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Where were you born?


rattsass
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It's funny, most Americans that I talk to freely admit that the President is just a "figure-head." Yet,when one tries to pinpoint the decision makers behind that figure head, that person is crucified. I don't think there is any question. When you connect the dots they all lead to the same conclusion. You don't have to look any further than the true axis of evil. The Bilderberg group. The Trilateral Commission. The CFR.

Or

? :wacko:
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You have to ask yourself, "why is it that no matter who we put in the White House the erosion of our nation continues?."

Uh, on what grounds are you claiming that our nation is eroding? Give us specific metrics.

Edited by wiegie
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In 1940 FDR defeated internationalist Wendell Willkie, who wrote a book entitled "One World," and later became a CFR member. Congressman Usher Burdick protested at the time on the floor of the House that Willkie was being financed by J.P. Morgan and the New York utility bankers. Polls showed few Republicans favored him, yet the media portrayed him as THE Republican candidate.

 

Since that time nearly ALL presidential candidates have been CFR members. President Truman, who was not a member, was advised by a group of "wise men," all six of whom were CFR members, according to Gary Allen. In 1952 and 1956, CFR Adlai Stevenson challenged CFR Eisenhower.

 

In 1960, CFR Kennedy (who was probably killed because he had the courage NOT to go along with all their plans) CFR Nixon. In 1964 the GOP stunned the Establishment by nominating its candidate over Nelson Rockefeller.

 

Rockefeller and the CFR wing proceeded to picture Barry Goldwater as a dangerous radical. In 1968 CFR Nixon ran against CFR Humphrey. The 1972 "contest" featured CFR Nixon vs. CFR McGovern.

 

CFR candidates for president include George McGovern, Walter Mondale, Edmund Muskie, John Anderson, and Lloyd Bentsen. In 1976 we had Jimmy Carter, who is a member of the Trilateral Commission, created by David Rockefeller and CFR member Zbigniew Brzezinski with the goal of economic linkage between Japan, Europe, and the United States, and: "...managing the world economy...a smooth and peaceful evolution of the global system." We have also had (though his name strangely disappears from the membership list in 1979) CFR director (1977-79) George Bush, and last but not least, CFR member Bill Clinton.

 

They have all promoted the "New World Order," controlled by the United Nations. The problem is that "...the present United Nations organization is actually the creation of the CFR and is housed on land in Manhattan donated to it by the family of current CFR chairman David Rockefeller," as Pat Robertson describes it.

 

The original concept for the UN was the outcome of the Informal Agenda Group, formed in 1943 by Secretary of State Cordell Hull. All except Hull were CFR members, and Isaiah Bowman, a founding member of the CFR, originated the idea.

 

The American delegation to the San Francisco meeting that drafted the charter of the United Nations in 1949 included CFR members Nelson Rockefeller, John Foster Dulles, John McCloy, and CFR members who were communist agents--Harry Dexter White, Owen Lattimore, and the Secretary-General of the conference, Alger Hiss. In all, the Council sent forty-seven of its members in the United States delegation, effectively controlling the outcome.

 

Since that time the CFR and its friends in the mass media (largely controlled by CFR members such as Katherine Graham of the "Washington Post" and Henry Luce of" Time, Life"), foundations, and political groups have lobbied consistently to grant the United Nations more authority and power. Bush and the Gulf War were but one of the latest calls for a "New World Order."

 

Admiral Chester Ward, a member of the CFR for over a decade, became one of its harshest critics, revealing its inner workings in a 1975 book, "Kissinger ON THE COUCH." In it he states "The most powerful cliques in these elitist groups have one objective in common: they want to bring about the surrender of the sovereignty and national independence of the United States."

 

Most members are one-world-government ideologists whose long- term goals were officially summed up in September 1961 State Department Document 7277, adopted by the Nixon Administration: "...elimination of all armed forces and armaments except those needed to maintain internal order within states and to furnish the United Nations with peace forces...by the time it (UN global government) would be so strong no nation could challenge it."

 

Within the CFR there exists a "much smaller group but more powerful...made up of Wall Street international bankers and their key agents. Primarily, they want the world banking monopoly from whatever power ends up in control of the global government ...This CFR faction is headed by the Rockefeller brothers," according to Ward.

