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BeeR

Massive Gulf Coast Oil Spill

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Pardon the conspiracy theory, but it's an awfully large coincidence that this happened almost immediately after more offshore drilling (or exploration for the purposes thereof) was authorized off pretty much the entire east coast.

 

I was thinking the same thing, especially when I heard Obama had sent a SWAT team out there. This is a terrible accident (assuming it is an accident) and those responsible should be held accountable, who ever they may be. I don't think that this should have a very big impact on future off shore drilling.

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I was thinking the same thing, especially when I heard Obama had sent a SWAT team out there. This is a terrible accident (assuming it is an accident) and those responsible should be held accountable, who ever they may be. I don't think that this should have a very big impact on future off shore drilling.

I think it will have a minimal effect short term on offshore drilling and that will be it.

 

As far as conspiracy theories? All the guys that died when it blew were long time offshore guys. No conspiracy. Just a freakin accident.

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I was thinking the same thing, especially when I heard Obama had sent a SWAT team out there. This is a terrible accident (assuming it is an accident) and those responsible should be held accountable, who ever they may be. I don't think that this should have a very big impact on future off shore drilling.

I think that this once again proves why we should be limiting our off shore drilling.

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In before the :wacko:

 

What a horrible situation. Do you think this affected the Fed decision to start building off shore wind farms?

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I think that this once again proves why we should be limiting our off shore drilling.

 

I might agree with you if other countries weren't putting platforms just outside of our territorial waters, and if things such as this happened often. This is first time I can remember this happening (I'm sure it has happened more but point being it is not common). How often do you see plane crashes on the news? Do you think to your self or express to others "I think this once again proves why we should be limiting our air travel"?

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I might agree with you if other countries weren't putting platforms just outside of our territorial waters, and if things such as this happened often. This is first time I can remember this happening (I'm sure it has happened more but point being it is not common). How often do you see plane crashes on the news? Do you think to your self or express to others "I think this once again proves why we should be limiting our air travel"?

This is an accurate analogy except that a reduction in offshore drilling would be far more intrusive on all of our lives.

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I might agree with you if other countries weren't putting platforms just outside of our territorial waters, and if things such as this happened often. This is first time I can remember this happening (I'm sure it has happened more but point being it is not common). How often do you see plane crashes on the news? Do you think to your self or express to others "I think this once again proves why we should be limiting our air travel"?

Apples and oranges perch.

 

The simple fact is that this tragedy affects not just the individuals that lost their lives but thousands of miles of coastline, countless numbers of plants and animals and let's not forget the economic damage done to the gulf fishing and tourism industries and the oil industry itself. So while it doesn't happen often the magnitude of the problems created as a side effect of the tragedy when it does happen makes it a far greater issue than just a plane crash.

 

Oh and before anyone goes and gets their knickers in a twist, I am NOT trivializing plane crashes.

 

Just so we are totally clear here, this is the exact thinking associated with nuclear plants as well. Eh, they have a good safety record nothing is going to happen. Yet when something does (aka, Chernobyl) we blithely go about our business thinking that it can't happen to us. It can and it will happen, the effects are devastating and all we care about is propping up the existing companies so that we can have cheap energy (and profits! let's not forget profits!) today. We'll deal with the accidents after they happen.

 

Part of the problem is the myopic view everyone currently has. It's not your fault, all humans tend to think in terms of their lifetime. What's happening is that we are now creating problems (we have been for some time now, we just are only starting to come around to understanding it) that span generations. We should be thinking in terms of solutions and mitigation strategies that also span generations. It is OK to start a project that you will not be alive to see the finish of.

 

In terms of energy that means that we as a culture and quite possibly as a species need to go back to point zero and rethink our entire energy strategy. Just saying, "Hey, let's do some more drilling this way we can get of the Middle Eastern tit!" is not enough. As a country we need to develop a plan to get us to what today is called alternative energy and commit to it. It seriously needs to be above political bickering because the issues we are facing today don't really care whether you are red or blue. The types of issues we are facing are Darwin type issues, are we smart enough not to kill ourselves. If it takes us 50 years to achieve these goals then it needs to be started today because each and every day that we sit around beotching at each other is one day less that we have to solve these issues.

 

The bottom line is that in this case, there isn't a bottom line. At least not for the existing oil companies. There is a line drawn in the sand that states exactly when the oil companies become irrelevant. The longer that the oil companies continue to try and squeeze profits out of oil, the better defined that line becomes. As a country we, and especially our government, should really start ignoring the oil companies for this very reason. We need to fix on a goal and get there, regardless of the damage it may cause to these existing companies. If they want to get on board and work to achieve these alternative energy platforms, then by all means, they should be allowed to do so. But their economic might should not be allowed in any way to chart the waters to that final destination. It is up to us to set this goal and in the end, to achieve it.

