Where were you born?

[Avernus]

Oh no, I'm not saying that at all. If you've read anything I've posted in the past you'll see that I believe that personal greed rules the day as far as our leaders are concerned. What's that old saying? Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I don't see a "New World Order" as the end goal of these folks, I just see them trying to line their pockets and it coming at the expense of the average American. What I refuse to do is to read more into it than is actually there.

 

exactly, but even Rockefeller said that people are getting smarter, so it appears their plan is to make the current system fail almost deliberately and finally push through digital currency which can be manipulated even easier than money because it takes nothing to create purchasing power, but they have all the means to control it whenever they see fit...

 

plus you'll have the conversion of what your dollars will translate into whatever microchip they put in our cards (and no, I'm not one of those nuts that really thinks they'll be microchipping people) as they always have a worst case scenario that people will be in an outrage over and then they'll just have all your information in these RFID chips which will be in every ID card....

 

and it would allow for global distribution of purchasing power...

 

and it all sounds nuts, I even thought this a few years ago...but after witnessing what has occurred globally over the past 2 years, it's almost as if the powers that be want the system to fail so they can implement a new one and this is just the scenario where people will be begging for a new system if it continues the current path

[Kid Cid]

All I am fishing for is a few good Americans that give a RATTSASS about our future. I found a couple. But mostly I found people that want to argue about the past. Hopefully this extended venture will at least open a few eyes. Maybe people will start to realize that the two parties Tailgaters like to argue against or defend are really both useless props, neither is worthy of defending.

 

I realize I am fighting an uphill battle. To make people realize that WE must take control of our country. We must reallize who our TRUE enemies are and dispose of them as our Constitution allows.

 

I'm really sorry if all this has annoyed your sensibilities, but I am more pissed off that my fellow Americans aren't more pissed off about how we have been compromised. We need to take action, and if I have inspired even one of you to at least examine where we are and where we are headed, it has all been worth it.

 

And TimC: I think the revolution has already started. We will find out for sure in November. Let's make it happen.

 

Step 1: Do not vote for the candidate that has raised the most campaign money. If they are being overly financed by big business or the national party, that is a great sign of trouble to come.

Sigh...You haven't annoyed my sensibilities, you've just annoyed me. What you ask for in the last sentence is spot on, how you've structured your argument to convince people of your position is piss poor. Coming in here and ranting and raving about the Trilateral Commission, the CFR, the Bilderberg, and a New World Order is not going to convince anyone of anything other than your mental instability. Present a sound, reasoned, logical argument and people will listen to what you have to say, even if they don't agree with it.

[billay]

Are you proposing that we completely ignore what is going on in the world around us, well, the world outside of our community? That is no solution, that is simply hiding your head in the sand and pretending that all is ok...

 

If I've misunderstood, please elaborate.

Well, let me begin by saying that I've only just skimmed this thread. So, there's my disclaimer. But ratass seems to be railing against a global power structure that has "bought" the government, and rendered the amercian voter little more than an afterthought. But calling for a mass displacement of our elected officials wouldn't fundamentally address the problem, if it addressed it at all. If you want to attack the "structure" you've got to get at its financing. As an individual, that's not realistic, but what you can do is stop giving them your money, and you can to that varying degrees of severity. Such a change in lifestyle, mind you, probably won't make a significant impact in your lifetime, but if enough people do it, over time, it would have an effect. Virtually every dollar you pay, for every convenience you enjoy gets routed into this so called "structure" one way or another.

 

If you want to change things, start by stop giving them your money.

[Avernus]

Did George Washington and Thomas Jefferson sit around on the innernets waiting for November to vote themselves to power? Heck no....they took control and kicked ass of the people in power right now. I'll be in DC for the next 2 weeks doing a systems conversion and probably bored out of my mind. We need to start at the Newseum...which is the building I'll be in...and work our way outward.

 

First you control the media and the news. What better place than the Newseum to start? Sure beats sitting in a hotel room playing Pokerstars.

 

I've always pondered the idea that they had this in mind all along, but that's just the devil's advocate speaking....

 

the whole bait and reel trick...create paradise and then lull the people into a false sense of security.....and then you have what you see today - a nation of idiots (have you seen most of the youth the past couple generations?) people are focused on fashion trends, chitty music, american idol...and change

[Avernus]

Sigh...You haven't annoyed my sensibilities, you've just annoyed me. What you ask for in the last sentence is spot on, how you've structured your argument to convince people of your position is piss poor. Coming in here and ranting and raving about the Trilateral Commission, the CFR, the Bilderberg, and a New World Order is not going to convince anyone of anything other than your mental instability. Present a sound, reasoned, logical argument and people will listen to what you have to say, even if they don't agree with it.