 

What must be remembered is that this is not some lunatic- fringe group...these are members of one of the most powerful private organizations in the world: the people who determine and control American economic, social, political, and military policy. Members' influence and control extends to "leaders in academia, public service, business, and the media," according to the CFR 1993 "Annual Report."

 

Their founding they describe as: "American Participants in the Paris Peace Conference decided that it was time for more private Americans to become familiar with the increasing responsibilities and obligations of the United States...there was a need for an organization able to provide for the continuous study of U.S. foreign police for the BENEFIT OF ITS MEMBERS (emphasis mine) and a wider audience of interested Americans."

 

They sponsor hundreds of programs, where members "exchange views with American and foreign officials and policy experts... discuss foreign policy issues...consider international issues of concern to the business community" (Corporate business), and "...affiliated groups of community leaders throughout the United states...meet with decision makers."

 

The CFR states that it is "host to many views, advocate of none," and it "has no affiliation with the U.S. government." No, no affiliation at all, if you don't count: "A Council member was elected president of the United States...Dozens of other Council colleagues were called to serve in cabinet and sub-cabinet positions," as they describe it in "Foreign Affairs," along with many members of Congress, the Supreme Court, the Joint Chiefs, the Federal Reserve, and many other Federal bureaucrats.

 

They are not AFFILIATED with government, they ARE the government, in effect.

 

One re-occurring view was stated in the 50th anniversary issue of "Foreign Affairs," the official publication of the CFR. In an article by Kingman Brewster, Jr. entitled "Reflections on Our National Purpose." Our purpose should be, according to him, to do away with our nationality, to "take some risks in order to invite others to pool their sovereignty with ours..."

 

These "risks" include disarming to the point where we would be helpless against the "peace-keeping" forces of a global UN government. We should happily surrender our sovereignty to the world government in the interests of the "world community."

 

Today we have the spectacle of Spc. 4 Michael New, a U.S. soldier in Germany who refuses to wear the uniform of the UN, facing an "administrative discharge." He states rightly that he swore an oath to defend the U.S. Constitution, not the United Nations. Many other Americans have taken that same oath, such as myself, and believe it is our sworn duty still to defend the Constitution, since an oath sworn before God must be fulfilled. (Why else do we swear to tell the truth in our courts, or when taking public office?) Is it a crime these days to actually BELIEVE in God and the oath that was taken?

 

Meanwhile, others who attempt to destroy the Constitution and our sovereignty are given honors and position...At least they are not hypocrites...only supremely arrogant.

 

"In short, the 'house of world order' will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down...An end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old fashioned assault..." in the opinion of Richard N. Gardner, former deputy assistant Secretary of State in "Foreign Affairs," April 1974.

 

James Warburg, son of CFR founder Paul Warburg, and a member of FDR's "brain trust," testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17, 1950, "We shall have world government whether or not you like it--by conquest or consent."

 

Is this an AMERICAN speaking, or a dangerous lunatic? Who is this "We" who threatens to CONQUER us?

 

They are a group that actually has the power to do it, and is doing it every day, bit by bit.

 

CFR Members in the mass media, education, and entertainment push their propaganda of "humanism" and world brotherhood. We should all live in peace under a world government, and forget about such selfish things as nationalities and patriotism. We can solve our own problems. We don't need God, or morals, or values: it's all relative, anyway, right?...Because if we actually had some moral character and values, we might be able to discern that these people are actually EVIL.

 

The Bible says that the LOVE of money is the root of all evil (1 Tim. 6:10). These people are evil because they love money and power, and greed drives them to do anything to achieve their goals. They have lost all morality and conscience, and believe such concepts, as well as our Constitution, "outdated".

 

THAT is insanity--to have more wealth than can be spent, and still it is never enough. They have to control governments, start wars, conspire to rule the world; least the "common people" wake up to how they have gained their wealth, take it away from them, and demand that they pay the price for their crimes.

 

That is why they constantly pit us one against the other, with "Diversity," Affirmative Action, and other programs,...black against white, men against women, rural against urban, ranchers against environmentalists, and on and on...lest we look in their direction.

 

We The People are held to a much higher standard. If we threaten the President or a public official, we are charged with a crime...yet the One-World-Gang can threaten the Constitution and the liberties of We The People, the sovereign rulers of this nation, and nothing is said or done.

 

Perhaps they do not fear what Man can do to them... they believe they have arranged everything, and their power and wealth will prevail in this world. However, those among them who have sworn an oath before God to uphold and defend the Constitution: the President, members of Congress, and the military; may find one day that they do indeed have something to fear.