 

Here's the thing though. It will be painful to get to where we need to be. As a country we haven't spent nearly enough to even determine which, if any, of the current alternatives may be viable in the long run. It will take a lot of research and more importantly, money from our already over stressed economy in order to achieve this goal of energy independence. No one wants to be the bad guy to stand up and say, "It may be painful today, but no where near as painful as if we wait another 20 years. We must commit to this now and it will cost each and every American to do so."

 

This is not something that the free market will solve on it's own, especially if the oil companies have their way. There is no incentive yet for the type and size of the investments necessary to remove oil as out primary energy source. There is also a lot of pressure from other industries (coal and natural gas, I'm talking to you) that have the exact same issue as oil. That issue is that it is a finite resource that creates as many problems as it solves.

 

It will clearly take the government driving change in order to make that happen. I honestly don't like this any better than you. I wish that the free market could solve this problem, but business should not be driving government policy, the business should only act in its own best interests in order to maximize its profits. Now be careful on this point, it can be thorny and people can get lost in there. There is profit to be made in being part of the industry benefiting from the chosen direction. There is not profit in charting that direction and leading the people there.

 

For that reason, it must be the government that drives this solution. There is no incentive for any business to make the right choices and I've long since given up on the people in general making the right choices for themselves and perhaps just as importantly, for others on this planet. We can no longer afford to look at these types of things in a vacuum, as an issue that applies to just Americans or just those Americans that are alive today. Our choices right here and now will determine the future of this planet and every human that lives here from this time forward. We just have to have the strength to make the right choices for everyone involved.

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Kid, I don't think you are going to enjoy the ride for much longer if you get your way, as you won't be going anywhere. You talk as though people who want to continue to drill are against alternatives. You act like government is the only answer. In both cases you are wrong. Look at the wind farms in West Texas, hint it ain't the government putting them up. Look at T. Boone Pickens and his natural gas and wind plans, that isn't the government. We could be a lot less dependent on oil in general if we had more nuclear power. I just think saying oh, no we need more big government is misguided. I also would say that yes what is happening in the gulf right now is tragic, but something that will be over come. Some good changes will be made because of it., and we will over come.

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Kid, I don't think you are going to enjoy the ride for much longer if you get your way, as you won't be going anywhere. You talk as though people who want to continue to drill are against alternatives. You act like government is the only answer. In both cases you are wrong. Look at the wind farms in West Texas, hint it ain't the government putting them up. Look at T. Boone Pickens and his natural gas and wind plans, that isn't the government. We could be a lot less dependent on oil in general if we had more nuclear power. I just think saying oh, no we need more big government is misguided. I also would say that yes what is happening in the gulf right now is tragic, but something that will be over come. Some good changes will be made because of it., and we will over come.

Two things. 1) I applaud T Boone Pickens. He has more money than dirt and is actually trying to make it work for people. By far the exception and not the rule. 2) If you've read anything I've written here on the Huddle you should realize, I am not a fan of big government. This is one area though that I think has to be driven by government, not the private sector. It will take everyone being on the same page and working together to make it happen and I just don't see how one man's plan will garner enough support to drive everyone in the same direction.

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From the news this morning, it looks like this thing is going to be pumping oil into the Gulf for weeks, if not months to come. This could end up affecting beaches in the entire Gulf and beyond, maybe even the East Coast beaches of Florida in the following weeks. The damage that this is going to create is unimaginable. If there is an early season Tropical Storm or Hurricane in the Gulf that will add to the carnage. I don't think anyone can even grasp on how damaging this will be to some of the most pristine coastal areas in this country.

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From the news this morning, it looks like this thing is going to be pumping oil into the Gulf for weeks, if not months to come. This could end up affecting beaches in the entire Gulf and beyond, maybe even the East Coast beaches of Florida in the following weeks. The damage that this is going to create is unimaginable. If there is an early season Tropical Storm or Hurricane in the Gulf that will add to the carnage. I don't think anyone can even grasp on how damaging this will be to some of the most pristine coastal areas in this country.

Yeah this is an epic disaster to put it mildly. Locally they are running special 2 hour morning news broadcasts this weekend to keep everyone informed.

 

ETA;

Last night at 6pm the fishing an oyster zones in SE Louisiana were all closed.

Edited by tbimm

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"Any ass hole that has ever chanted 'Drill, Baby, Drill' should have to report to the Gulf coast today for clean up duty." - Bill Maher

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I have a lot of friends from all kinds of backgrounds and all kinds of beliefs. I love them all even if as we've grown older, our ideas are no longer even in the same dimension. One of my super right-wing buddies from high school posted this on his FB last night. He puts some of you Huddler right-wing nut jobs to shame. :wacko:

 

North Korean Sub Conspiricy

 

Scroll down a bit to get to the oil rig disaster but also take a look at some of the other "headlines". Wow.

