bracket tourney dispute...please read/help

[ggj3425]

This is rather entertaining and you can also help me out as well. So if you have some time please read and give your opinion/vote.

 

Ok, my friend decided to make an NCAA tournament bracket pool this year with a somewhat unique scoring system, not the traditional scoring used by yahoo default or other leagues. In this pool, 6 points are given for a first round correctly predicted winner, 7 for a second, 8 for a third, 9 for a fourth, 10 for a fifth, and 10 for a sixth (the championship game). Also in this league, bonus points are given for correctly predicting an upset, decided by the differential between the two team's seeds (EX: a 13 seed upsets a 4 seed. If someone picked that to happen they would receive the original points for the win and 9 bonus points to predicting the upset.) Now for those unaware, under traditional scoring goes 1 point for a first round win, 2 for a second, 4 for a third, 8 for a fourth, 16 for a fifth, 32 for a sixth. Now, the commissioner and another person in the league have been disputing which scoring system is better. I am trying to find out from a nonbiased audience who avid sports fans agree with. Here is the arguments posted on the wall of the league:

 

This was first stated by the person who is against the scoring of the pool and thinks the traditional scoring is superior:

I jus wasted 20 bucks b.c. i didnt know how dumb gary really could be. I should have checked the scoring before i did this. How is a first round worth 92 pts while a championship game is 10 pts? Only retards would set their scoring system like this. Good thing Gary won this tourney in the first and 2nd round. Well, since my brackets are trash I'll drink away my sorrows tonite

 

Then the commissioner responded:

 

1. Each first round game is worth 6 points, while the ship is worth 10 and more important than any first round game.

 

2. I purposely wrote in the commissioners note AND the description when i gave out the invites to "read the rules!" and there was unique scoring

 

3. This scoring system is more fair and exciting. In the traditional (1,2,4,8,16,32 which Blaze seems to favor??) scoring the first 3 rounds and the BEST 96 games!! are absolutely irrelevent, which is retarded.

 

4. Under traditional rules, all who would have picked kansas to win it all would be completely out of it right now and March madness would be over for them in 2 days.

 

5. Also, this scoring system gives people the chance to pick and be rewarded for having the balls to predict an upset or cinderella team. Under traditional scoring, it is pointless to even pick an upset. Obviously, the higher seeds ARE the better teams. Under traditional rules, a person would be dumb to not pick the higher seeds in every single game because they are the more likely team to win. With my scoring, people have the freedom and leeway to predict some cinderellas and not be out of it if they pick a few wrong and a few right.

 

5. Another example, let's say I pick an almost perfect bracket, except I choose Duke to win it all and they lose in OT BARELY to syracuse. Blaise on the other hand picked a terrible bracket, won like 15 games in the first round and 6 in the second. However he happened to pick Syracuse to win it all. In his scoring he would win because Syracuse won 1!! game BARELy, while I predicted 10 to 15 more games correct than he did. How is that even close to fair???

 

6. If traditional scoring (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32) is used, why would anyone watch any of the first 3 rounds. Actually why watch any except the final four and championshiop, might as well call it april (insert).

 

Also, i dont know why you keep comparing rounds!! We are betting on games, not rounds!!

 

Also, I just wanted to emphasize this way is by far the most exciting way to score. How many have been on the edge of their seats of almost every game that they wouldn't have cared 2 poopys about if regular scoring was applied?

 

Finally, yes Blaise you are absolutely right that I did win this in the first 2 rounds by predicting 64 games (not 1, ala traditional scoring) along with many of the upsets (which everyone else had the opportunity to pick) correcter than any of you guys.

 

p.s. it's far from over, i have msu in the ship

 

 

This was the response from the traditional-scoring liking person:

Gary, so basically all " the games I've been on for the edge of my seat" for the first two rounds" THAT WAS SO MUCH FUN OMFG I LOVE IT YES YES YESY! Now since ur dumbass scoring system goes nobody gives a poopy about the last three rounds. And last I checked when your in the tournament you dont get crowned being a national championship for making it to the Sweet 16. You get crowned in the 6th game not the 2nd. Thats why Championship games have such a high value... because not alot of people have it correct. Thats why it takes guts/research/skill (which you told me via text message) to predict a national championship. And basically YOU CAN NOT HAVE A SINGLE TEAM IN THE FINAL FOUR and still win your bracket tourney. how is that fair? and since ppl picked kansas to win and their eliminated from their tourney. to bad its their fault. I feel no sympathy. You should not have a chance to win if your championship team is done in the 2nd round

 

"5. Another example, let's say I pick an almost perfect bracket, except I choose Duke to win it all and they lose in OT BARELY to syracuse. Blaise on the other hand picked a terrible bracket, won like 15 games in the first round and 6 in the second. However he happened to pick Syracuse to win it all. In his scoring he would win because Syracuse won 1!! game BARELy, while I predicted 10 to 15 more games correct than he did. How is that even close to fair???"

 

Gary you when I wore my first dressing retard in this scoring system you still would have won if you beat me by 10 or 15 games thats why this scoring system works!!!!!!!! do the math. Thats why this scoring system works. You LOST this arguement face it. ESPN, yahoo, cbs all do the same scoring so it obviously the fairest way. Your unorthodox way is dumb and favors ppl with balls to pick upsets. IT TAKES BALLS TO PICK THE CORRECT NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!

