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Starting Lineup Controversy


golfishgrace
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this thread is funny. I think anyone would tell you all along that there was, say, a 30% chance TJ would outscore CJ this particular week. I don't see how hitting on the 30% changes the collusion dynamic one bit. again, not saying it was collusion, just that it was a situation tailor made for collusion to creep in, and then a decision to sit the #1 overall pick in FF for very mediocre other options -- it's just something that, when her team is playing for nothing, is predictably and understandably going to raise eyebrows.

 

this sort of thing is inevitably going to come up in leagues that are semi-serious (and money is on the line) and you've got spouses and parents/kids in leagues together. it can work ok, but people need to be mindful of how things might look to others.

 

Could you please tell that to JUM? These aren't WCOFF players we're talking about. It's a league with husbands and wives, and a matchup vs. her hubby that it appears she wants to win; So I don't really understand this whole notion that the appearance of propriety should be more of a concern to her than a lineup decision in a bragging-rights game.

 

 

BTW, I don't think this thread should dismiss all of the great articles JUM has written here all season, but you definitely owe this young lady an apology for making such bold statements (and were ready to bump this thread had you been "right"). What a horrible example that sets for leagues dealing with cries of "collusion" to bang the gavel whenever something happens that you don't agree with.

 

Actually, I'm really interested to know, would you have kicked the two out of the league? Replaced her lineup? Alot of bold claims were made, but I don't see how you rule on something like this without doing far worse than the supposed unproven behavior that you're claiming to prevent...

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Could you please tell that to JUM? These aren't WCOFF players we're talking about. It's a league with husbands and wives, and a matchup vs. her hubby that it appears she wants to win; So I don't really understand this whole notion that the appearance of propriety should be more of a concern to her than a lineup decision in a bragging-rights game.

 

 

BTW, I don't think this thread should dismiss all of the great articles JUM has written here all season, but you definitely owe this young lady an apology for making such bold statements (and were ready to bump this thread had you been "right"). What a horrible example that sets for leagues dealing with cries of "collusion" to bang the gavel whenever something happens that you don't agree with.

 

Actually, I'm really interested to know, would you have kicked the two out of the league? Replaced her lineup? Alot of bold claims were made, but I don't see how you rule on something like this without doing far worse than the supposed unproven behavior that you're claiming to prevent...

With regards to the bolded...

 

I said this before and maybe not well but the end result wasn't going to make party A (you belived her) or party B (you didn't believe her) right.,.there is no being right HERE because everyone (party A & B ) has to make their opinion based off of assumptions...and we have a lot of assumptions here

Edited by keggerz
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You have got to be kidding.

 

You should know exactly what I mean there sky. There have been many, many far, far more (false) accusatory and even threatening posts than what Jumbotron posted here by a good friend of yours that you excuse and dismiss as readilly as this. Double standard. I can only assume you have an agenda at work here. There... I said it.

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With regards to the bolded...

 

I said this before and maybe not well but the end result wasn't going to make party A (you belived her) or party B (you didn't believe her) right.,.there is no being right HERE because everyone (party A & B ) has to make their opinion based off of assumptions...and we have a lot of assumptions here

 

As has been said here before, it is a far different thing to give her the benefit of the doubt than to assume she's guilty. One implies innocence until proven guilty, while the latter implies the opposite, that she must justify her innocence.

 

So when someone says "total collusion", no doubt about, then yes, I think that is far too strong of an opinion to have without an ounce of proof, and only your personal opinion to back it up... Claims that she's in the right, however, don't have to be correct, because they are mearly examples of how she very well could be justified, which is all that is needed to give someone the benefit of the doubt.

 

So unless you're saying you're in favor of McCarthyism...

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With regards to the bolded...

 

I said this before and maybe not well but the end result wasn't going to make party A (you belived her) or party B (you didn't believe her) right.,.there is no being right HERE because everyone (party A & B ) has to make their opinion based off of assumptions...and we have a lot of assumptions here

 

My belief is that a person is honest until they prove differently. Others here believe that a person is guilty even if proven honest.

 

I prefer my outlook.

 

I made no assumptions until as such time as she was slammed and called a cheater for managing her team the way she saw fit. The other side made an assumption that she was a cheater because she is married to her opponent. Don't believe I ever called her out..... just the person that stated that it was a bogus move and she was tanking and cheating and a liar.

 

And I guarantee you that if Johnson had even an average day this would have been bumped by jum.... just like he said he would do. Instead, since Johnson didn't you don't see hide nor hair of him.

 

And....this is NOT, in any way, shape, or form the thread of the year. It's an embafrassment.

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You should know exactly what I mean there sky. There have been many, many far, far more (false) accusatory and even threatening posts than what Jumbotron posted here by a good friend of yours that you excuse and dismiss as readilly as this. Double standard. I can only assume you have an agenda at work here. There... I said it.

