jetsfan Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The final gravity (FG) will give you an indication of sweetness more-so than the original gravity OG. Further, you can convert Plato to an OG pretty simply: {Plato/(258.6-([Plato/258.2]*227.1)}+1 = Specific gravity I am going to take a couple brews I know well: Left Hand 400 lb Monkey 14 Plato, 6.8 abv, 22 IBU* Stone IPA 15.4 Plato*, 6.7 abv, 77 IBU Lagunitas IPA 14.8 Plato*, 6.2 abv, 45.6 IBU Dogfish Head 60 minute 15.9 Plato*, 6.0 abv, 60 IBU Dogfish Head 90 minute 21.6 Plato, 9.0 abv, 90 IBU * gleaned from homebrewing clones If you estimate the ratio of IBU/Plato, a higher number should be maltier/sweeter in the end. This should work for similar styles. In the above, the LH IPA is definitely sweeter than it's counterparts. If you look at the beers above, the 90 minute is by far the sweetest of the bunch. Even though the ratio of IBU/Plato is very low, the reason being that the Plato scale is nonlinear and really does not work well for big beers. You are much better off with FG (if you can find it) for Imperial xxx and Barleywines. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The final gravity (FG) will give you an indication of sweetness more-so than the original gravity OG. Further, you can convert Plato to an OG pretty simply:{Plato/(258.6-([Plato/258.2]*227.1)}+1 = Specific gravity I am going to take a couple brews I know well: Left Hand 400 lb Monkey 14 Plato, 6.8 abv, 22 IBU* Stone IPA 15.4 Plato*, 6.7 abv, 77 IBU Lagunitas IPA 14.8 Plato*, 6.2 abv, 45.6 IBU Dogfish Head 60 minute 15.9 Plato*, 6.0 abv, 60 IBU Dogfish Head 90 minute 21.6 Plato, 9.0 abv, 90 IBU * gleaned from homebrewing clones If you estimate the ratio of IBU/Plato, a higher number should be maltier/sweeter in the end. This should work for similar styles. In the above, the LH IPA is definitely sweeter than it's counterparts. If you look at the beers above, the 90 minute is by far the sweetest of the bunch. Even though the ratio of IBU/Plato is very low, the reason being that the Plato scale is nonlinear and really does not work well for big beers. You are much better off with FG (if you can find it) for Imperial xxx and Barleywines. HTH Wow, very cool. It's not at all surprising, based on those numbers that I find the Stone IPA to be the most enamel-strippingly bitter of that batch and, honestly, have always found the 90 to be rather malt-dominated. I'm curious what the ratio on the Green Flash IPA is because that one tastes like pine sol. Interesting that the Plato scale is nonlinear, which just makes it that much more complicated. So, explain final gravity. Is that the same as residual sugar? If that's the case, wouldn't relying on that number as more reliable than plato give you a skewed picture? After all, from what I've read, it is the amount of total sugars, both fermented and non that make the beer "big". It certainly is the case for wine. A 15% Alsatian Dry Riesling is always going to seem more weighty than an 8% German with some residual. The sugar didn't really go anywhere. Certainly the calories didn't. I mean, technically, one could make a relatively sweet beer that still only caps out at 4% if you were careful, no? If you were to hop the crap out of that, would that seem less bitter than a 9% ale that was fermented drier? Or, reading back, maybe I didn't get your post correctly. Are you saying that FG is a better indication of sweetness (which seems to make perfect sense) or a better number to use relative to IBUs to determine perceptive bitterness (which is the part I'm having trouble understanding)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsfan Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Or, reading back, maybe I didn't get your post correctly. Are you saying that FG is a better indication of sweetness (which seems to make perfect sense) or a better number to use relative to IBUs to determine perceptive bitterness (which is the part I'm having trouble understanding)? FG (or final Plato) is usually a better indicator of sweetness regardless of IBU (in general). For instance, take the Great Divide Old Ruffian Barleywine. From Brew Your Own (since GD's website does not have specifics): OG=1.105 (plato~27), FG=1.026, abv=10.2, IBU=90 I chose the GD barleywine because it is a hoppy beast fresh. It has to be one of the harshest barleywines on the market imo. However, if you age it 6 months+, it balances out to a beautiful blend of malt and hops. Why? IBU goes down significantly with age and the residual sugars really start to shine. An FG of 1.026 is really, really sweet compared to most beers. But you would never know it if you bought a bottle of Great Divide Old Ruffian and opened it fresh. To answer your question det, when a brewery publishes a Plato number, it corresponds to the OG, not the FG or the delta (OG-FG) (which you can use to calc abv). As a rule of thumb, any beer style that is supposed to be malty and sweet (stout, barleywine, scotch ale) will do well with age. Do not age IPA's or DIPAs unless you want to experiment in how the hop-profile decays and the malts start becoming prominent. As an aside, I bought three bottles of Stone Old Guardian Belgo barleywine. One for now, one for 6 months (x-mas) and one for next year. I am currently drinking the fresh bottle. It is all hops and belgian yeast. The malt character is there, but very subdued. I expect this beer to age well as the hop character becomes more subdued and the malt becomes more pronounced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) First off I'm really going to go out on a limb here and guess that you brew up some mighty fine batches. Interesting that you bring up the