 

List of CFR Members

 

Colonel House, the fallen angel, still has relatives controlling the CFR. Karen Elliot House is Chairman of the Membership Committee, and a member of the Nominating Committee, along with Jeane Kirkpatrick. David Rockefeller is now "Honorary Chairman of the Board", after serving as Chairman 1970-1985; and "Director Emeritus," after serving as a Director 1949-1985. Peter G. Peterson is Chairman, Admiral B. R. Inman is Vice Chairman, while Thomas Foley and Jeane Kirkpatrick are Directors serving on the Executive Committee.

 

These "private citizens" have access to government officials and policy makers as often as they wish, yet the results of their meetings can only be given to other government officials, corporate officers, or law partners. Participants are forbidden to transmit an attributed statement to any public medium, such as newspapers or TV, where there is "risk that it will promptly be widely circulated or published," as the "Annual Report" puts it.

 

Should not OUR public officials be forbidden to meet in secret with private groups? Public officials should only be allowed to discuss public business and policy in a public forum. The Public...remember US?

 

There is much more to say about this group and their plans for America. Gary Allen, in "The Rockefeller File," states that they are behind the many regional government plans, which would abolish city, county, and state lines, leaving us at the mercy of federal bureaucrats; and behind the push for "land use" controls. They want "federal control of everything. Since they intend to control the federal government..."

 

There are also the many allegations of involvement in gun running, drug smuggling, prostitution and sex slaves; and the many mysterious assassinations and "suicides" of witnesses and others who get too close to the truth...but that is another story.

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So you are the guy talking about the super secret world puppet master group, seemingly drawn from the pages of the Marvel Universe - and I am the guy who is dreaming?

 

I - like Wiegie - am kind of happy with the life I have carved out for myself. It’s humble, and I still have a way to grow - but at the end of the day - I've a lot further to fall than I have to climb. Perhaps that keeps me from investing my time and energies, going out of my way, seeing who I can blame for the worlds problems.

 

So help me out here. What evils in the world is this group causing? You are clearly privy to this info (seeing as folk, who just aren't seeing it, are in a dream world) so perhaps you could enlighten me with just a taste of what all is going on - nothing based in conjecture or with lines that you or somebody else connected - but something that would be clear to a person who doesn't go around looking for conspiracy theories w/o cause.

 

Please give me a few factual accounts of what this group has done so I have a starting point because the world is just too big of a place and I don't have the time to look at every injustice in the world (most of which have been there since the beginning of time and are hard wired into our human nature) to evaluate which are caused by people being people and which are caused by secret super villains.

 

I just fear that without something substantial and factual that - it would be unwise to piss my life and free time away evaluating every evil in the world and how it can be connected to the boogie man.

 

wow, did you really just pull all those assumptions out of your arse?

 

you assume that I'm not happy just because I can point out a group of wealthy people that are able to manipulate governments and financial systems out of greed?...

 

if you're getting all this from what I'm saying, then maybe you shouldn't be responding...go back to your regularly scheduled program

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I think a good place to start in your quest for truth would be to take a good look at every presidential election. Find me a presidential candidate outside of Reagan (who survived an assassination attempt early in his term) that has not been aligned with the CFR and/or the Trilateral Commission. As I have stated numerous times, the same people that formed Bilderberg formed those groups.

 

Aligned? What the heck does that mean? Sounds like there's some grey area and leaps needed to connect these lines.

It should be no secret that these people share circles. Power and influence breed power and influence. This is nothing new. The world becomes a very small place and your circle of peers becomes smaller when you rich and powerful.

 

It should be no surprise that people in finance might share circles with people in finance and that people in politics might share circles with other people in politics. General contractors will tend share circles with other general contractors and doctors will tend to share circles with other doctors.

Should it be any surprise if Payton Manning shows up at one of Tom Brady’s golfing event?

 

We’re talking about head’s of the most powerful nation on Earth here. There is no way in this world or any other that people get elected to such a position without being super connected – because the presidency tends to be at the end of a very long journey that requires connections the whole way through.

 

Is it crappy? I guess. Is it sinister, not really.

 

First of all you have to yearn for the truth. You have to ask yourself, "why is it that no matter who we put in the White House the erosion of our nation continues?." You have to decide in your mind that we have been traveling down the wrong road, and seek out the cause for that.

