then I think that insurance should also be transparent as possible to help people avoid medical bankruptcy in the US? :D If reform is actually going to mean reform, then it should touch on all areas of that industry. The current bill does not do that, and nothing offered by either party actually combats some of teh very real problems.

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Feel better Az? A direct quote that calls out the gubment, but fails to mention insurance companies?

 

so you find one sentence where he talks about the government but not insurance companies (ignoring the quite you replied to, which mentions insurance companies but not the government), and that means he is missing the whole point because he's not blaming insurance companies? you are flailing here.

 

IMO insurance companies are a huge part of the problem. Insurance isnt and should never be a end-all be all for health care. As long as insurance IS a player in the health care network, then I think that insurance should also be transparent as possible to help people avoid medical bankruptcy in the US? shrug.gif If reform is actually going to mean reform, then it should touch on all areas of that industry. The current bill does not do that, and nothing offered by either party actually combats some of teh very real problems.

 

I can't really even decipher what you're trying to say here, but look...health care is an industry where the government is already the payer/insurer on a majority of expenditures. PLUS it is the government which shapes all of the moronic regulation everyone else has to comply with, and perhaps most importantly of all, it is the government which created the grotesquely inefficient tax incentives which led insurance to be tied so closely to employment and all the costs to be isolated from, as the interviewee puts it, "a landscape of choices, or choosers". it just seems bizarre to point to THAT, of all industries, as one where private industry has failed.

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Feel better Az? A direct quote that calls out the gubment, but fails to mention insurance companies?

 

IMO insurance companies are a huge part of the problem. Insurance isnt and should never be a end-all be all for health care. As long as insurance IS a player in the health care network, then I think that insurance should also be transparent as possible to help people avoid medical bankruptcy in the US? :wacko: If reform is actually going to mean reform, then it should touch on all areas of that industry. The current bill does not do that, and nothing offered by either party actually combats some of teh very real problems.

 

 

There is no free market relative to health insurance - so the success or failure of free market principles cannot be determined. The government regulates the business and mandates that health insurance cannot be purchased across state lines.

 

Since you claim to know about what the "current" bill says - unlike anyone else on the planet, how about you share with the rest of us?

 

Here are some thoughts::

 

Employer paid health care appeared as a result of Nixon's wage and price controls, which was anathema to capitalism. Perks, beyond salary were a way to circumvent that. Until then, everyone bought their own health insurance. Let's go back to that - that would create competition. Imagine all the health insurance companies having to compete with every individual, rather than catering to giant corporations.

 

We absolutely need medical malpractice tort reform. A dear friend was recently a juror on a case where they awarded millions to a 38 year old artificially inseminated drug addict who never should have been impregnated becasue the women on the jury felt sorry for her children, even thought all the experts - from both sides - testified that the doctor on trial did nothing wrong. The jury completely ignored the judge's directions.

 

What do we really need health insurance for? My answer would be for something catastrophic or a sudden emergency. Do we really need it for a routine visit when we have a cold? We (speaking to those who have health insurance through an employer) are spoiled by the regular copays. We have the mentality that it only costs ten dollars to get our sinuses checked, without ever seeing the actual accounting of our doctor's visit. We never see what the doctor bills the insurance company and what is paid - and if we do, we do not pay attention. We think it costs ten dollars, and we are deluded.

 

IMHO, everything would be better off if basic accounting was taught in high school, as a requirement for graduation. After that, all paychecks should be for the gross amount. Citizens should than have to actually write checks - or somehow else pay - all the withholding taxes. It would make people realize what they actually contribute and perhaps more readily question how the money is spent.

 

We are missing that connection in the health care debate.

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There was a sizeable series of articles at boston.com in the last year about price fixing with regards to healthcare. There's a large medical group in Massachusetts (Partners) comprised of several of the really big Boston hospitals, their associated physician groups, etc. They extend throughout the eastern part of the state. While they haven't quite reached the monopoly status, they are trending in that direction.