perceptive sweetness and how that is masked by bitterness. Sort of the opposite of how this whole tangent got started. I would imagine it's the same issue with acid and sugar in wine. People are always asking for a "dry" wine, when what they really want is a high acid wine. Because they're nearly all technically dry. And there are some bracingly acidic German wines that actually have RS. Wines that you might confuse as being drier than they actually are. Meanwhile, there are some low acid whites that also may have some vanilla or other flavors often associated with things that are sweet that, actually have no RS at all. Yet the novice wine drinker may reject them and ask for something "drier". Even if such a thing doesn't actually exist. Sounds a bit like what you're talking about, only the hops are acting the part of the acid. And, for the record, essentially all the beers I have archived are either Belgian-style, stouts, barleywines, or other beers of that ilk. I've stashed just a handful of DIPAs for chights and grins. Like maybe a total of 12 or so out of the 30+ cases of various stuff we have downstairs in the archive. Edited May 12, 2011 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsfan Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I wish I had the capability to cellar a bunch of beers, and have access to specialty brews like you do. A buddy of mine and I are looking at opening a brewpub in Houston, but Texas ABC laws are archaic, written by Anheuser Busch, to say the least. I really enjoy brewing. It is amazing what you can do with the same recipe and change only the yeast from a British (malty) to American (dry) variety. I know very little about wines, and always read what you guys post for the rare occasion I drink wine (~1-2 times/year). I worked for a short period in the Toulouse area of France several years ago, and grew fond of the Beaujolais wines they served there. So, I've basically stuck with the sweeter (from what I've read) reds. I know nothing of how you get there, but imagine it is similar to brewing.... It is a great time in history to be a beer drinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsfan Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Epic Brewing Co is Salt Lake is making some exceptional beers the Oaked and Smoked Belgian dubbel was amazing. Picked up the imperial stout and barleywine to bring home and age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Last weekend fishing/drinkfest with college buddies. 5 liter mini keg of Bells Oberon 2 4 packs of Dogfish 90 minute IPA 12 pack sampler of Great Lakes 12 pack of Smithwicks 6 pack Two Women by New Glarus 12 pack Spotted Cow by New Glarus 6 pack Fat Squirrel by New Glarus 12 pack Moon Man by New Glarus 24 pack Blue Moon ( ) The day we really hit the bar after fishing, we end up trying to drink the bar out of cans of Pabst and Old Style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsfan Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 snagged 3 bottles of Deschutes Abyss last night 1 bottle each of Gnomegang, Ommegang Witte and Stone Old Belgo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Saw the Gnomegang last night but passed. Instead I bought a 22 oz bottle of Hoppin Frog's Old 21, Imperial Pale Ale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 haven't had a beer in years, had a beer brat yesterday and now i want a case of beer on ice out on the patio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsfan Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 haven't had a beer in years, had a beer brat yesterday and now i want a case of beer on ice out on the patio beer is good for you, now go get some ya mary picked up a twelve of Sierra Nevada Beer School to go with crawfish today. Man that is some good stuff and I would love to get in on that action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsfan Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) det, don't know if you can get Rahr and Sons (Dallas-Fort Worth), but their Ass Kisser Smoked Porter is excellent. A very close second to the Fade to Black which is no longer available. Edited May 29, 2011 by jetsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 det, don't know if you can get Rahr and Sons, but their Ass Kisser Smoked Porter is excellent. A very close second to the Fade to Black which is no longer available. Never heard of them. Where they from? So, been drinking my way through Oregon. Met lawdawg for a couple in Portland. A fine host indeed. Seriously dude, above and beyond. Met sugar magnolia for a few at Deschutes in bend. Another fine example of what a great batch of folks we have here. At any rate, sticking just to breweries and not specific beers (because I'm typing on my iPhone). Not counting rogue which I was already familiar with, my caves have been Deschutes, ninkasi, laurelwood, and bend brewing co. Also dug the brideport ipa. Really pretty. I thought the stuff from boneyard and 10 barrel was a bit clumsy though. Mind you, I didn't try many from either. Got a cool pack of goodies to stuff in my suitcase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil_gop_liars Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Never heard of them. Where they from? So, been drinking my way through Oregon. Met lawdawg for a couple in Portland. A fine host indeed. Seriously dude, above and beyond. Met sugar magnolia for a few at Deschutes in bend. Another fine example of what a great batch of folks we have here. At any rate, sticking just to breweries and not specific beers (because I'm typing on my iPhone). Not counting rogue which I was already familiar with, my caves have been Deschutes, ninkasi, laurelwood, and