wildcat2334 Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 Felix Hernandez just had his 30th quality start of the year- pretty good company 30 Quality Start List Baseball is such a numbers sport, I think he will end up taking it, although I don't have a problem with CC or Price winning Pretty exclusive company and a phenomenal season from start to end and one of the best in the past 30 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 I can't call this. Obviously I'm biased towards Felix, and most of the numbers back that up. Which ERA is more dominant, Felix at one of the premier pitcher's parks in alll of baseball, or CC's ERA at the launching pad that is the new Yankee stadium? Also, Felix didn't have to pitch a meaningful game with pressure all season long. CC and Price both had some major performances with a lot riding on that game. Felix wins 23 this year if he plays for the Yankees. CC wins roughly 13 if he plays for the Mariners. Strikeouts should not ever come into play when discussing successes of pitchers, so I can't give Felix any edge there. The biggest argument against Felix is that he should have found a way to win more games, but the guy has a .095 ERA over his last ten starts and is only 6-3. He is in the AL, so he can't put on a helmet and help his team hit. I really dunno. I think this is going to be a ridiculously close race. Felix's biggest hope is that a lot of the Sabathia and Price supporters kind of cancel each other out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 I saw the list as well (of pitchers who have thrown 30 quality starts in the same season, in the past 30 years)... It's a pretty damn impressive list. I'm not going to say whether or not that makes Felix the favorite for the CY, but he is certainly right at the top of the list. Very impressive, no matter what team you're on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 Steve Carlton won 27 games when his team only won like 60 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Steve Carlton won 27 games when his team only won like 60 or so. Very true, but I would bet that even then he got quite a bit more run support than Felix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 The more I think about it, the more I would be leaning towards Sabathia if I had a vote. He went 21-7 with an ERA in the low threes, while pitching his home games in a launching pad and being in the same division as Boston, Tampa and Toronto. How much lower would his ERA be if he got to play against Oakland and Anaheim instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) Very true, but I would bet that even then he got quite a bit more run support than Felix. maybe so but with a 1.97 ERA and 30 complete games I don't think it would have mattered much. fwiw I did a quick search and found 2 figures so not sure which is right but one showed that Carlton got 3.5 runs/start and another said he got 3.8 runs/start...and fwiw also the Phils only won 59 games that year. edit: also if you aren't getting run support than you are definitely going to increase your chances for a loss when you give up 5 or more runs in a start... Carlton only gave up 5+ runs 7% of the time in 72 and as good as Felix has been he has given up 5+ runs in 15% of his starts. Edited September 30, 2010 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) maybe so but with a 1.97 ERA and 30 complete games I don't think it would have mattered much. fwiw I did a quick search and found 2 figures so not sure which is right but one showed that Carlton got 3.5 runs/start and another said he got 3.8 runs/start...and fwiw also the Phils only won 59 games that year. edit: also if you aren't getting run support than you are definitely going to increase your chances for a loss when you give up 5 or more runs in a start... Carlton only gave up 5+ runs 7% of the time in 72 and as good as Felix has been he has given up 5+ runs in 15% of his starts. Runs or earned runs? In 34 starts, Felix has given up more than 4 earned runs three times... He's given up five runs once, and seven runs twice. That's less than ten percent. If you're talking runs in general, then yes, he's given up more than five two more times (five times total). One of those two times was on 8/15 at Cleveland... he gave up six runs (none of which were earned). The other was at Anaheim on 9/11, where he gave up seven runs (four earned). Either way, only three instances of more than four earned runs, in 34 starts, is incredible in any ballpark. I would agree that Carlton's season was probably SLIGHTLY better, but these types of seasons (pretty much absolute dominance, on a terrible team, to the point of getting serious CY consideration) only come around every decade or so. A couple of other stats that are pretty amazing, regarding the season that Hernandez is having... He has failed to complete the sixth inning only twice all season, and those were back-to-back starts back on May 1 and May 7. Also he has failed to get at least one batter out in the 7th inning (or later) only four times all season, the last of which was on June 8th. In his 21 starts SINCE June 8th, he's failed to complete the 7th inning only three times... in all three of those outings, he retired at least one batter in the 7th (but failed to complete the inning). Talk about an absolute workhorse. Edit: The only reason I ask whether you were referring to earned runs