 

while I completely agree with you, it's difficult to present an argument that most of the people in the room are going to seriously balk at and then ridicule without even hearing the other side of the argument....

 

plus there is no "proof" because the proof that most the people who are ridiculing want to see is ....

 

"The Bilderberg group will run the world and then...the universe BAHAHA " - David Rockefeller

 

you're just not going to see that, and instead you'll have to do your homework...(not you specifically as you seem to have at least done some reading on this, but rather the people who like to throw around the infamous graemlin)

[rattsass]

I'm not exactly sure what it is you propose that people do about it. IF what you are arguing is true, then who we elect to office will have little impact on the structure such as it is. You want to do something about it? Turn off your television, support local farmers markets, get off the grid...

Man, you are not going to be able to hide from this. It will find you one way or another. Turning off your TV is a goo idea. (except for NFL season of course) And going to Farmers Markets is great. Electing REAL people to office CAN make a difference but it is going to take time to cleanse the system. In the meantime we can intimidate them with our unpredictable voting patterns. We have become far far too predictable.

 

But the main problem I see is changing perceptions. The mass media has such a death-grip on Joe Public, I fear things may reach the point of no return before it becomes too unbearable for the average American. But we have the numbers. And we have the internet. And we have friends and neighbors. We must make people see that there are ways out of this, but we must take action now.

 

I'm not doing this for fun and games. If you know my writing, you know that I have pretty good "instincts" and my instincts tell me that we are in desperate times as a country. And I don't care whether you believe in any of the conspiracy theories or not. The fact is, every civilization has been felled at some point, except this one. But it seems clear to me that it is well on its way.

[Avernus]

Well, let me begin by saying that I've only just skimmed this thread. So, there's my disclaimer. But ratass seems to be railing against a global power structure that has "bought" the government, and rendered the amercian voter little more than an afterthought. But calling for a mass displacement of our elected officials wouldn't fundamentally address the problem, if it addressed it at all. If you want to attack the "structure" you've got to get at its financing. As an individual, that's not realistic, but what you can do is stop giving them your money, and you can to that varying degrees of severity. Such a change in lifestyle, mind you, probably won't make a significant impact in your lifetime, but if enough people do it, over time, it would have an effect. Virtually every dollar you pay, for every convenience you enjoy gets routed into this so called "structure" one way or another.

 

If you want to change things, start by stop giving them your money.

[MikesVikes]

All I am fishing for is a few good Americans that give a RATTSASS about my version of the future. I found a couple.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2010 by MikesVikes

[Avernus]

Are you proposing that we completely ignore what is going on in the world around us, well, the world outside of our community? That is no solution, that is simply hiding your head in the sand and pretending that all is ok...

 

If I've misunderstood, please elaborate.

 

 

my strategy has been to stop using banks - I still haven't been able to do this (yet) - but this will be extremely tricky with the way our system is currently set up..

 

on top of that, I go to the dutch market for the bulk of my food and I try to stay away from supermarkets which sell mostly GMO products anyways so I'm killing two birds with one stone, I also only watch TV for movies and sports...

 

I rely on the internet for my news and try to manage where my money is going...

[rattsass]

Mike, your short snipes are tiresome and hardly add to the discussion. Why don't you enlighten us with YOUR version of our future? Just how is this mess and your child's $50'000 debt to our government going to magically all get better. Go ahead and paint me your rosy little picture. I'm really interested in how your fairly tale goes.

[rattsass]

Mike, your short snipes are tiresome and hardly add to the discussion. Why don't you enlighten us with YOUR version of our future? Just how is this mess and your child's $50'000 debt to our government going to magically all get better. Go ahead and paint me your rosy little picture. I'm really interested in how your fairly tale goes.

I won't wait for a reply, I have to go to work and pay off that money we gave to Goldman Sachs.

[MikesVikes]

Mike, your short snipes are tiresome and hardly add to the discussion. Why don't you enlighten us with YOUR version of our future? Just how is this mess and your child's $50'000 debt to our government going to magically all get better. Go ahead and paint me your rosy little picture. I'm really interested in how your fairly tale goes.

 

I believe the title of this topic is...Where were you born...and where was Obama born? So you were expecting this to morph into a conversation about government entitlements? Entitlements ie government handouts.