 

Well, your assumption is wrong.

 

And if you are talking about who I think you are.... I haven't replied in a thread he posted in on the MB in years. I don't even read them. So I don't excuse or dismiss anything he may or may not have said. And this for a different place and time.

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Excuse me. I made the case that "married couples are not to be trusted" ??

 

Where did you get that from.? I posted an issue in our leagure and asked for "Advice". guess your are just as guilty of those you are acusing of jumping to false conclusions.... Unless you first sentance was made in jest, if so, than i take back what i just said.

 

but clear it up for me please.

 

 

Delusions...

 

think you may have missed this post since it was at the bottom of the last page.. but can you clear it up??

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I had all the information I needed. He called her a cheater and a liar. He said her being married to her opponent made her decision bogus. He character assassinated her and it was because she was married to her opponent. In fact, he flat stated that she was throwing the game. Even after her email was published here he continued to slam her.

 

He went out of his way to slam her and married people that play FF in the same league. And whether you like it or not.... he does represent the Huddle. We are not all equal in this forum. People like DMD, WW and the main writers on the home page that were brought in to publish information represent the Huddle. His slamming her and calling her a cheater and then stating his legendary gavel would be used on people like her is not something I want to see from a representative of the Huddle.

 

Those were the issues I addressed. He supplied all the information I needed.

 

The man has no honor, is of bad character, and has lost all credibility he may have had.

 

 

This :wacko:

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Delusions...

 

think you may have missed this post since it was at the bottom of the last page.. but can you clear it up??

 

:wacko: Na, I was just poking fun at you in the context of the thread, though I do think it's some supreme irony after you were kind of acting a jackass with your "offer"... You might have claimed it was in good fun, but to be honest it sounds like you didn't either didn't believe her, or wanted to take advantage of her "stupidity" too ...

 

But I have no ill regards towards you about wondering about collusion, since might have even been the case, but I do have issue with those who are ready to declare her guilty without any solid proof, rather than taking what she said at face value..

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Let me also go on the record as saying that I took much offense to the fact that my wife and I would cheat if we played in a league together .

That is one of the accusations I got from JUM's post " that married couples should automatically be considered cheats"

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this thread is funny. I think anyone would tell you all along that there was, say, a 30% chance TJ would outscore CJ this particular week. I don't see how hitting on the 30% changes the collusion dynamic one bit. again, not saying it was collusion, just that it was a situation tailor made for collusion to creep in, and then a decision to sit the #1 overall pick in FF for very mediocre other options -- it's just something that, when her team is playing for nothing, is predictably and understandably going to raise eyebrows.

 

this sort of thing is inevitably going to come up in leagues that are semi-serious (and money is on the line) and you've got spouses and parents/kids in leagues together. it can work ok, but people need to be mindful of how things might look to others.

 

This makes no sense. The whole point of this thread is that the outcome of her game with her husband would have an effect on who makes the playoffs. The reason we're having this discussion is because some people think she was intentionally trying to lose. So she wasn't playing for nothing. Furthermore, she was playing her husband. If you were in a league with your wife, would she play to beat you, or would she intentionally try to lose? And if it were the latter, and you knew about it, would you approve of her doing it?

 

I swear, this is just a breathtakingly stupid argument. It automatically assumes the worst in people. Now we're not even talking about collusion, we're talking about collusion "creeping in." And who gives a diaper dirt that CJ was the no. 1 overall pick -- it is now week 13, and the guy is having obvious problems fulfilling his potential. If it were some random guy benching CJ, it would be "ballsy," but if it's some guy's wife, then she should be "mindful of how it might look to others."

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:wacko: Na, I was just poking fun at you in the context of the thread, though I do think it's some supreme irony after you were kind of acting a jackass with your "offer"... You might have claimed it was in good fun, but to be honest it sounds like you didn't either didn't believe her, or wanted to take advantage of her "stupidity" too ...

 

But I have no ill regards towards you about wondering about collusion, since might have even been the case, but I do have issue with those who are ready to declare her guilty without any solid proof, rather than taking what she said at face value..

 

 

Thanks...

 

In retrospect the "offer" was in poor taste if nothing else. Wish i had never sent that. But i did not appreciate being called a "coward" cause i brought an issue to the commissioner that people we talking about. The coward reference really pissed me off so i pushed it

 

this was my responce to her league eamil, later i made the "offer" wish i left it there oops....oh well live and learn.

 

Patti,

 

i dont think i have ever been called a "coward" before in my life and i am certainly not going to start with a fantasy football league, if i can help it.

 

 

That being said...

 

Patti, thank you for your explanation..

 

i apreciate your starting line up

, things are good...!!!

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After reading this thread I wounder how many would raise their hand if asked ,,,

Would they commit collusion with their spouse if they were in a league together ?