 

 

Commissiners response:

No one gives a poopy about the last 3 rounds? Why is that? I don't think anyone is eliminated yet actually. Everyone is at least in the running for third or fourth. Also, how come we don't do 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 in our draft then?? You should very well be able to win without picking the national champion it should just be harder, which it is. Also, you're right no one gets crowned national champion by making it to the sweet 16, but Blaise we are playing a pool, we are not the athletes playing the games you can't compare those 2 at all. "That's why national championship games have such a high value... because not a lot of people get it correct" there is no point to that statement. If that is your logic, it is also very tough to predict which upsets will happen, which is why they are given a bonus. Also, it is not possible to win if you have zero final four teams and someone else has all four or 3. If that were possible they would have to have a perfect bracket through the elite 8 and if that happened then yes they do deserve to win that is an incredible feat. Have you seen yahoo's default fantasy scoring lately, its absolutely terrible, which is why no one uses it. You have yet to provide one logical statement. Any non-biased intelligent sports fan would agree with me that this is a far superior scoring system in any category (excitement, fair, etc.).

And answer me this question. Let's say someone picked Kansas to win it all. Under traditional scoring they would be mathematically out of it after the second round therefore have no reason to watch the rest of the tournament. ALSO, they had no reason to watch the first 2 rounds because those games are worth 1 or 2 points each and in the end mean almost nothing. As a result, under "traditional" and according to you more "fair" scoring, the 75% of ppl who picked kansas to win it all had ZERO games of meaning to watch with meaning.

 

A final note, you seem to be emphasizing that it is harder to predict the champion so it should be more points. Well, if you predict the correct champion they will rack you up approx. 50 points throughout the tournament!!! That is plenty!!

 

Ok if you've read this thank you very much, I am simply trying to prove that one scoring system is better than the other for one of the parties and want help from anyone who thinks they have a fair opinion.

 

Please vote "traditional" or "commish" for whos scoring and argument you agree with more.

Edited March 22, 2010 by ggj3425

[buddahj]

Wow...I'll never get those 5 minutes back. I don't mind bonuses, but these are dumb. So I guess..."traditional".

[detlef]

FWIW (which, frankly is absolutely nothing because the rules were set forth before anyone paid their money), I'm not a fan of doubling points each round. I do think later rounds should be worth more but, in traditional scoring, that means picking the final winner is worth the entire first round. Seems too back-end heavy to me. Especially given that even getting 4-6 more right than the field in the first round is really pretty huge. Two guys could have the same final 4, final two, but one guy has the winner right and the other doesn't. That could be enough to get him the win despite picking over a dozen less games right over the course of the tourney as the other guy. The guy who set the rules is right, it does make the first rounds irrelevant.

 

IMO, this guy's scoring goes too far the other way, but again, it was his tourney and he put it in the rules. So, some dumbass is out $20 because he didn't bother to read. Sucks for him.

[The Wolf]

Wow...I'll never get those 5 minutes back. I don't mind bonuses, but these are dumb. So I guess..."traditional".

 

 

So, some dumbass is out $20 because he didn't bother to read. Sucks for him.

 

Agreed.

 

And agreed.

 

READ THE RULES!!!

[MikesVikes]

First 3 rounds in traditional scoring

25 wins in Round 1

6 wins in Round 2

3 wins in Round 3 gets you 49 points

 

comparison

20 wins in Round 1

9 wins in Round 2

4 wins in Round 3 gets you 54 points

 

Funky new Idea scoring

25 wins in Round 1

6 wins in Round 2

3 wins in Round 3 gets you 216 points

 

comparisojn

20 wins in Round 1

9 wins in Round 2

4 wins in Round 3 gets you 215 points

 

I just think that a great first round shouldn't seal the deal. In your example of Kansas losing out early typically hurts each bracket, it doesn't just effect one. And the dudes that had Kansas losing out early typically don't just pick one major upset and win a tournament with that major upset. They probably have also picked more upsets that may or may not have worked out as well.

 

I think the guy with more wins in the later rounds should be ahead of the guy that had a great first round.

[Bonedaddies]

1) You have to read the rules before you pick

2) New scoring system "could" reward a player for picking a bunch of lower seeds, does not mean they picked the upsets, they just picked a bunch of them and made out due to the scoring.

3) I do not like either scoring system.

 

I like to reward those that pick upsets, in my pool here is what we use:

 

Round

1 2pts = 64 total

2 5pts = 80 total this round should be worth more

3 5pts X the seed, this truely rewards players for picking upsets, taking a 3 over a 2 = 15 vs. 10 (more reward for the lower seed, but not a crazy amount, now if you have St. Mary's (10) over Baylor = 50, big points, but you risk losing 15 with Baylor.

4 15pts add the seed = 60pts plus value of seeds

5 20pts add the seed = 40pts plus value of the seeds

6 20pts X the seed, picking a 2 = 40pts, 3 = 60pts

 

Picking the champ is worth more per game, but does not more for the round. IMO the winner should have close to the most "correct" picks overall and may not need to pick the winner to finish 1st. Most year's our top bracket DOES have the winner and is within 1/2 games of having the most correct selections.

[MikesVikes]

The rules are silly but if they were in place before everyone signed up, I don't see any dispute.