Edited June 14, 2010 by MikesVikes

[billay]

Man, you are not going to be able to hide from this. It will find you one way or another. Turning off your TV is a goo idea. (except for NFL season of course) And going to Farmers Markets is great. Electing REAL people to office CAN make a difference but it is going to take time to cleanse the system. In the meantime we can intimidate them with our unpredictable voting patterns. We have become far far too predictable.

 

But the main problem I see is changing perceptions. The mass media has such a death-grip on Joe Public, I fear things may reach the point of no return before it becomes too unbearable for the average American. But we have the numbers. And we have the internet. And we have friends and neighbors. We must make people see that there are ways out of this, but we must take action now.

 

I'm not doing this for fun and games. If you know my writing, you know that I have pretty good "instincts" and my instincts tell me that we are in desperate times as a country. And I don't care whether you believe in any of the conspiracy theories or not. The fact is, every civilization has been felled at some point, except this one. But it seems clear to me that it is well on its way.

Hide from what exactly? Forgive me for saying so but personally, I think I've got more to fear from the likes of you and your paranoid, fear mongering, Calvinistic ilk, than I do from the CEO of Bank of America.

[Azazello1313]

The first thing people need to understand is that the economic crash wasn’t a crash for the people who caused it. In fact, these financial terrorists are now doing better than ever. In a recent report, titled “Social Inequality in America: Widening Income Disparities,” more evidence of the unprecedented transfer of wealth was revealed:

 

“As of late 2009, the number of billionaires soared from 793 to 1,011, and their total fortunes from $2.4 trillion to $3.6 trillion…. Despite the crisis, the list of billionaires has grown by 218 people and their aggregate capital has expanded by 50%. This may seem paradoxical, but only at first glance. This result was predictable, if we recall how governments all over the world have dealt with the economic crisis.”

 

OK ratass, I'm not going to go through the barrage of copy&paste crap in all of these pots, I'm going to just start at the beginning of the first one.

 

ok, "as of late 2009, the number of billionaire soard from 793 to 1011"....ok, over what time period? when was the 793? because ACTUALLY, at the peak of the economic crisis, income of those at the very top DECREASED, as is typical in recessions, with capital gains getting murdered.

 

The inequality of wealth in the United States between the economic top 0.5% and the remaining 99.5% of the population is now at an all-time high. The economic top 1% of the population now controls a record 70% of all financial assets. The point here is that while the economic crisis has been devastating for 99% of America, the Wall Street elite are awash in record breaking profits. The most profitable firm in Wall Street history, Goldman Sachs, just had their most profitable quarter in their 140-year history and Wall Street firms issued an all-time record breaking amount in bonuses.

 

All of this is occurring after giving these firms $14 TRILLION in taxpayer support - that works out to be $46,662 of your hard-earned money. That’s $46,662 for every man, woman and child in this country. If you have a family of four, sorry, your future just got robbed and you and your children just lost $186,648!

 

well look, I agree that there is a cronyist elite pulling a lot of these strings, that there is way too much overlap and coziness between washington and goldman and the fed, etc. but I don't see it as a breeding ground for malevolence so much as for groupthink and false confidence. where you see some sinister plot to conspire, I just see plain old bumbling incompetence, and a lot of people who aren't as smart and in control as they think they are (let alone, as in control as YOU think they are). NOBODY benefitted from the financial crisis. about the most you can say is that the coziness wall street enjoyed with policy makers allowed a lot of them to mitigate their damages. but, considering the alternative was basically a complete meltdown of the financial system, ok, maybe we ought to be able to live with it.

 

So what are all these firms doing with these record-breaking profits? Are they returning them into the tax system in which they came from, the tax system that was looted just to keep their scam running?

 

No!

 

Let’s start with Wells Fargo. After being bailed out with our money in 2008, their top five executives DOUBLED their compensation and each one of them made over $11 million in 2009. Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf made off with a cool $21.3 million last year.

 

And now comes news that Bank of America and Wells Fargo will pay zero, yes ZERO in federal taxes for 2009. Bank of America will net a $3.6 BILLION benefit from the federal government in 2009. Wells Fargo, after $8 BILLION in earnings for 2009, will net $4 BILLION from the federal government.

 

this is all just framed so disingenuously. ok, so their compensation doubled from 2008 to 2009. hmm, what they don't tell you is how much their 2008 compensation decreased from 2007. assuming their compensation is tied to stock performance and such, the stock market got massively rocked in 2008, then rebounded by 20-something percent in 2009. so yeah, there is going to be a big jump in their compensation from 2008 to 2009. AND both of those banks paid back their bailout funds.