 

Apparently, Partners managed to negotiate special contracts with several of the larger insurers in the state that have resulted in them getting payments up to 300% more for procedures and services than non-Partners members. Until this expose was published, however, individuals insured by these companies had no idea that the xray that might cost you $500 at your local hospital could cost you $1500 if you go to a Partners hospital. Insurance companies of course, simply pass these cost increases along to employers and individuals in higher premiums.

 

I'll post links to the articles when I get an opportunity to search for it. It was fascinating and disgusting all at once. The insurance company execs recently had to come before the state insurance commissioner to answer for some of this and refused to discuss the terms of their contracts but admitted that cost control for the insured was not their primary concern.

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There was a sizeable series of articles at boston.com in the last year about price fixing with regards to healthcare. There's a large medical group in Massachusetts (Partners) comprised of several of the really big Boston hospitals, their associated physician groups, etc. They extend throughout the eastern part of the state. While they haven't quite reached the monopoly status, they are trending in that direction.

 

Apparently, Partners managed to negotiate special contracts with several of the larger insurers in the state that have resulted in them getting payments up to 300% more for procedures and services than non-Partners members. Until this expose was published, however, individuals insured by these companies had no idea that the xray that might cost you $500 at your local hospital could cost you $1500 if you go to a Partners hospital. Insurance companies of course, simply pass these cost increases along to employers and individuals in higher premiums.

 

I'll post links to the articles when I get an opportunity to search for it. It was fascinating and disgusting all at once. The insurance company execs recently had to come before the state insurance commissioner to answer for some of this and refused to discuss the terms of their contracts but admitted that cost control for the insured was not their primary concern.

 

Dont let Az or lady hawke see those links. :wacko:

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so you find one sentence where he talks about the government but not insurance companies (ignoring the quite you replied to, which mentions insurance companies but not the government), and that means he is missing the whole point because he's not blaming insurance companies? you are flailing here. Not at all Az, I just find it amusing that while he blames the bubmnet (and correctly so in some cases) insurance isnt a culprit at all. Imagine that . . Is it a gubment regulation that casues insurance companies to send me a letter to confirm my 4 year old daughter ISNT married before they will cover the cost of a procedure? And that happens . . every single time she has a doctor's visist? And if the "marriage questionaire" isnt filled out within 3 weeks, then the claim is denied? Nope, I am suuuure that is all the big ol nasty gubmnet in action . .My point has always been if health care is to be reformed, then it needs to touch on all players in the industry. Not just blaming the gubmnet, or the hawks that use tort reform as the only problem. EVERYTHING needs to be reformed. I am sorry if you think that everything is awesome in health care.

 

 

 

I can't really even decipher what you're trying to say here, but look...health care is an industry where the government is already the payer/insurer on a majority of expenditures. PLUS it is the government which shapes all of the moronic regulation everyone else has to comply with, and perhaps most importantly of all, it is the government which created the grotesquely inefficient tax incentives which led insurance to be tied so closely to employment and all the costs to be isolated from, as the interviewee puts it, "a landscape of choices, or choosers". it just seems bizarre to point to THAT, of all industries, as one where private industry has failed. I am pretty sure we have debated ad nauseum how the percentage of costs are disproportionately in the last several months of life, ususally when most people are on Medicare. No argument there. i agree that divorcing health care from employers and making it portable would be better, and it would be GREAT if they were allowed to cross state lines. (BTW, isnt it the STATE that allows what insurance can be sold within its borders? Not the fed gubmnet?) The point that I continue to make is that instead of cherry picking the areas that your particular party happens to not like, the whole system needs to be reviewed and made more efficient. I laugh at any quoted article that has a specific bend towards one party . . . cause neither of them actually attack the entire problem

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health care is an industry where the government is already the payer/insurer on a majority of expenditures. PLUS it is the government which shapes all of the moronic regulation everyone else has to comply with, and perhaps most importantly of all, it is the government which created the grotesquely inefficient tax incentives which led insurance to be tied so closely to employment and all the costs to be isolated from, as the interviewee puts it, "a landscape of choices, or choosers". it just seems bizarre to point to THAT, of all industries, as one where private industry has failed.

