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Brentastic
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And living in fantasyland is the priciple product of the progressives. Or maybe they're intentionally bankrupting this country. :wacko:

 

Conservatives live there too. They're all like those kids in Thunderdome looking for Tomorrow-morrow Land. Health Care at least has the advantage of being a real problem vs. phantom WMDs buried in the sand.

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I'm not up on the details -- Will there be insurance police that come to your house to arrest you if you don't pay the fine?

 

 

can u say IRS

 

I kid u not.

 

This bill will mandate that millions of people who

are currently uninsured must purchase insurance

from private companies, or the IRS will collect up

to 2% of their annual income in penalties. Some

will be assisted with government subsidies.

 

 

 

Remember the guy who flew a small plane into the IRS building, because he was overly fustrated and felt abused by the IRS? What's going to happen when the IRS gets involved with enforcing America's healthcare? Its anguishing enough that once a year so many Americans feel abused by, feel threatened by, or fear the IRS. Now thanks to new democratic healthcare legislation Americans will be facing their fears " Internal Revenue Service" alot more often. Every month Americans will have to answer to the IRS proving that they have healthcare. Every month if Americans are late on their healthcare payments, they are subject to penalties. Every month Americans will be subject to fines. Every month Americans will be subject to audits of their income by the IRS. This democratic healthcare legislation has brought Americans far more government intervention than Americans ever intended. I'll make this guarantee to all democratic legislators. The opportunity for the Internal Revenue Service "Gestapo" to harass many Americans over their healthcare, is an opportunity that come November elections many Americans will reject. That I guarantee!

Edited by moneymakers
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:wacko:

 

While there may be things in there I don't necessarily like, and the methods to get to this end were a little slimy (though no more slimy than other measures enacted in the past).....there are 32 million people that can breathe a sigh of relief....which is a good thing.

Dear Leader appreciates your acquiescence. Take an extra qauze pad.

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Interesting...

 

Former Bushie David Frum says today was the Waterloo...for Republicans.

 

I dunno. realistically, what could the republicans have done here? they got every republican and a lot of democrats to vote against the bill. if you talk about the "message war", well the country is overwhelmingly opposed to the legislation, so they've been winning there, but that hasn't mattered, except in that they were able to keep out the public option and many of the other more far-left ideas. confronted with an oppositon party with large majorities in both houses, an ahab-like willingness to go down with the ship, and an administration cracking the whip, doling out threats and promises like there's no tomorrow to push this across the goal line...I don't really know what they can be expected to have accomplished here.

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well the country is overwhelmingly opposed to the legislation,

 

That's an exaggeration.

 

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP...ational_317.pdf

 

Do you support or oppose President Obama’s

health care plan, or do you not have an

opinion? If you support it, press 1. If you

oppose it, press 2. If you don’t have an opinion,

press 3.

Support ........................................................... 45%

Oppose ........................................................... 49%

No Opinion...................................................... 6%

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I dunno. realistically, what could the republicans have done here? they got every republican and a lot of democrats to vote against the bill. if you talk about the "message war", well the country is overwhelmingly opposed to the legislation, so they've been winning there, but that hasn't mattered, except in that they were able to keep out the public option and many of the other more far-left ideas. confronted with an oppositon party with large majorities in both houses, an ahab-like willingness to go down with the ship, and an administration cracking the whip, doling out threats and promises like there's no tomorrow to push this across the goal line...I don't really know what they can be expected to have accomplished here.

Perhaps some participation from the get-go might have helped? Or - and here's a radical thought - addressed the entire friggin' issue when they were in power instead of happily sucking off the business tit. I've heard so many Republicans say the system is broken and they're right, it is. So.....what were you doing about it?

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Having private banks administer the loans was a PURE giveaway to the banks. I'm glad they got rid of this BS.
You're wrong. The government pays the subsidized interest on the subsidized loans while the students are in school only (regardless of who the lender is - even if it's the goverment themselves). BUT what's not being discussed is the money lenders pay back to the goverment called the special allowance payment - quarterly this amount is paid by lenders to the government. So in the end, the government receives money from the lenders but none of that is being reported. All this gets masked because the government wants to be the entire student loan industry - it's a big market to control and they pulled it off with little to no resistance.

Trust me, the banks do NOT lose money in this arrangement. The are getting a guaranteed interest rate payment when they make the loans. It is a giveaway to the banking system. (If I give you $10 and then say that you have to give me back $5, I am still giving you $5 overall.)

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Trust me, the banks do NOT lose money in this arrangement. The are getting a guaranteed interest rate payment when they make the loans. It is a giveaway to the banking system. (If I give you $10 and then say that you have to give me back $5, I am still giving you $5 overall.)

Wiegie,

 

Is this some sort of "throttle" on what the private banks can charge to students (which the fed gov guarantees)? The fees and rates have been lowering the amounts that students can get, by the Gov stepping in, this frees up monies that otherwise were tied up in the banks. Is this right, or am I off base?

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Trust me, the banks do NOT lose money in this arrangement. The are getting a guaranteed interest rate payment when they make the loans. It is a giveaway to the banking system. (If I give you $10 and then say that you have to give me back $5, I am still giving you $5 overall.)

 

right, and now the government is just taking over the industry so they can get all the money. which explains why it was thrown into their "health bill" in the first place, a little more black ink to offset the massive new entitlement they are enacting.

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right, and now the government is just taking over the industry so they can get all the money. which explains why it was thrown into their "health bill" in the first place, a little more black ink to offset the massive new entitlement they are enacting.

Maybe the banks have had enough hand outs lately? :wacko:

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The Gallup pole from your link shows 45% favor while 48% oppose. The Fox News (forgive me if I mistrust this) says 35% favor while 55% oppose (which I think skews your average a bit). Personally, I trust the Gallup pole to be closer to the reality.