 

now I'm sure I could go through the whole article(s) like this, but the point is, what you're posting is little pieces of fact couched within disingenuous propaganda to try and further a theory that just doesn't bear scrutiny. the true facts are problematic enough, without dressing them up in the costume of Global New World Order conspiracy nonsense. it's kinda like 9/11, man that just opened so many cans about government policy and where it failed and how it should react, WITHOUT resorting to the simplisitically insane worldview that the US government carried out the attacks. I think the world is COMPLICATED, and bad things happen because we don't know all the answers -- call it cognitive failure, and I see it everywhere around us. you, on the other hand, see bad things happen, and blame it on the global illuminati boogeyman. because in your little flailing adolescent worldview, somebody has to be pulling the strings so you can point the finger. but of course, you're the only one who CARES enough to be willing to look for THE REAL ANSWERS!

Edited June 14, 2010 by Azazello1313

[mrip]

We the people will never have the real answers. The stakes are way too high for our government to allow normal citizens to have any real say or know what's really going on. The World is ruled by criminals and it always will be.

[alexgaddis]

what you're posting is little pieces of fact couched within disingenuous propaganda to try and further a theory that just doesn't bear scrutiny. the true facts are problematic enough, without dressing them up in the costume of Global New World Order conspiracy nonsense.

 

Winner winner chicken dinner

[MikesVikes]

The fact of the matter is, that the current economic problems that we have aren't sustainable. We can't maintain our current Health care system, we can't maintain our current taxation systems that we have now without a major upgrade. Things that we know will need to change. Change is never easy but not changing anything is not going to be the answer for very much longer.

[bpwallace49]

I get such a kick of people that say the incumbents are the problem . . . go ahead, vote them all out.

 

the Washington system (which is the staffers and lobbyists that ARENT elected) hold the majority of influence in DC anyways. Do you actually think that congressmen write their own bills? That is what STAFFERS are for!

 

Considering our Supreme Court just said that corporations have the rights of individuals when contributing to political campaigns . . gooood luck with all that. Considering how in this conspiracy theory that every news outlet is corrupted. Who do you think provides the exposure and airtime?

[SEC=UGA]

I get such a kick of people that say the incumbents are the problem . . . go ahead, vote them all out.

 

the Washington system (which is the staffers and lobbyists that ARENT elected) hold the majority of influence in DC anyways. Do you actually think that congressmen write their own bills? That is what STAFFERS are for!

 

Considering our Supreme Court just said that corporations have the rights of individuals when contributing to political campaigns . . gooood luck with all that. Considering how in this conspiracy theory that every news outlet is corrupted. Who do you think provides the exposure and airtime?

 

You think that republican staffers are going to get on board with the democrat that takes the place of the Republican that was voted out... ain't the way it works. I have had numerous friends that were staffers in D.C. it isn't that easy to jump around from politician to politician.

[MikesVikes]

I get such a kick of people that say the incumbents are the problem . . . go ahead, vote them all out.

 

Plus, what makes you think that the newly elected congress would have more answers than the old ones? Your only churning the problem, not solving it.

[Azazello1313]

best congress we've had in decades was the one that came in in 95, with all those democratic incumbents (and definitely a few republicans too) being tossed out on their ass. they actually CUT spending. they almost passed some kind of term limits. the idea of voting out all the incumbents has some pragmatic merit to it, IMO.

[wiegie]

best congress we've had in decades was the one that came in in 95, with all those democratic incumbents (and definitely a few republicans too) being tossed out on their ass. they actually CUT spending.

they also wasted a hell of a lot of time worrying about a blow-job

[SEC=UGA]

Plus, what makes you think that the newly elected congress would have more answers than the old ones? Your only churning the problem, not solving it.

 

It will demonstarte that we are willing to stand up to the people in Washington that have led us down this crappy path and that there is a likelhood that the same thing will happen again if they fail to represent their constituency.

 

It's better than sitting there with your thumb up you ass and doing nothing but complaining about things while letting these guys run willy nilly.

[Caveman_Nick]

Present a sound, reasoned, logical argument and people will listen to what you have to say, even if they don't agree with it.

 

Honestly....do you believe this? I find it to be untrue with most people. You might get through to a few, but not many.

[SEC=UGA]

they also wasted a hell of a lot of time worrying about a blow-job

 

Dude, it was perjury during a deposition for a suit filed by a woman that he sexually assaulted. It was much bigger than a fraking BJ.