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On the bright side, nobody had to force Exxon to do the right thing in Valdez. :wacko:

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I have a lot of friends from all kinds of backgrounds and all kinds of beliefs. I love them all even if as we've grown older, our ideas are no longer even in the same dimension. One of my super right-wing buddies from high school posted this on his FB last night. He puts some of you Huddler right-wing nut jobs to shame. :tup:

 

North Korean Sub Conspiricy

 

Scroll down a bit to get to the oil rig disaster but also take a look at some of the other "headlines". Wow.

 

Where is Lady Hawke? :wacko::tup:

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The only thing we should be drilling is a hole in Archie Bunker's head here just to see why he is such a twit.

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The only thing we should be drilling is a hole in Archie Bunker's head here just to see why he is such a twit.

From his grave?

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Archie Bunkeer

 

one in the same, except one was occasionally funny, the other just complains and is annyoing.

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Isn't the main problem here the depth of the drills site? Isn't that why they are having so much trouble capping it? Why is the drill sight so deep? Isn't there a federal law requiring platforms to be a certain distance off the coastline? I'm asking, not stating. I'd really like to hear form someone that actually knows. This is a very sad situation, but it would be somewhat ironic if it was federal regulations meant to help the environment that are contributing to the size and scope of this disaster.

Edited by Perchoutofwater

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Isn't the main problem here the depth of the drills site? Isn't that why they are having so much trouble capping it? Why is the drill sight so deep? Isn't there a federal law requiring platforms to be a certain distance off the coastline? I'm asking, not stating. I'd really like to hear form someone that actually knows. This is a very sad situation, but it would be somewhat ironic if it was federal regulations meant to help the environment that are contributing to the size and scope of this disaster.

The main problem is the valve that was supposed to shut off the flow in this type of emergency failed & for some reason all their attempts to activate it have not worked. Unfortunately with it being 5000 ft below they are limited in their options to try to get it closed. Yesterday I heard they are constructing some sort of concrete dome that they can drop over it which should be completed in about 5 days.

 

What really bothers me is that it doesn't really seem that they had a plan of action for this scenario. It seems that all their plans basically relied on this one valve. You would think with all the years of off-shore drilling they would have been better prepared for a major spill like this. But everything they have done so far has been trial & error.

Edited by rajncajn

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The main problem is the valve that was supposed to shut off the flow in this type of emergency failed & for some reason all their attempts to activate it have not worked. Unfortunately with it being 5000 ft below they are limited in their options to try to get it closed. Yesterday I heard they are constructing some sort of concrete dome that they can drop over it which should be completed in about 5 days.

 

What really bothers me is that it doesn't really seem that they had a plan of action for this scenario. It seems that all their plans basically relied on this one valve. You would think with all the years of off-shore drilling they would have been better prepared for a major spill like this. But everything they have done so far has been trial & error.

 

You are absolutely right, it does seem short sighted. I guess they just thought it could never happen. I read somewhere that there are 30,000 platforms out in the gulf. This is the first time I can recall their ever being a problem anywhere close to this magnitude.

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You are absolutely right, it does seem short sighted. I guess they just thought it could never happen. I read somewhere that there are 30,000 platforms out in the gulf. This is the first time I can recall their ever being a problem anywhere close to this magnitude.

All it takes is one time.

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One errant spark from a crack pipe could send New Orleans up in flames... Thanks, BP, you Adam's Apples!

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FWIW, I honestly don't think now is the time to play the blame game, neither on the local or national level. Right now all the focus and resources should be on getting this thing stopped & cleaned up as quickly as possible and it seems that BP is doing a pretty good job of organizing the effort and taking on full responsibility for the impact.

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Isn't the main problem here the depth of the drills site? Isn't that why they are having so much trouble capping it? Why is the drill sight so deep? Isn't there a federal law requiring platforms to be a certain distance off the coastline? I'm asking, not stating. I'd really like to hear form someone that actually knows. This is a very sad situation, but it would be somewhat ironic if it was federal regulations meant to help the environment that are contributing to the size and scope of this disaster.

 

Perch pretty sure you are completely wrong on the federal restriction being a cause of this. I saw on the news a map where this site was a LOT further away from land than most of the oil platforms. That is why this is such a problem, they dont have all that many deep, deep water drilling platforms like this. The depth was cited as a reason that the chemical they want to release that disperses the oil might not work.

 

It is that deep because that is where they found oil, not because of a federal restriction . . .

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