 

Is that what I have to do? So if I see the erosion of nation and planet and write things off as a bad cocktail of human nature, technology and over population, I am not doing what I ought to be doing?

 

That's funny? Everything in this universe begins - grows robust and burns out. How is it that we should be any different?

 

It's funny, most Americans that I talk to freely admit that the President is just a "figure-head." Yet,when one tries to pinpoint the decision makers behind that figure head, that person is crucified. I don't think there is any question. When you connect the dots they all lead to the same conclusion. You don't have to look any further than the true axis of evil. The Bilderberg group. The Trilateral Commission. The CFR.

There are VERY few people in this world that are not living by another’s leave. The only person who is not living by another’s leave in this world is the one who managed to carve a modest living for himself and isn’t trying to control things. Politics and power are never one on one battles. There is you – and everybody else who wants what you have. The more fronts you have in a battle – the more likely you are to lose – so politicians find allies and spend their time in office – maintaining and placating those allies.

 

Again - Does it suck? Sure. Do they suck? Sure. Is it sinister? Sometimes I guess – but then power entices an inordinate amount of pathological personalities – and it’s the strongest of the pathogens that tend to rise to the top. Evil conspiracy? Nope. Human nature. Yep

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Uh, on what grounds are you claiming that our nation is eroding? Give us specific metrics.

You really can't be serious with this question can you? The tailgate would be full of tumbleweeds if there was no unrest.

 

Let's see, just off the top of my head, 10% unemployment. 60 million Americans on the government dole. Our deficit is now at 90% of GDP and rising. We are fighting two wars (at least officially) that seemingly have no exit point. Government scandals are at an all time high. (Basically because we choose sending people with the most money to represent us rather than people of high moral fibre. This in turn make is EASY for those pulling out political strings to manipulate their votes).

 

And lets not forget that big black swimming pool that used to be our Gulf Coast. All brought to you by your friendly neighborhood lobbyists and cozy regulator/big oil relationships.

 

We have let our civil rights be chipped away in the name of the War On Terror, a victory for the terrorists if there ever was one. We are a fat, lazy, apathetic, chloroformed society more concerned with American Idol than American values.

 

We don't manufacture anything. We don't produce food except as mandated by corporations. Foreign entities are buying our industries and our assets and hold the notes on our debts. We have put ourselves in a position for the first time to be at the mercy of the rest of the world. And there, my friends, is your New World Order.

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You really can't be serious with this question can you? The tailgate would be full of tumbleweeds if there was no unrest.

 

Let's see, just off the top of my head, 10% unemployment. 60 million Americans on the government dole. Our deficit is now at 90% of GDP and rising. We are fighting two wars (at least officially) that seemingly have no exit point. Government scandals are at an all time high. (Basically because we choose sending people with the most money to represent us rather than people of high moral fibre. This in turn make is EASY for those pulling out political strings to manipulate their votes).

 

And lets not forget that big black swimming pool that used to be our Gulf Coast. All brought to you by your friendly neighborhood lobbyists and cozy regulator/big oil relationships.

 

We have let our civil rights be chipped away in the name of the War On Terror, a victory for the terrorists if there ever was one. We are a fat, lazy, apathetic, chloroformed society more concerned with American Idol than American values.

 

We don't manufacture anything. We don't produce food except as mandated by corporations. Foreign entities are buying our industries and our assets and hold the notes on our debts. We have put ourselves in a position for the first time to be at the mercy of the rest of the world. And there, my friends, is your New World Order.

Here is the problem with the points you are using to prove your claim--you are arguing that the conspiracy goes back at least until the 1940s, but all of the bad stuff you are talking about didn't really exist until the last decade (and some of the stuff didn't even exist two months ago). Even more striking, over the last 70 years, the quality of life for most Americans has increased at a rate which is unprecedented in all of human history. If we are being controlled by some giant conspiracy, then it is the most benevolent conspiracy that could be imagined.

 

Edit to add: now let's be clear here, I am not arguing that we live in some Panglossian world where everything is wonderful, but even the most cursory examination of the facts shows that your conspiracy theory about all of us becoming exploited slaves is just sheer nonsense.

Edited by wiegie
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Here is the problem with the points you are using to prove your claim--you are arguing that the conspiracy goes back at least until the 1940s, but all of the bad stuff you are talking about didn't really exist until the last decade (and some of the stuff didn't even exist two months ago). Even more striking, over the last 70 years, the quality of life for most Americans has increased at a rate which is unprecedented in all of human history. If we are being controlled by some giant conspiracy, then it is the most benevolent conspiracy that could be imagined.