 

But I agree with one of the previous posters about I really hope this is more a "start" to fixing the broken system instead of people giving high fives and going home. Medically, people are people. Some how we pay more than any other country and statistically we don't live any longer. The current system cannot continue long term.

Edited by Square
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This can't be right. Are you saying the banks are actually happily losing money? :wacko:

The banks aren't losing money, they are still making money from the interest collected on the loan. What I'm saying is that the government is not giving away money to the lenders as they are claiming (they do subsidize money but then collect more money back from the lenders).

 

For those of you who remember the stafford loans from school - the government pays the interest on the subsidized loan (regardless of lender) for the student, while the student is in school - this is a subsidy from the government to the student, not to the lenders. However, the govt also requires payment from private lenders by maintaining a cap on the amount of premium lenders can collect. It's important to understand that the rates of these stafford loans are consistent no matter who provides the loan (5.6% fixed for undergrad right now). So even though the govt collects the full 5.6% on any loans they originate and fund, private lenders must pay a large portion of that 5.6% back to the govt, PLUS, lenders are also paying fees on these loans.

 

There is a reason that the FFELP program was used by 70+% of schools - because it is a better program for the student and the schools. Private lenders offered reduced rates while the govt does not. Private lenders are more efficient and provide higher quality service than the gove (imagine that). Basically, just like all things in life (particularly politics), there is a lot more info than what is being shed. What this bill has done, is remove all options for the customer (college students and parents) and force them to use the government to fund their college tuition. Again, there is no advantage to the student in this and conversely, there was no disadvantage to students using private lenders - only advantages.

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I should also add that 'banks' aren't the only organizations involved in student loans, and in fact, they are not even the majority. I work for a private servicing company (we are not a bank) that originates and services student loans. We are very small but very good at what we do (we're kinda lilke a craft brewery compared to budweiser etc...). Anyways, this bill eliminates any competition from this industry and now the DOE is the sole provider of Stafford loans. They claim this will help the student but it doesn't - it only limits their choices.

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This will never be repealed. All of the pending legal challenges, and all of the talk about repealing the law or impeaching Obama, Pelosi, Reid, etc. is all just a bunch of hot air... those efforts will go nowhere. This will permanently alter the relationship between our government and us citizens... and not in a good way. But there's no going back now.

 

And it doesn't really do any good for people to plan to move somewhere else. This form of "democratic" Socialism will eventually find you. Don't place your hope in this world or it's corrupt politicians. You'll always end up disappointed. Find your hope somewhere else. Mine is found in the true Kingdom. Remember we're living in enemy occupied territory during our time here on Earth.

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That's not "overwhelming" by any stretch of the imagination.

Well, it's a pretty distinct spread and if you look at the link it was consistent across the board. At best, the public was only marginally opposed.

 

My issue, frankly, is with how reliable it is to poll the public on something that has been so damned confusing, ever shifting, and riddled with rhetoric as this whole mess has been. Who among those polled has actually looked into the issue at hand, understands the details and is making an informed opinion? My guess is, compared to how many are either starry-eyed Obama fans or hateful Rush backers who'll just say "no" to anything he puts up, it's quite low.

 

And I'm not saying this in defense of the bill because, honestly, I'd be lying if I could say that this is certainly a good thing. I still have no idea at all (not for lack of effort, mind you). I'm just saying that my faith in what my fellow American is using to base his/her opinion on in these matters is at an all time low.

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I should also add that 'banks' aren't the only organizations involved in student loans, and in fact, they are not even the majority. I work for a private servicing company (we are not a bank) that originates and services student loans. We are very small but very good at what we do (we're kinda lilke a craft brewery compared to budweiser etc...). Anyways, this bill eliminates any competition from this industry and now the DOE is the sole provider of Stafford loans. They claim this will help the student but it doesn't - it only limits their choices.

 

just another way in this bill for the government to take money from the young and healthy (and relatively poor) to pay for the old and sick (and relatively well-off).

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Except the law is that the tag can't be removed "EXCEPT BY THE CONSUMER", meaning the store can't remove it but a person at home can.

but what happens if you later want to sell it at a yard sale and you removed the tag :wacko:

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That's not "overwhelming" by any stretch of the imagination.

and how many of the 'against' votes were captured by talk of death panels and people who call anybody left of the commrad?

Edited by Duchess Jack
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The banks aren't losing money, they are still making money from the interest collected on the loan. What I'm saying is that the government is not giving away money to the lenders as they are claiming (they do subsidize money but then collect more money back from the lenders).

 

For those of you who remember the stafford loans from school - the government pays the interest on the subsidized loan (regardless of lender) for the student, while the student is in school - this is a subsidy from the government to the student, not to the lenders. However, the govt also requires payment from private lenders by maintaining a cap on the amount of premium lenders can collect. It's important to understand that the rates of these stafford loans are consistent no matter who provides the loan (5.6% fixed for undergrad right now). So even though the govt collects the full 5.6% on any loans they originate and fund, private lenders must pay a large portion of that 5.6% back to the govt, PLUS, lenders are also paying fees on these loans.

 

There is a reason that the FFELP program was used by 70+% of schools - because it is a better program for the student and the schools. Private lenders offered reduced rates while the govt does not. Private lenders are more efficient and provide higher quality service than the gove (imagine that). Basically, just like all things in life (particularly politics), there is a lot more info than what is being shed. What this bill has done, is remove all options for the customer (college students and parents) and force them to use the government to fund their college tuition. Again, there is no advantage to the student in this and conversely, there was no disadvantage to students using private lenders - only advantages.

 

How is there no advantage to students by getting subsidized interest from the government? How is their no advantage to the banks by receiving this interest, many times on loans that would not even have been taken out if not for the subsidization of the interest?

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