bend brewing co. Also dug the brideport ipa. Really pretty. I thought the stuff from boneyard and 10 barrel was a bit clumsy though. Mind you, I didn't try many from either. Got a cool pack of goodies to stuff in my suitcase You better try Hair Of The Dog before you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) You better try Hair Of The Dog before you go. Looks interesting. I'll try to find some ETA: found a bottle of Adam today. Added that to the collection I'm putting in my checked bag (8 bottles total, including one non-Oregonian because you've always gotta bring back a Pliny if you can). Dumb question, is there an Oregon beer store at the pdx airport? Edited May 30, 2011 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 beer is good for you, now go get some ya mary picked up a twelve of Sierra Nevada Beer School to go with crawfish today. Man that is some good stuff and I would love to get in on that action. that is here too. Also is the Sam Adams latitude 48 deconstructed. Thinking about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Some Stone Ruination IPA last night . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 2 4 packs of Dogfish 90 minute IPA Man, I'm not sure exactly what they've done with the Dogfish 60 minute lately, or if I just got a particularly good batch, but it's been incredible lately... Don't get me wrong, I've always liked the beer, but never really loved it as an IPA because of the fact that it's very malty for an IPA to the point of taking away from the hops. Perhaps it was actually more balanced this way, but this latest batch actually had the flavorful hops shine through as well, similar to the far less sessionable 90-minute IPA (though it too has a strong malty character for great balance). I've been going into the beer store every few days now until they run out, and will report back here if the next batch lives up to this outstanding one. Along with my favorite local pale Terrapin Rye and Heavy Seas Loose Cannon, this particular 60 minute recipe stands to be one of my staples if they can keep it up. Can't say enough good things about how delicious it's been. Other than that, it's been far too hot to do much experimentation. The Bells Oberon mini keg has been great for the hot months (though I found out the hard way you have to detap it after a day or so ), and the Sierra Nevada Beer Camp sampler has also been a nice selection too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) Lagunitas Maximus is a might fine IPA. And I've switched from SA Cherry Wheat as my mixer with Young's Chocolate to Founders Cerise. It's a cherry ale and is really good. Edit: Although the cost of the Cerise is $9.99 for four vs. $7.99 for six of the SA. So I'm not sure it's worth the extra cost per ounce. Edited June 9, 2011 by Puddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Some Stone Ruination IPA last night . . . that's really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Lagunitas Maximus is a might fine IPA. And I've switched from SA Cherry Wheat as my mixer with Young's Chocolate to Founders Cerise. It's a cherry ale and is really good. Edit: Although the cost of the Cerise is $9.99 for four vs. $7.99 for six of the SA. So I'm not sure it's worth the extra cost per ounce. no reason to spend that kinda money on a mixer. The Cerise deserves to be drunk on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 no reason to spend that kinda money on a mixer. The Cerise deserves to be drunk on its own. Agree...but the dork in me really appreciates the red color of the cerise beneath that smooth black double chocolate. Wait that sounds perverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh B Tool Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) Been loving Lagunitas and Firestone Walker lately, a lot. Especially Lagunitas Wilco Tango Foxtrot and Walkers Double Barrell Ale. Can't get enough of either. Firestone Walkers Abacus is a favorite too. They make Trader Joes Mission St. series which are really decent beers for the pricepoint. Also Deschutes Summer series is out and this years is so good that drinking too many too fast can turn into a habit quickly. Edited June 9, 2011 by Hugh B Tool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 no reason to spend that kinda money on a mixer. The Cerise deserves to be drunk on its own. Word. I've tried that against any number of cherry lambics and it certainly holds it's own if not better. On another note: Just tried Stone's Belgo Anise, which is their Belgian-style Russian Imperial Stout with Anise. Whatever that is. But it's pretty damned tasty. Second big black beer with anise that I've liked. The other being Crooked Line Labyrinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inhiding Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Been loving Lagunitas and Firestone Walker lately, a lot. Especially Lagunitas Wilco Tango Foxtrot and Walkers Double Barrell Ale.Can't get enough of either. Firestone Walkers Abacus is a favorite too. They make Trader Joes Mission St. series which are really decent beers for the pricepoint. Also Deschutes Summer series is out and this years is so good that drinking too many too fast can turn into a habit quickly. I love the Firestone Walker beers. Their Double Jack is amazing!! Its like drinking a grapefruit. Great thing is, they are only 1/2 hour away from me!! If you really want a good beery time, attend their anniversary release party in early November! Free Food, free music, free beer (rare ones at that!). They will pour every component that is in that years blend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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