 

Edit to add: now let's be clear here, I am not arguing that we live in some Panglossian world where everything is wonderful, but even the most cursory examination of the facts shows that your conspiracy theory about all of us becoming exploited slaves is just sheer nonsense.

You are putting words in my mouth now. You asked how we are eroding. I gave you points off the top of my head. I did not enumerate facts to specifically support my claim.

 

If we are being controlled by some giant conspiracy, then it is the most benevolent conspiracy that could be imagined.

 

EXACTLY. It is not called the "Quiet War" for nothing.

 

And if you think that OUR DEBT exceeding 90% of GDP does not make you, me and our decendents exploited slaves in and of itself, then you have a different definition of slavery than I do.

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You are putting words in my mouth now. You asked how we are eroding. I gave you points off the top of my head. I did not enumerate facts to specifically support my claim.

Why the hell else would I ask that question?

If we are being controlled by some giant conspiracy, then it is the most benevolent conspiracy that could be imagined.

 

EXACTLY. It is not called the "Quiet War" for nothing.

uh, WHAT???

And if you think that OUR DEBT exceeding 90% of GDP does not make you, me and our decendents exploited slaves in and of itself, then you have a different definition of slavery than I do.
I'll go one further, not only do we have different definitions of slavery, I would suggest that we also have different definitions of reality.
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In 1940 FDR defeated internationalist Wendell Willkie, who wrote a book entitled "One World," and later became a CFR member. Congressman Usher Burdick protested at the time on the floor of the House that Willkie was being financed by J.P. Morgan and the New York utility bankers. Polls showed few Republicans favored him, yet the media portrayed him as THE Republican candidate.

 

=====================

- I have zero idea of where you are going with this one. Please explain how this is not politics as normal since the beginning of time?

=====================

 

Since that time nearly ALL presidential candidates have been CFR members. President Truman, who was not a member, was advised by a group of "wise men," all six of whom were CFR members, according to Gary Allen. In 1952 and 1956, CFR Adlai Stevenson challenged CFR Eisenhower.

 

=====================

So we're talking about an organization whose mission is to better understand global trends and contribute ideas to American foreign policy, right? You're surprised that most of our presidents have been members? We're talking about people who obviously share some interests; and one of those interest might be the US - and its strategic global interests.

 

In related news most lawyers are members of the Bar and most doctors are members of the AMA

 

Most of the 12 most powerful men in the world (all American) in the last 70 years - all happened to be members of an influential group looking to promote American interests. Spooky.

=====================

 

In 1960, CFR Kennedy (who was probably killed because he had the courage NOT to go along with all their plans) CFR Nixon. In 1964 the GOP stunned the Establishment by nominating its candidate over Nelson Rockefeller.

 

=====================

Facts are to the above claim - what food is to Mary Kate.

=====================

 

Rockefeller and the CFR wing proceeded to picture Barry Goldwater as a dangerous radical. In 1968 CFR Nixon ran against CFR Humphrey. The 1972 "contest" featured CFR Nixon vs. CFR McGovern.

 

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Evil: Professor Chaos style.

Really dude. Please explain what you are getting at with this one - outside of perhaps saying that many people - because of the circles they share, and the influence they need to garner and because they are into politics and have an interest in the United States - have been in this group and have been both winners and losers of American elections.

=====================

 

CFR candidates for president include George McGovern, Walter Mondale, Edmund Muskie, John Anderson, and Lloyd Bentsen. In 1976 we had Jimmy Carter, who is a member of the Trilateral Commission, created by David Rockefeller and CFR member Zbigniew Brzezinski with the goal of economic linkage between Japan, Europe, and the United States, and: "...managing the world economy...a smooth and peaceful evolution of the global system." We have also had (though his name strangely disappears from the membership list in 1979) CFR director (1977-79) George Bush, and last but not least, CFR member Bill Clinton.

 

=====================

There was a time a long time ago that I was an event coordinator for a couple big annual events designed for fund raising and so head honchos from all over could come to eat, drink their brains out, watch a steeple chase and network. I was involved in another event that was quite similar -but included the NY Philharmonic and Grucci Brothers fireworks instead of the steeply chase.

