delusions of grandeur Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) However, I think a lot of people look at some of these insurance policies and see what appears to be a pretty low premium and think, "What the hell? It costs as much as a soda a day." Or whatever BS rationale you're sold to justify buying into a bad-odds bet. The odds are absolutely priced into it. I pay more as a smoker than does someone who doesn't. You drive a new fast car that's more risky and expensive to repair and/or have had tickets/accidents, you'll pay more just the same. Life insurance is far cheaper for those who are still young and in good health, etc., etc. This is not some bad-odds bet, but Aflac is a business afterall, so of course the goal for them is to take in more than they pay out. However that doesn't make the service any less legitimate. As was mentioned above, unless you're a millionaire, then it's entirely possible that you'll end up with cancer and see every dollar you've ever earned wiped away. Self-inusring jsut isn't a viable option for most, and the unexpected does happen, even if the odds are slim. How much you pay for that insurance absolutely has to do with the amount of risk of cost they take on, as well as how much benefit it can provide, as it should be. Edited September 24, 2012 by delusions of grandeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I think Detlef shouldn't charge people more for his meals than what it costs him to make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) The odds are absolutely priced into it. I pay more as a smoker than does someone who doesn't. You drive a new fast car that's more risky and expensive to repair and/or have had tickets/accidents, you'll pay more just the same. Life insurance is far cheaper for those who are still young and in good health, etc., etc. This is not some bad-odds bet, but Aflac is a business afterall, so of course the goal for them is to take in more than they pay out. However that doesn't make the service any less legitimate. As was mentioned above, unless you're a millionaire, then it's entirely possible that you'll end up with cancer and see every dollar you've ever earned wiped away. Self-inusring jsut isn't a viable option for most, and the unexpected does happen, even if the odds are slim. How much you pay for that insurance absolutely has to do with the amount of risk of cost they take on, as well as how much benefit it can provide, as it should be. I'm not saying they're evil or anything and I do wish you'd not pretend that I'm saying that everyone should self insure everything. I specifically said that it makes perfect sense to insure yourself against anything that you absolutely can't afford to endure. I have health insurance and think it would be stupid for anyone not massively, massively wealthy not to have it. But have you looked at many of these AFLAC policies? The ones they were pushing hard to my staff were the ones that "so cheap you'd hardly miss the money each week." And you know why they're so cheap? Because they don't pay jack. You get a couple extra C's if you get hurt. But at what cost? And, yes, that's where I think they cross over into being sort of sleazy. About as sleazy as all the "get cash now if you accept credit cards" e-mails and phone calls I get. You really need to do the math to realize what a crappy deal it is. That's exactly what I was talking about when I started this thread. Next thing you know, everyone thinks I'm talking about climbing Mt Everest without a rope. I think Detlef shouldn't charge people more for his meals than what it costs him to make it. Nice try. Edited September 25, 2012 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) Using that argument, you could say that going to casinos are a fiscally prudent thing. Because for all the people who walk away having put more into the casino than they got out, a tiny sliver made bank. The odds on the craps table are the same whether you win or lose. So, it's not a "good deal" for anyone. Some people just manage to get lucky. And you don't need to be right 100% of the time. You just need to get injured no more often than "you should". casino example is the exact opposite -- the few who are extremely lucky, versus the few who are extremely UNlucky. the actuarial odds are stacked against you in both cases, that is true, otherwise why would the casino or the insurer offer their services? but the argument for insurance is that you can't afford `the scenario where you need it without it. you're buying security. same argument does not apply in a scenario where "your number getting called" is all upside. there your bad odds are buying thrill or entertainment. as far as "fiscal prudence" they are not at all the same. Edited September 25, 2012 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 casino example is the exact opposite -- the few who are extremely lucky, versus the few who are extremely UNlucky. the actuarial odds are stacked against you in both cases, that is true, otherwise why would the casino or the insurer offer their services? but the argument for insurance is that you can't afford `the scenario where you need it without it. you're buying security. same argument does not apply in a scenario where "your number getting called" is all upside. there your bad odds are buying thrill or entertainment. as far as "fiscal prudence" they are not at all the same. But you're still buying into a prop that is unlikely to pay you. Yes, in a casino, it's all good if it happens and in the case of insurance, you're still bummed because your got hurt or what-have-you. But you're still on the same side of the odds. That is, you pay a premium over the actual likelihood of whatever happening that gets you paid. And, again, in some cases, this is unavoidable and/or the costs associated with worst case scenarios are simply too high to risk. In those cases, I think it's a fine investment. I'm not sure why everyone continues to think that I'm advocating avoiding all insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I'm not sure why everyone continues to think that I'm advocating avoiding all insurance. from your first post However, when I walked away, I was reminded about my fundamental issue with insurance. That being, it can't be that good of a deal if someone is making money selling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 from your first post Gee, got me there professor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I've recently learned that cancer isn't cancer. Brain cancer isn't as serious as most types of cancer and cancer policies do not cover it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I've recently learned that cancer isn't cancer. Brain cancer isn't as serious as most types of cancer and cancer policies do not cover it. egads i better take my wife with me good cop bad