or not is that the "quality" starts criteria is based off of earned runs (I think), not just runs. Like I said, either way, Carlton was probably slightly better. Edited September 30, 2010 by Gopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) maybe so but with a 1.97 ERA and 30 complete games I don't think it would have mattered much. fwiw I did a quick search and found 2 figures so not sure which is right but one showed that Carlton got 3.5 runs/start and another said he got 3.8 runs/start...and fwiw also the Phils only won 59 games that year. edit: also if you aren't getting run support than you are definitely going to increase your chances for a loss when you give up 5 or more runs in a start... Carlton only gave up 5+ runs 7% of the time in 72 and as good as Felix has been he has given up 5+ runs in 15% of his starts. I don't think your math is quite right there. No way did Felix give up 5 runs in every 6th start. His ERA would have to be higher if he had. Carlton gave up 5 earned runs twice in 1972. Felix gave up 5 earned runs three times this season. 3 out of 34 starts is a ways under 10 percent. As of September 24, Felix had received 3.07 runs per game of support, which is substantially less than Carlton, and is also the lowest in the AL. Some interesting facts on Felix's season I do understand the context, but also feel it is important to note that Steve Carlton isn't in the running for the 2010 version of the AL Cy Young Award. Was Carlton's season tremendous? Absolutely. Even a little better than Felix's, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Felix's season isn't Cy Young worthy. Edited September 30, 2010 by Seahawks21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 fwiw I got those numbers from a blog that was pimping felix and it didnt state if they were earned or not...and I don't mean to take anything away from felix has he has been phenomenal for a bad team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted September 30, 2010 Author Share Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) will be interesting to see who takes it. All the number/saber metric-loving baseball dork writers will probably give it to Felix. Pitching is such an independent position, I think I saw with the worst run support in MLB - along with the 12 losses and 9 no decisions pretty telling stat really. He has had one of the best overall pitching perfromances in 30 years - all six of the 30 quailty start guys won the CY....... I saw a poll a few months back - Felix was overwhelmingly the first choice among GM's to head up a pitching staff. Cy or no Cy- he is the best pitcher in baseball Edited September 30, 2010 by wildcat2334 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh2 Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 I have read over at Yahoo that Fernandez has a run support of 3.09 runs per game. I doubt Price or CC could do better than 13 wins with that little run support or Seattle's defense behind him. CC's WHIP - 1.19, Price's WHIP - 1.20, and Fernandez's WHIP - 1.06. Definition - WHIP - Walks + Hits / Innings Pitched. I feel that Fernandez should be the winner. See last years results. Lincencum and Greinke both had under 15 wins (14 I think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Felix will get some sypathy votes for not receiving it last year, as he was a dominant pitcher last year too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 I have read over at Yahoo that Fernandez has a run support of 3.09 runs per game. I feel that Fernandez should be the winner. Was for a little while wondering who this Fernandez guy is and who he plays for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No2011Lockout Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Felix Hernandez is a beast, and anyone who says anything else is silly lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 The more I think about it, the more I would be leaning towards Sabathia if I had a vote. He went 21-7 with an ERA in the low threes, while pitching his home games in a launching pad and being in the same division as Boston, Tampa and Toronto. How much lower would his ERA be if he got to play against Oakland and Anaheim instead? I think CC beat my Orioles about 17 times this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Wins are not an accurate measurement of a pitcher's skill. He's dominant in all the stats that matter. Give it to Felix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 Props to King Felix for the AL Cy Young- well deserved and some much needed good news for Seattle sports fans........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 This award should go to the most dominant pitcher. It isn't an MVP award. It went to the right player, and the voting reflects that. I like to look at it this way: If you want to win a world series next year, which pitcher would you want above all of the others, of course with the caveat one could expect repeat performances? That's an easy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Props to King Felix for the AL Cy Young- well deserved and some much needed good news for Seattle sports fans........... Yes, beyond college b-ball, it's been a long disappointing run for quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 well deserved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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