 

And evil of all evils - the people on the boards for these events were members of many other boards and think tanks. They were powerful and influential. Every board they were on or started made them more powerful and influential and they hungered for it. It was who they were and something that attracted them. I have no doubt that any one of them would have started or joined a think tank that tried to manage the world economy. True story.

 

Now there are a lot of times that think tanks are useful and I am not sure if the above was one or not - but I find no boogieman in this.

=====================

 

They have all promoted the "New World Order," controlled by the United Nations. The problem is that "...the present United Nations organization is actually the creation of the CFR and is housed on land in Manhattan donated to it by the family of current CFR chairman David Rockefeller," as Pat Robertson describes it.

 

=====================

Alright. You beat me. I started to read the Pat Roberson piece and don't have the energy to address all the grey area and leaps. Could you perhaps give provide something that is less of an opinion piece

Edited by Duchess Jack
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You are making all of this way too confusing. I am not here to convince anybody of anything. I am here to raise questions. You may answer those questions with your own rationale, as you have done above. You have made it very clear that you think there are no problems relating to the axis of evil. Fine. Maybe you are right. Maybe our eroding constitution is just a coincidence. Maybe nobody is pushing an agenda. Maybe the power elite (if you even admit they exist) really are just trying to bring the world together as one out of the goodness of their hearts. Probably so.

 

Isn't it interesting, though, that the two presidents we have had over the last half century that were most admired and STILL most admired by the American public were Kennedy (the one we "conspiracy" people foolishly believe was done in because he would not adhere to his masters every whim and was killed for) noted above, and Ronald Reagan (not a member of the private club) were both shot. Probably just another coincidence.

 

If you have some time this afternoon, and you are really interested in this subject, please go to this link http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/silen..._quiet_wars.htm and read the silen weapons for quiet wars document. It is like a play by play of the ills of our society over the last half century.

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Here are some quotes from a former Navy Admiral that spent 16 years in the CFR:

 

QUOTE #1: “Once the ruling members of the CFR have decided that the U.S. Government should adopt a particular policy, the very substantial research facilities of CFR are put to work to develop arguments, intellectual and emotional, to support the new policy, and to confound and discredit, intellectually and politically, any opposition.” (Admiral Chester Ward, Kissinger on the Couch, p. 151. 1975.)

 

Here is more context (all on pg 151):

 

When he [David Rockefeller], or any other influential member of the CFR, decides to take a hand in a policy or program within the cognizance of CFR, he will not act through the organization, but as leader of a sort of float ad hoc coalition with other influential members having similar objectives. The policy-making members use CFR as an instrument rather than as an organization. It has proven to be a tool of great value, especially for propagandizing.

 

Once the ruling members of the CFR have decided that the U.S. Government should adopt a particular policy, the very substantial research facilities of CFR are put to work to develop arguments, intellectual and emotional, to support the new policy, and to confound and discredit, intellectually and politically, any opposition. The most articulate theoreticians and ideologists prepare related articles,a ided by the research, to sell the new policy and to make it appear inevitable and irresistible. By following the evolution of this propaganda in the most prestigious scholarly journal in the world, Foreign Affairs, anyone can determine years in advance what the future defense and foreign policies of the United States will be. If a certain proposition is repeated often enough in that journal, then the U.S. Administration in power--be it Republican or Democratic--begins to act as if that proposition or assumption were an established fact.

 

QUOTE #2: “[the CFR has as a goal of] submergence of U.S. sovereignty and national independence into an all-powerful one-world government.… this lust to surrender the sovereignty and independence of the United States is pervasive throughout most of the membership.… In the entire CFR lexicon, there is no term of revulsion carrying a meaning so deep as ‘America First’” (Admiral Chester Ward, Kissinger on the Couch, pp. 144-150. 1975

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Most of the 12 most powerful men in the world (all American) in the last 70 years - all happened to be members of an influential group looking to promote American interests. Spooky.

 

From a purely historical perspective, I'd dispute this by simply stating that both Hitler and Stalin were at the apex of their powers within the last 70 years.

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From a purely historical perspective, I'd dispute this by simply stating that both Hitler and Stalin were at the apex of their powers within the last 70 years.

Out of all of the sh|t in this thread to dispute, you choose to focus on this? :wacko:

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So did anybody read the Quiet Wars?

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Well, yeah, since none of the rest is worth my time.

cattle

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