 

Hugh Bingo! This little tidbit goes entirely unreported throughout the debate. Many talk as though the system we have today is the result of big business run amuck - FAIL!

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I'll post links to the articles when I get an opportunity to search for it. It was fascinating and disgusting all at once. The insurance company execs recently had to come before the state insurance commissioner to answer for some of this and refused to discuss the terms of their contracts but admitted that cost control for the insured was not their primary concern.

 

I'm shocked to learn that their are greedy CEOs out there.

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Really? Your taxes go up by double digits every year?

 

They will. They will. Once we actually start paying for stuff instead of yer Pelosi-led Congress simply charging everything on their tab. Their extremely ugly, hate their own children and grand-children tab.

 

Pelosi should be brought up on charges of being a traitor to the United States for her inept leadership.

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Hugh Bingo! This little tidbit goes entirely unreported throughout the debate. Many talk as though the system we have today is the result of big business run amuck - FAIL!

Rubbish.

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Hugh Bingo! This little tidbit goes entirely unreported throughout the debate. Many talk as though the system we have today is the result of big business run amuck - FAIL!

 

Really isnt unreported at all. Most expenditures happen in the last several months of life. Quite often that can be older people that are on medicare/medicaid when they are very old. Who is arguing this again?

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There was a sizeable series of articles at boston.com in the last year about price fixing with regards to healthcare. There's a large medical group in Massachusetts (Partners) comprised of several of the really big Boston hospitals, their associated physician groups, etc. They extend throughout the eastern part of the state. While they haven't quite reached the monopoly status, they are trending in that direction.

 

Apparently, Partners managed to negotiate special contracts with several of the larger insurers in the state that have resulted in them getting payments up to 300% more for procedures and services than non-Partners members. Until this expose was published, however, individuals insured by these companies had no idea that the xray that might cost you $500 at your local hospital could cost you $1500 if you go to a Partners hospital. Insurance companies of course, simply pass these cost increases along to employers and individuals in higher premiums.

 

I'll post links to the articles when I get an opportunity to search for it. It was fascinating and disgusting all at once. The insurance company execs recently had to come before the state insurance commissioner to answer for some of this and refused to discuss the terms of their contracts but admitted that cost control for the insured was not their primary concern.

 

I wonder if it's a coincidence that this massive fraud and inefficiency is in one of the states with the most health care socialization and regulation :wacko:

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Rubbish.

 

 

No kidding, let's simply forget about insurance moving to industry during WW2.

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No kidding, let's simply forget about insurance moving to industry during WW2.

 

And this is because of government interference in the free marketplace... :wacko:

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And this is because of government interference in the free marketplace... :wacko:

 

 

While we were fighting for our nation's survival. And we did. Let's fix this accident but stop laying blame at situations we personally have never experienced. We did what we had to do to win.

 

Or would you rather speaking the deutch?

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While we were fighting for our nation's survival. And we did. Let's fix this accident but stop laying blame at situations we personally have never experienced. We did what we had to do to win.

 

Or would you rather speaking the deutch?

More likely Japanese, or at least that was Hitler's demented musings. At one point early in the war he saw the world divided into three - the German, Japanese and British Empires.

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While we were fighting for our nation's survival. And we did. Let's fix this accident but stop laying blame at situations we personally have never experienced. We did what we had to do to win.

 

Or would you rather speaking the deutch?

 

We were fighting in Europe for Europe's survival. Hitler wasn't gonna cross the Atlantic when he couldn't broach the English Channel.

 

It just furthers my point - fedgov almost never gives won power back, unless keeping it is untenable and costs votes. But they aren't talking about fixing anything now, are they? They're talking about taking it over.

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