 

My guess is only (2) would raise their hand and that tells me why those (2) have so much trouble excepting that nothing wrong was going on with her decision.

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Talk about over reaction. Were some points of what JUM silly, even stupid? Sure... but to say a man has lost all credibilty and has no honor is an over reaction in the extreme. I would not play in a league he was commissioner of either. In this regard I'd say he's a little whacky at worst. To say a man has no honor... is there a worse insult?

 

I have rarely ever accused anyone of having no honor in my life time. That is for people who truely deserve it. This doesn't even come close to that category. Unbeleivable. The people going after JUM are starting to look just as silly... and stupid. Rational perspective has gone out the window. Any suicide bombers out there trying to find out where JUM lives, or what?

Edited by Rovers
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This makes no sense. The whole point of this thread is that the outcome of her game with her husband would have an effect on who makes the playoffs. The reason we're having this discussion is because some people think she was intentionally trying to lose. So she wasn't playing for nothing.

 

her team is out of the playoffs, his team was on the bubble. that's what I was referring to, seems fairly straightforward.

 

Furthermore, she was playing her husband. If you were in a league with your wife, would she play to beat you, or would she intentionally try to lose? And if it were the latter, and you knew about it, would you approve of her doing it?

 

I swear, this is just a breathtakingly stupid argument. It automatically assumes the worst in people. Now we're not even talking about collusion, we're talking about collusion "creeping in."

 

I played in a league with two brothers who would make iffy trades, and make iffy lineup decisions like this. it took repeat offenses, and individually they could all be kinda-sorta defended but ultimately it killed an otherwise good league. yes, bad faith "crept in". people are naturally on the lookout for these kinds of issues in fantasy leagues involving close personal relationships, and in my experience it is more often than not for good reason. and it's just so easily avoided in a situation like this one.

 

If it were some random guy benching CJ, it would be "ballsy," but if it's some guy's wife, then she should be "mindful of how it might look to others."

 

I think it's a pretty stupid move regardless of gender. if I was in a league with my wife, and I was playing her the last game of the season with my team going nowhere and hers on the cusp of the playoffs, I would be mindful of how it might look to the rest of the league if I were to make "ballsy" moves that week like benching my "unbenchable" stud for a hum-drum committee back. that is all I am really saying here.

Edited by Azazello1313
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Talk about over reaction. Were some points of what JUM silly, even stupid? Sure... but to say a man has lost all credibilty and has no honor is an over reaction in the extreme. I would not play in a league he was commissioner of either. In this regard I'd say he's a little whacky at worst. To say a man has no honor... is there a worse insult?

 

I have rarely ever accused anyone of having no honor in my life time. That is for people who truely deserve it. This doesn't even come close to that category. Unbeleivable. The people going after JUM are starting to look just as silly... and stupid. Rational perspective has gone out the window. Any suicide bombers out there trying to find out where JUM lives, or what?

 

And you don't think this is an over-reaction for you to lump in an entire group with 1 guy's opinion? :wacko:

 

I've even defended JUM as a writer, but his bold accusations were way out-of-line IMO, and worthy of being called out over (just like he claimed he would)... But nice try at demonizing the group who is arguing in favor of giving people the benefit of the doubt. Have fun defending McCarthy.

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Talk about over reaction. Were some points of what JUM silly, even stupid? Sure... but to say a man has lost all credibilty and has no honor is an over reaction in the extreme. I would not play in a league he was commissioner of either. In this regard I'd say he's a little whacky at worst. To say a man has no honor... is there a worse insult?

 

I have rarely ever accused anyone of having no honor in my life time. That is for people who truely deserve it. This doesn't even come close to that category. Unbeleivable. The people going after JUM are starting to look just as silly... and stupid. Rational perspective has gone out the window. Any suicide bombers out there trying to find out where JUM lives, or what?

 

American Heritage Dictionary:

 

Good name; reputation.

 

Principled uprightness of character; personal integrity.

 

A code of integrity, dignity, and pride

 

Webster-Merriam:

 

One whose worth brings respect or fame

 

A keen sense of ethical conduct : integrity

 

 

His comments and his use of the gavel have negated all of the above when referring to/about him.

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I have to say that this thread is one of the best ever started on this board.

 

It has clearly driven home the need for people to allow others to manage theirn own teams - in the draft, in trades, and in who they start and sit. It's unfortunate that a few still want to take the position that it is the correct thing to make others' decisions for them on the basis of only name recognition, ADP, and their own biases - and nothing more. It's further unfortunate that some chose to completely assassinate this woman's character when they made a poor and wrong analysis of her choice of players in a freakin' game. And it is a game.

 

Lot of lessons to be learned here. This thread should be a reference for all the other thinly reasoned threads started about collusion/cheating.

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