cop, what a crock of chit i'll top Det and say there are evil people makin major tacos off of cancer and love it holy chit can this be true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I've recently learned that cancer isn't cancer. Brain cancer isn't as serious as most types of cancer and cancer policies do not cover it. If only we could have quality universal healthcare without all that disgusting socialism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I've recently learned that cancer isn't cancer. Brain cancer isn't as serious as most types of cancer and cancer policies do not cover it. :speechless but mad as hell: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 i'm printing this out and showing it to Premium boy, any objections it goes down taday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Just saw your last post, how did it go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Judging by what these guys were saying, it didn't seem like there was anything in their menu of options that would payout $100K under any circumstances. Well, besides life. And in that case, there are likely much better vehicles that double as a retirement account for that. Just have one question.....why on earth would you buy life insurance and have it double as a retirment account? If you are looking for life insurance, buy life insurance....if you are looking for retirment accumulation...make investments....they should and always shall remain two different endeavors. I will leave you with a couple of other thoughts that may or may not help you with your decision to allow AFLAC come in and speak to your employees. 1.) don't even read the posts of the folks who talk about people not being disciplined enough to set aside money to take care of themselves in the event of a catastrophe.....no one has the ability to predict when a disaster will happen or how severe can it be. 2.) Being an employer is a tough gig. You will have a ton of insurance folks knocking down your door to try and "help" you employees. Just remember, if the benefits being offered are good....and you are willing to take on the extra administrative payroll deductions....employee morale will be the biggest factor for why to offer this. 3.) to your description of people who sell insurance making money...so it is bad. You, I assume, make money selling food and spirits....am I to believe your food and drink is bad?? That type of thinking is neanderthal and makes very little sense from a logic standpoint. Also, how on eart can you compare buying insurance to going to the casino??? If you buy, and something happens that would trigger benefit, it pays out. However, as BC stated, if it doesn't happen, then those folks do have peace of mind that in case it does happen in the future, their lifestyle and the lifstyle of their family is covered. However, what type of peace of mind do you get going to a casino and losing money...all you did was lose money??? If you are lucky enough to hit it big, then great....how did that get you peace of mind or financial security?? Bottom line, quit making financial decisions for your employees based on your bias. Include them in the decision making process and ask them to review whatever AFLAC dropped off. Let them decide if they would actually purchase the protection. Let them decide if it is important in their lives. They will respect you much more for that....and since AFLAC is voluntary, it doesn't cost you a dime to provide access....except for the 2 hours per month doing the deductions and bill reconcilliation. Take care Detlef....nice seeing you again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Just saw your last post, how did it go? ok, i stiil gotta lock in but am set up to start 10/15/12 i'd really like to have 3 plans but am goin cheap 59.41/month accidental for me and wife, shes younger so got a better rate and still saved plan 2 wood have been an extra 84.11 for both....thats the stroke,heart,intensive care,cancer diagnosis plan 3 cancer was an extra 46.50 did ask him is cancer cancer do all types qualify and he said yes i just hated seein that 190/month bill for all 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 ok, i stiil gotta lock in but am set up to start 10/15/12 i'd really like to have 3 plans but am goin cheap 59.41/month accidental for me and wife, shes younger so got a better rate and still saved plan 2 wood have been an extra 84.11 for both....thats the stroke,heart,intensive care,cancer diagnosis plan 3 cancer was an extra 46.50 did ask him is cancer cancer do all types qualify and he said yes i just hated seein that 190/month bill for all 3 Ask him what cancer is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Ask him what cancer is. ya no chit after hearing your story i pressedm on that he also went into blood disorders and i had ta realm in about the cancer and that i need it in clear writting because what happened to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I have the accident plan through work, I think my premiums are $19 per pay period. My son broke his wrist this spring playing soccer and ended up needing surgery and seemingly endless trips to the doctor. I think Aflac paid out about $500 on the claim to cover my unreimbursed insurance expenses for things like splints, casts, the ER visit cost, etc. I would probably not bother to sign up for it again in the future, but all I ended up needing to do was fill out a form and fax some stuff to Aflac and they cut me a couple checks. It didn't cover all my out of pocket expenses, but it took a chunk of it away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I have the accident plan through work, I think my premiums are $19 per pay period. My son broke his wrist this spring playing soccer and ended up needing surgery and seemingly endless trips to the doctor. I think Aflac paid out about $500 on the claim to cover my unreimbursed insurance expenses for things like splints, casts, the ER visit cost, etc. I would probably not bother to sign up for it again in the future, but all I ended up needing to do was fill out a form and fax some stuff to Aflac and they cut me a couple checks. It didn't cover all my out of pocket expenses, but it took a chunk of it away. ya i'm not in a group so i get the shaft but i'm accident prone, i'll try it for a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 ya i'm not in a group so i get the shaft but i'm accident prone, i'll try it for a year Hence the tattoo getting the spike getting caught in your skin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Hence the tattoo getting the spike getting caught in your skin? that was a funny day, i get out of surgery and my wife says some tbimm called on yer phone so i toldm what happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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